barwick Posted February 24, 2013 Report Share Posted February 24, 2013 Seriously, how do you counter the lurker? He does asinine dps, in an aoe, while running around faster than the speed of light. You can't silence him to stop his ulti, as near as I can tell you can't stun him to do the same either... so... help me out here. I've played 2 pubs in a row with the most horrid teammates ever, against a rancor/lurker pre team each time, and I feed off their teammates all day long, but eventually, there's absolutely nothing I or my team can do against the aforementioned speedy gonzales who kills everything around him and you can't run away from... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pchacker Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 I think lurker is currently op and will probably be nerfed soon. They found this out in the tournament as well I think. It seems as though in pubs though his opness becomes more severe due to less teamwork and feeders, allowing lurker to dance around single targets all day long. As for how to counter him, tosh is a good counter I think, because of his high stun capability. It allows you to keep him in one place for your team to focus. Having longer ranged heros (nova etc) get a force of entropy and a timespittler will help greatly as it will reduce his time and slow him considerably, making it easier for your team to focus him. Get toxi and grab a foe, timespitter, nitrogen and stun batton. For ultra super slow lurker. But generally if you have that bad team mates and they have a fed lurker, it is usually gg, that is if your feeders dont leave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
residente Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 ive never met a good lurker in a pub so i cant give u a sure counter, the average ones ive seen were easily countered with a shc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doom Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 One does not easily counter lurker. Ironsights 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeeeend Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 Tosh can´t do anything vs lurker due to its aeo just raping the spectres. Not counting the obv blindside chainstunulti because then i could name zera ulti as a perfect counter or a jakk with 100 mines stacked. Foe+timesplitter on a aa hero with spellbuffer is a good way. But even then 1 trollax and you wont stop him anymore. I think changing his ulti from toggle to autocast(like toxi w, but then a X seconds duration aeo) would be a huge difference because silence will block autocasts. The only thing is then you have to enable and disable autocast each time. Rem 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuparu Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 I have the counter to lurker. What doesn't Cain counter with his E + Masamune + Time Splitter (and the SHC/FoE for the lulz)? :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rem Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 A lurker with a shc active every 18 seconds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 One thing to counter a good lurker player: A prayer. Or team dive him all at once, you should get him with him coming out with more kills, but I'm sure it will work if you keep team diving him. If they build perfectly (caster tank) there is no fighting it whatsoever, lurker is just like that, a bit OP, and when I say a bit, I mean quite a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazySoldier Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 One thing to counter a good lurker player: A prayer. Or team dive him all at once, you should get him with him coming out with more kills, but I'm sure it will work if you keep team diving him. If they build perfectly (caster tank) there is no fighting it whatsoever, lurker is just like that, a bit OP, and when I say a bit, I mean quite a bit. frodo or bilbo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironsights Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 Drake seems to do ok so long as he has a team. His high spell resist lets him stay clowe long enough to get off the pull-boom combo and the team kills lurker while he's stunned and burning. But yeah, lurkers super speed with endless ulti is broken as hell. Lettow 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furystorm Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 zera > lurker. zera with assist owns him completely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divinesashi Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 Lurker broken man. Broken I say. Ban lurker Diipadaapa 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hashem Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 Give him a speed nerf when his time scale increases with W. The problem seems to be is he gets to be too fast to stop. I've played as Crackling versus Lurk and still was barely able to attack him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heimdallr Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 I just love lurker stomping agi chars....pubs of course, where people will never abandon the all out dps builds....tanky caster lurker can rofl them lategame....I don´t think stuns necesarily should stop his ulti, but direct SILENCE should so taser could be viable....I mean....SILENCE IS the counter to spellcaster nukers other than that people are really underestimating tanky builds this days...spell resist + ultihitting random spots means you live a lot....and the gravity edge he gets just means you need LIFE as well...you know...organic/FoE + lifetech, electric mantle, the shield item active + the spell resist allows for some more tanking really, as lurker you relly on timescaling for speed and to compensate for random hitting spots by hitting them all faster...you will be getting close to enemies to keep them on a certain portion of your ulti area cause if you dont you will likelly not hit them much...EVERY ITEM LURKER GETS TO DAMAGE is one les item FOR TANKYNESS....that being said....lurker cannot get infinite ulti and damage and tank it all.....it has to get in, hopefully kill something and then out....if it doesnt kill then he needs to stay longer and take damage/get pulled, etc... I know not all dps heroes can do a tanky hybrid, but for those who can pull it off its not thaaat bad....but by going all dps it becomes a quickdraw contest, just like with agi carries when they fight each other...if you cant win the quickdraw then you gotta make sure you can take the bullet before you shoot your own (makes any sense?)... people who love to play int heroes will agree with me that theres a point, specially on pubs, where if all enemies get tanky enough you become worthless....you are better doing a full support job by that time if you have no other means of damage or different build options...SO, the thing is...how many dps agi heroes you see sacrificing their dps for...spell resist and life? lol...I know they dont like the idea, but in this game just about every character is gear counterable....and there are only 6 item slots so you cant counter all characters AND be usefull...theres are items for dps, for spell resist and physical resist, and supporting utility, etc...being a game revolving around endgame aa carries it is underrdtandable that people dont want to lose their dps and their anti aa carrie resist in exchange for spell resist and life, but with lurker thats how it is....at least when I´ve played it I separate enemies into 2 categories.....those who dies fast and those who dont.....I enter with the team, kill the die fast ones, and then I gotta stay out but near until someone else helps with the tanks(usually aa heroes or someone with pulls and disables to help isolate one of them)...killing drake is almost impossible once he is built cause he has....you guessed it....life and spell resist(and natural spell resist incorporated)...people are just reluctant to get the right items Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muto Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 I have stated before and will state it again: Lurker needs to be reworked to be primarily an AA hero instead of a spell-caster hero. To make lurker better suited as a INT hero was a poor design. As to countering him, lurker isn't that hard to beat with solid stunning ability, burst damage, or good slows. As long as you can keep him from running, he's pretty easy to kill as he doesn't have the range most INT heroes do. I wouldn't call him OP, just annoying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akanna Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 Honestly most pub people find Lurker UP because he is so easy to feed on for most of the early to mid game. Not many people play him, and its pretty rare to see anyone play him well. Use TS wards/Scanner and silence/stun to feed on him whenever he tries to AA in lane. He wont be able to run and you get free kills all day long. I am not sure how he fares in IH but I believe they banned him (which is interesting bc he should be way easier to kill with good teammates). I imagine that teams protect him better though in IH making it harder to feed on him all game. My guess is your problem is with his perma ult and speed mid-late game? The trick is to lock him in one place(easier said than done I know). His ULT damage is totally random so you can easily burst him down before it kills you if he cant go anywhere. Focus on slowing and chain stun/snaring him. You can stack on a ton of slows with nitrogen+FOE+ all the diff hero slows+stuns + initiation/lockdown moves. Also make sure to silence him so that he cant just stun/timescale burst his way out. A good lurker will get parallax, but even then you should be able to harass and feed on him for quite a bit of the game.Once he actually gets enough items that its hard to "pin him down" I would try having several people get sunflare guns, so that you can take large chunks of HP away at a time whenever he is close. A lot of lurkers favor SHM to augment ult damage which puts him in SFG range for sure. Also have your AA's get timesplitters ;) You can also pin him in with heros like Cow, Nova, Null, Cyprus, and/or use Tassadar to force him to a particular spot for easy targeting or walling Personally I look forward to every game with a lurker in it because it means I can rack up some easy kills in the early-mid game. Best lane against him is Raynor + Any good AA (darpa, cain, nova, etc). pop a scan, silence him while burrowed, then proceed to rape easily due to mark. Can also rape him with rory or anyone else bc he literally cant move while silenced if he was burrowed, so skill shots are 100% every time and spells never miss. You can pretty easily keep him from laning and make it take a VERY long time before he becomes any kind of real threat. So much so that you end up feeling bad for lurker players very fast..... Lurker really only becomes an issue later in game / in teamfights and you should be able to feed a ton on him to offset that ;) I won't speculate as to whether his ULT is "balanced", but I will say that he needs it to offset the fact that any kind of AA play is super bad (which is unfortunate given how he well his attacks proc lightningrod, stunbaton, explosive etc), and not being able to attack without being burrowed + not being able to move while borrowed is a HUGE handicap that often leads to his death. Without that speed and ult he would be completely worthless in game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydie Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 3 Counters: 1) Ctrl F4 2) F10 Q 3) Alt F4 PS: True story Zera > Lurker, Darpa (silence) > Lurker, Cain > Lurker, Leo > Lurker, Akasha > Lurker, Medic >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lurker (I don't actually believe this but I'm just going with incorrect consensus that medic is OP to please the noobs). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mus Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barwick Posted February 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 . So I'm not alone. Zera, that makes sense, kinda... his ult still works even in bubble right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rem Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 correct just at a much slower rate Im not even sure if lock box temporarily stops his ulti, but if it does its the only thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
residente Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 really, as lurker you relly on timescaling for speed and to compensate for random hitting spots by hitting them all faster...you will be getting close to enemies to keep them on a certain portion of your ulti area cause if you dont you will likelly not hit them much...EVERY ITEM LURKER GETS TO DAMAGE is one les item FOR TANKYNESS....that being said....lurker cannot get infinite ulti and damage and tank it all.....it has to get in, hopefully kill something and then out....if it doesnt kill then he needs to stay longer and take damage/get pulled, etc... I am the EU king of the INT heroes and I can tell u that you can get damage and tankyness at the same time. That's just my build in no particular order Ihan (stacked), Argus, Gravity, Yamato, E.Mantle, Menace, Retrofit(1)/Parallax(2) Talents: hp/hp.reg/movement - cdr/mana.reg/movement 225 STR, 225 AGI, 495 INT, 44'48 armor, 20% spell resist (+base spell resist), 3+2'49 speed (+W when u use it), 3400 hp, 3465 mana, 228'27 wdamage (all potions) if you change retrofit for parallax ur stats dont change so much 250 STR, 250 AGI, 455 INT, 47'97 armor, 20%+18% (+base spell resist), same speed, 3100 hp, 3185 mana, 242 wdamage i change between that 2, or even mantle depending on the game, but the point is that im pretty tanky, high hp, high armor and spell resist, and i also have a very high spell damage... with yamato active, i deal 842 damage on obelisks and I can have my ult on for 2 minutes without being out of mana, with almost 15 mana regeneration per second EDIT: after reading my own post I must say that its a waste of money buying all potions unless you are fully itemized, becasue you will spam your W constantly and your 10 minute potions will last 5 with luck Eliwan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitechgunner Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 Meh. Hybrid Lurker is my favorite. Tankyness, weapon damage and good INT. Sunflare Gun or Shrapnel Cloak, Nitrogen Retrofit, Explosive Refit, Gravity Edge, Yamato, Ihan stacks then trade Ihan for Argus. Explosive and Nitrogen give massive DPS steroids, Sunflare Gun or Shrapnel Cloak, depending on which you need - steamrolling? Go for Sunflare Gun. Having trouble? Shrapnel will solve your problems. Grab Gravity Edge next since it improves Explosive damage too, then the Yamato for even bigger Timescale boost, and finally Ihan for great late-game INT scaling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mynhauzen Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 drake is a good counter. btw residente, you're so humble :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
residente Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 drake is a good counter. btw residente, you're so humble :D Well i am or i am not the EU king of int heroes? <3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mynhauzen Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 there's no such thing, as a EU king of int :D stop making up honors :D Really the only reason why Unix is so good right now, is because no one played him for such a long period of time and now no one knows how to counter him. Today had a game vs 9 0 unix, played with nova, that dies in a second. Got stun button, killed unix 3 times in a row, he wrote something like: Nova OP and left the game. Comon, unix is so bad right now compared to unix v5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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