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How to own them "Op Tanks"


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Well, there have been many discussions about how the tanks are op lately. I think the main cause of this was pyre. Yes, pyre may have been slightly op at 5%, but 6% current hp is a smack in the face tbh. How to fix it? Make pyre do 3%, keep same cost. This way, pyre is viable, and it still does damage, but not signifigant enough.

 

Second, who is the hero that wtfpwns aa, and tanks? Tassadar.

With tass, if you go argus, pyre, foe, stun baton, chilling, bandits they cant kill you. You kill an aa in 5 seconds at most, and tanks in about 6 at most.

 

Honestly, if tanks are well... Tanking (gee who coulda guessed it), then why is there a big problem bout it? That is thier role. There is slows, and thats another thing that owns tanks, for the most part they are slower. Or you know, make an anti tank hero, like u made justicar.

 

#foreveralone caster.

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You dont need it... anyways with this build, its all spell damage. If you dont level up ur q, you can permastun.

 

why you wouldnt level up your Q? at lvl 7 if you rush this skill you can farm like a mofo

 

 

^ post 1 and 2 are pretty bad builds for tass

 

interesting

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If the other team goes all tanks and you are an AA hero, you just need to use some common sense by looking at the fact the only damage the tank heroes will be doing is from feedback from items like barbed and electric mantle, plus whatever their abilities do. If they have any aa gear at all themselves it will most likely be pyre which does spell damage.

 

This means you want solid DPS, but very high spell resist and a little bit of leech (darwins suffices).

 

At a minimum you will want taser and sliptyde on an agility AA build and if necessary get a parallax as well. Your remaining AA gear will probably be timesplitter, pyre, and darwins. Those are the exact items on an agility hero that you want to own heroes like Micro or Drake with 6k health and quite a bit of armor. Of course these heroes will have solid armor and spell resist themselves, but you still will do farm more net damage to them as their defensive gear wont be doing much to you, nor will their abilities. Of course they can get grav edge, but that item simply does not synergize well in a tank build as it gives neither health, spell resist, or armor, nor an active that does anything to make you tanky.

 

On a strength hero doing an AA build, you will probably want electric mantle and parallax and perhaps taser too with your remaining AA gear being pyre, lightning rod and darwins and if you didnt get a taser, axe as well.

 

If the other team is all AA heroes you may want a different build, but the way to beat tanky heroes with AA heroes 1v1 is good health, lots of spell resist, and some leech. Taser is also absolutely necessary if you are a melee AA hero against heroes like Justicar, Micro, or Drake or else you will simply get owned every time you engage them.

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At a minimum you will want taser and sliptyde on an agility AA build and if necessary get a parallax as well. Your remaining AA gear will probably be timesplitter, pyre, and darwins. Those are the exact items on an agility hero that you want to own heroes like Micro or Drake with 6k health and quite a bit of armor. Of course these heroes will have solid armor and spell resist themselves, but you still will do farm more net damage to them as their defensive gear wont be doing much to you, nor will their abilities. Of course they can get grav edge, but that item simply does not synergize well in a tank build as it gives neither health, spell resist, or armor, nor an active that does anything to make you tanky.

This is good advice. You should work a Galactic Defender into the build, too. High weapon damage and spell resistance. The shields are also great.

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Tanks are owning because of the current game design with ridiculous defensive talents not because of certain item properties. Tanks engaging in combat is almost never an all in because of the ability to almost always even if stunned or controlled for certain duration to press the magic button and try to squeeze out with relative success. Squishies due to lack of hp or heavy defensive hero passives are suffering from gold loss during fights and are forced to play more carefully overall.

 

Changing Pyre wont fix anything u need to fix the talent tree.

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1 barbed counters all dps heroes. Pyre still does good damage, it just help if he has barbed. 2-3 tank items with op talents and a barbed means - that you have to get hp, get darwin, get some other stuff to survive. Right now most pubbers build tanks as tanks, most int heroes have lots of int, but most of dps have to go tank/dps. Cause its impossible to kill one tank without 3k hp and a darvin (2-3 items to counter one cheap item??).

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The tass build I usually like to run goes something like:

Ihan Crystal, Super Heated Mantle, Nitrogen Retrofit, Gravity Edge, Star's Fury. Then sell Ihan Crystal and you can get 2 situational items such as Lifetech Nanosuit (great item I don't see used too often), Parallax Generator, or Electric Mantle. Or a Pyre for DPS against tanks, Barbed to survive those AA heroes, Argus for better spell damage overall, or an FoE for even more slows. (illusion procs passives from any of these items I believe). Could also sell SHM towards the end-game.

 

Also a couple questions. Does Tass's illusion produce enemy shadows when using Shadowmourne?

And if Tass (and his illusion) have a Khyhadrian Absorber (or whatever it is), does the illusion regain the hp and energy from nearby units dying too?

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Owl even if I agree with the fact that people build AA heroes wrong and your build is a good suggestion, the problem that remains is that it takes a LOT of items for an AA hero to be able to do is job when heroes like micro/drake etc only need 2 cheap items to perform their job and counter you, and then they can buy luxury items.

 

So in a pub you can certainly find ways around barbed plating and other problems, in an inhouse good players will take advantage of the fact that when you have barbed+warp shard on micro (~4k gold), AA heroes basically have lightning rod and a component for a toer 2 item, meaning they can't touch you if you proceed correctly, and they can just use this timeframe to take every boss/tower possible and take as many fights as they can regardless of a lot of factors, which is imbalanced in my opinion.

 

tldr : yes people build their hero wrong but there is still imbalance that aggravates the situation

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Guys. I play tass alot different then most of you, this is spell damage build, and i see what i forgot, i accidentally changed an item. You can perma stun aa's, and then they just die from pyre and 220x3, and then tanks get melted.

@Hogwarts With this build i never lost a game....

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There is no discussion about tanking being OPs. Discussion is about how armor works now and devs took an eye there and increased some items based vs armor gears like Contamination/ Khali...

 

5 seconds to kill an AA could sound a lot depending on the situation.

 

@Op of course you can go with one or other item but BHM or SF is autospammed continuously.

 

I see Tass on 3 ways.

 

Tanky-hhybrid, Hybrid Dps-Caster or procc on hit.

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Guys. I play tass alot different then most of you, this is spell damage build, and i see what i forgot, i accidentally changed an item. You can perma stun aa's, and then they just die from pyre and 220x3, and then tanks get melted.

@Hogwarts With this build i never lost a game....

 

The AA build for tass I have used is similar, though I think you need to look at organic or leech for sustain because later in game your W leeching off creeps is not enough to keep you viable for all the damage you will take as a semi-melee hero. I think the core of any Tass stun baton build is pyre, baton, and bandits. Been a while since I used this build because tankadar with a SHC is what I usually use, but throwing in a BHM, sliptyde, and Darwins should get you to the attack speed cap with all the agility you have while giving you good solid DPS and sustain. Only problem with that build is initiation as you don't have a lot of speed to maintain chase (sliptyde is only speed item).

 

So replacing BHM with phantom menace might solve that problem and give you a great escape tool when combined with the speed boost of hyperarmor once you have dispatched your initial target.

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1 barbed counters all dps heroes. Pyre still does good damage, it just help if he has barbed. 2-3 tank items with op talents and a barbed means - that you have to get hp, get darwin, get some other stuff to survive. Right now most pubbers build tanks as tanks, most int heroes have lots of int, but most of dps have to go tank/dps. Cause its impossible to kill one tank without 3k hp and a darvin (2-3 items to counter one cheap item??).

 

While part of this could be true, there is an important issue we can't forget. Many of Agi items, or some good for them offers good dmg capability. Sliptide ( Spell resist), Galactic Defender ( Spell resist- Shield) , Darwin (Leech/ Health) and the natural way agi gives armor.Even items with good weapon damage or good weapon speed fits well on most of them.

 

By other part, Int heros get defensive items mostly in ways they don't increase his output dmg except some item.

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Pyre was nerfed because it was necessary on every AA carry due to the amount of damage and weapon speed you benefited from it. Pyre isn't as bad as everyone claim it to be, but its a lot weaker than it was. Things that get heavy nerfs are normally neglected by the community for awhile and then eventually brought back into play.

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Have you tried Lifesteal+Pyre+Gravity Edge+Star Fury/BHM? Word is you can't counter true damage.

 

Pending questions.

 

Does armor mitigate true damage? (No?)

Does true damage =physical damage aka does it trigger barbed plating? (No?)

Does Paralax remove the Ex Axe debuff? (Yes?)

 

If these statements are true then you might want to look into this... Midnight, Eliwan back me up with some math or something.

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Unless something else changed in 2.04 armor has 0 effect on true damage

 

It is however affecting crits atm in that crits are based on damage done not potential damage (Does not change the fact that crits still deal bonus true damage which is unaffected by any resistances, merely lowers the amount of damage. Crits are about to be buffed though and barbed is getting nerfed)

 

True damage does NOT trigger barbed plating that would be OP

 

I believe paralax will remove executioners, but who cares.....it pops like every 10 seconds or so

 

 

More importantly you are missing the best item to combine with gravity vs tanks Sunflare gun ;)

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Have you tried Lifesteal+Pyre+Gravity Edge+Star Fury/BHM? Word is you can't counter true damage.

 

Pending questions.

 

Does armor mitigate true damage? (No?)

Does true damage =physical damage aka does it trigger barbed plating? (No?)

Does Paralax remove the Ex Axe debuff? (Yes?)

 

If these statements are true then you might want to look into this... Midnight, Eliwan back me up with some math or something.

i was litterly typing the exact same thing then bam u posted it first :/
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