Inhouse Autobanned Heroes

[residente]

I want to start asking to the devs, and to the community in general, why we have new heroes each patch if the last ones are always banned?

Lets start with the 3 last heroes: Geneva, Feral and Akasha:

 

IH community autobanned Geneva becuase of his insane healing power, and because of her ability to keep people alive in the worst situations.

Then, why we got Feral, if Geneva wasn't welcome? It makes more sense to balance and fix the hero untill the community unban it from the auto banned list.

Afaik, Feral is auto now too, like Akasha, and Null and Starscream...

 

They all should be balanced before making new heroes, our hero pool is very low compared to LoL or Dota. If I'm not wrong we have over 40-42 heroes and a significant amount of them are banned.

 

We should just flobing fix them once and for all, so we can have a higher hero pool.

 

- Starscream: He is auto because he is bugged as hell, and he is too powerful for the early game. Super Heated Mantle double procs on him, Molotovs don't deal any extra damage on him, he can still fly over high terrain with enought right clicks on the ground, his talents doesn't work on the flying mode, and I'm maybe missing more bugs.

 

His Q is too powerful in the early game: The slow let your lane partner and yourself to rape anyone on the lane, they deal a lot of early-game damage, they cost almost no mana, and they are way too spammable. His heroic just let him to stay in the lane till he just wants to go shop.

 

I would suggest to reduce the base damage on the rockets, and increase the INT scaling, so if you want more damage, buy INT and you will lose tankiness.

 

- Null: Afaik he is banned because of his CC, his stuns and his forcefields. His damage output is not so that much unless you buy insane amounts of INT, but any other caster can deal way more damage with the same INT. His power (imo) rely on his stuns and blocks.

 

His Q should be changed. Only the first of the 3 missiles should stun, and the other 2 just deal damage. I kinda like his forcefields, but it seems that they are too powerful.

 

- Lurker: I don't rly know why he is banned, but I can imagine that he has 2 much AoE damage. His Q shouldnt deal that much damage: 300+50% INT is a lot for a AoE stun. It's true that, for example, that stun doesn't stop Unix's Brain Sap, but anyway is an AoE stun, with a pitiful cast time, almost nothing with your W.

I like stuns, and I like casters, but his Q is better than Null's Q atm. And his ult is insane in late game. It should have less INT scaling and more base damage, so in early game could be useful and in late game more balanced. We have to know what with the constant spam of his Accelerate, his ult gains a lot of power.

 

- Akasha: I guess this hero is banned because of his insane early game lane pushing and farming, and because of his double stun. His E seems to be just a random spell, because it doesnt synergize at all with the hero. It should give an armor buff to allies in it, so it would synergize with his heroic and with his ultimate. And it would make him more supportive to allies (armor+health regen). The damage should be just removed. His Q is ok for me, the AoE stun doesnt have that much range, Lurker's Q is way better, his second stun is very nice, becuase it has 6 range.

 

 

I'm an experienced player, but I will be maybe wrong with a lot of points. That's why I post this, to ask everyone why the hell is this happening and how we can finish this idioticy.

I don't want a new hero when I can't play Null or Feral in IH.

 

I would also like to talk about Parallax, that item is just countering everything. Rory is useless when the team get it for the stupid prize of 3600, you get 22-25(not sure) of each atribute, 18% spell resist and that idiotic Unique. It should be an active again. It should save you from Rory's molotov, but not from the debuffs will follow it in a teamfight. It also cloaks you, forcing (seriously) enemies to buy constantly Elixirs just because of that idiotic 2-3 seconds you are cloaked.

 

Any hero can buy it, because it's the Problem.Solver item: enemy get Taser? buy Parallax, enemy get Sharpnel? buy Parallax, enemy is slowing you? buy Parallax, Toxi/Egon/Rory/Brine/Raynor in the enemy team? buy Parallax.

 

Just make it active, with 30-45-60 second cooldown, and maybe a 4 second cloak instead of 2-3.

 

NOW GUYS YOU GONNA READ ALL OF THIS AND HELP ME AND THE COMMUNITY TO STOP THIS "MAKE A HERO THEN AUTO HIM" STUPIDITY

 

 

 

Sorry for the grammar mistakes and have a good day

[zeeeend]

ss is good the way he is just fix the god dam bugs.

 

null is also good imo he's been nerfed so god dam hard that he's on the upside of things. His dmg is low for int and slightly above average with ulti. The only thing he has is the forcefields but those been nerfed alot aswell. I think we need to try him ih and see that he isn't op anymore.

 

I think the problem with lurker is that if you get edge, phantom & nitrofit then moar int you can kite forever with you r on. Dealing endless massive aeo dmg which can't be stopped.

 

The problem with geneva for me is the ulti. Its like one ulti to counter all ulties. i.e. around lvl 9ish your carry gets lanced and ultied by drake, raynor marks and ultis, cain uses e+r, vergil uses ulti and dustin is charging his laser. This would mean instant death for anything at that lvl... but geneva uses r + q (e is optional) and the carry just ignores all the dmg and runs away at lightspeed. I think the ulti needs 85/90/95% resist not 100, because 100% is just to high.

 

As for parallax. The reason why its a passive and not active is simple, in previous versions you bought parallax to counter silence from taser but then the rancor would just blindside you and taser you before you could activate it.

I suggest a passive silence remover 30 seconds internal cd(removes a silence 1 second after its applied then cooldown for 29 seconds), and a active 4 seconds cloak + debuff removal 30 second cooldown

[Hogwarts]

up until yesterday this was the auto bann list

 

SS, Null, Doctor, Egon, Just a bus, Marine King

[FruitNinja]

Parallax should be active again but an exception should be made so it can be casted while silenced or stunned.

 

That should be fine.

[residente]

up until yesterday this was the auto bann list

 

SS, Null, Doctor, Egon, Just a bus, Marine King

 

I love Geneva, she is so pretty... but its absurd how she can keep everything alive.

 

Egon <3 Geneva 4ever

[VasyaKot]

parallax is shap coz its random make it active with the same cd and duration and it will be fine.

[Doom]

Make parallax remove silences every so many seconds, but not affect other debuffs..... if you want a debuff imunity item, make it something completely different, possibly an upgrade from parallax, for huge sums of money.

[Revolution]

parallax is shap coz its random make it active with the same cd and duration and it will be fine.

 

By shap I hope you mean amazing? Parallax is extremely good right now. And if it becomes an active it will most likely have 30 seconds - a minute CD.

[Doom]

Any hero can buy [parallax], because it's the Problem.Solver item

Actually, Problem.Solver doesn't need Parallax, he is so badass with his range 10 AA and stealth, that he can kill any major debuffer, such as Rory and Egon before they even get close :P

[JustBooom]

Parallax:

1. Make that item cost like 5k so not everyone (even dps) will consider buying it. Everything else remains the same.

2. Make it active -> removes all the debuffs for 2-3-4 seconds. Same price. Cooldown of 45

3. Increase the iternal cooldown to like 30-45 seconds or make it autocast on silence/slow with let's say 20 seconds cooldown.

 

Pick one of these 3 and this item will be definitely less op than it's now

[BestZeratul]

Null : I think an easier fix is to increase the mana cost of his spells relative to his mana pool, especially early mid game where he can get all of his spells off extremely easily and it pretty much guarantees a kill on most heroes (especially once he gets a blink his initiation range is huge, and he can initiate extremely safely because of his skillset). So if all of his skills are so potent there should be a punishment when null fails to use them properly (other than wait 15 seconds to try again) and mana issues seems like a good way to fix it.

 

Lurker : the stun seems really OP, delay is way to small for it to be a "real" skill shot, and his damage and survivability throughout the whole game are way too high.

 

Parallax : I'm torn on this one since I assume making it passive is an attempt to create a counter to silences, but on the other hand it's just way too strong at the moment and kind of random. I think a possible fix is to make it trigger at the moment when debuffs are applied and then go on cooldown, functionning the same as Linkens in dota (go on dota wiki if you don't know the item), with the cooldown being obviously bigger than what it is at the moment. It would make it counterable by applying several debuffs at the same time, and would make it more reliable as a defensive item.

[akanna]

You could just stop banning things lol, pubs loves all the new heros it makes the game more interesting :P

 

But on a more serious note I am kinda confused why so many heros are being auto'd but there aren't any OP cries or balance threads going on them :/ I dont see recent threads for ANY of those heros in here...

 

As for your list:

 

Starscream I get, hes bugged like crazy, and probably will never get fixed (listed as super low priority)

 

But Feral? Really??? hes not a very good hero, and by no means OP

Sure its cheap that he can perma ult and that should probably be looked at, but the damage is so random that its not hard to burst him down as long as you have a way to stun or hold him in place (like null who you also banned) and if the damage is too much have a healer back you up while you go in to kill him (assuming you didn't ban them all too). About the only scary thing is his AOE stun. If he gets silenced while AAing he is toast all day err day cause he cant run or dodge anything.

 

Also very confused by MK since he got nerfed to hell, but I assume you just hate his new slow :/

 

The rest of the list I kinda get though...

 

With Null the damage scaling is a bit too high and his AA is way too good compared to other casters (range + damage). He def could use nerfs to both. I am a bit surprised that he is still auto'd though. I think he gets a bad rep for doing his job (stun + FF to trap people) but he got nerfed to 3 FF's in the recent patches so its not like he can box you in the way he used to. He was on the list pre nerf so its possible people just forgot to update things ;)

 

Justicar #$%@s up AA heros, so kinda a no brainer that IH hates him, he negates like 10+ heros completely. He is also really good at keeping you in 1 place for 2-5 seconds, which is pretty strong in organized team play. Def best to bait out his skills and jump him when his ult wears off if you have a pretty AA heavy team. I think you are wrong about his E tho, it actually synergizes very well since his overall role is to kill AA with their own damage or hold someone in 1 place long enough for your team to kill them. The AOE heal helps keep him alive and adds more damage to the people he is forcing to attack him, and with nitrogen retro it further slows them as they try to run increasing the odds your team can pick someone off. It also is useful to help position enemy heros just like maars red aura, and its the only vaible way he is able to creep effectively since he is a pure melee hero with low AA damage that would otherwise get shut down from creeping by any ranged harass (It melts creep waves with high INT, esp if you have SHM too). It is a much needed skill on him that should not be reworked.

 

You guys must really hate medics to ban both egon and geneva but I guess that makes sense too since the team without a medic is always at a disadvantage in teamfights. Not sure that any amount of nerfs will change that without making medics totally worthless though. Overall I have to agree though that geneva heal + shields + ult makes it very hard to kill someone, and that egon stacks can get old fast. Some scaling / damage nerfs are probably warranted on both of them. Genevea just got nerfed in the recent patches though, so I am not sure what more is needed. I am kind of surprised about Egons ban too since he got a lot of changes after the last tourney, and even EU didnt seem to mind him for the coming one (unless he was added and I missed it).

 

I was under the impressing that only SS and Null was autod as of like a month ago based on forum posts, kinda surprised to see so many names added to the list :P

[Spooky]

I have idea for Geneva ulti - make it channeling ability, so any kind of stun or silence would counter it and she wont be able to use both R and Q at the same time.

 

I don't know why Null is autobanned. His damage output isn't very high. I would say Null is more support hero than caster/nuker. However he is very strong in lane, his AA range should be reduced.

 

Akasha is pretty strong in inhouses, great initiator. Her Q need longer cooldown and E can be reworked into some passive

 

I agree with Parallax - really, this item should be active again. It stupid when silenced or stunned target can remove this debuff by himself.

[akanna]

I don't know why Null is autobanned.

 

 

- Lurker: I don't rly know why he is banned

---

I don't want a new hero when I can't play Null or Feral in IH.

 

Off topic I know but this has been bugging me for awhile now and I have a couple of IH related questions

 

1) Do heros on the banned list get taken off when changes are made to them? If you can't play them how do you know if the changes made them balanced again? (Null Geneva and MK all got nerfed recently)

 

2) How do you effectively judge the effects of changes made to a hero if you aren't used to playing with or against them because they have been on the banned list? Wouldn't this skew your judgement in deciding if nerfs/buffs were enough?

 

3) How do heros get banned (what is the process)? It seems like many IH people have no idea why certain heros are banned

[BestZeratul]

1) Yes.

 

2) By playing and reaching a consensus.

 

3) The majority. Obviously when they say don't know it means they disagree with the majority that wants them autobanned (it's just sad that I have to explain this to you when English isn't my first language and it's that obvious).

[akanna]

3) The majority. Obviously when they say don't know it means they disagree with the majority that wants them autobanned (it's just sad that I have to explain this to you when English isn't my first language and it's that obvious).

 

I was about to rephrase that but you already caught it, I meant to ask how is it decided (the process) not who

Obviously its a majority thing or it would never be honored, but if someone was going to add a hero to the list, whats the process?

Is it saying Hey I think X hero should be banned for ABC reasons, then people argue, and if enough people online at the time agree there is a vote announced for a later date so everyone gets a chance to chime in? Or is a vote made based on whoever is on at the time and challenged later if people disagree?

 

Everyone isn't on all the time, so I was curious how decisions that affect the entire community are made as I don't IH atm and am trying to learn more about it since I may jump in from time to time.

 

As for that last part:

 

It's pretty easy to assume you could have a busy week or two, and show up to IH one day and be told a hero has been banned without knowing why, and even if you don't think someone is OP, you should still know the reasons that were given for the ban. I don't know = I wasn't told why it was banned ;)

 

You are correct that English is my first language, read Residente's post again and see where he very plainly says "I really don't know why" and "I guess its because of". There is no other way to interpret that than to think he has no idea why Lurker and Justicar got banned. If you know, but don't agree you would say X hero was banned because of ABC reasons but I don't agree with them, there would be no need to guess :/

[BestZeratul]

The autobans are discussed regularly so it is kind or a non-issue (I'm not playing regularly but at least that's the way it used to be).

[neogeo]

micro with paralax is just retard

[zeeeend]

Some players want to auto egon because he lags not op

[Hogwarts]

Some players want to auto egon because he lags not op

 

egon is really strong if your team is ahead, you pretty much cant lose a game if your team is ahead in early mid game and you have an egon,

 

But if your team is behind an egon is not going to make your team op etc..

[Ironsights]

- Starscream: agreed...so many bugs and that Q seems to be always on and is devastating early game. Fix the bugs, see how he plays, and balance him.

- Null: null used to be absurd...now he seems pretty balanced. Not sure why he would be on your ban lists?

- Lurker: Lurker is op because he is the fastest thing in the game and has an endless ultimate that can be built to deal pretty sick damage and cannot be truned off. A LOT of his problems could be fixed just by making silence/stun shut off his ulti, if only for a few seconds.

- Akasha: I'm really torn on akasha...on and of himself, he isn't (she??) too overwhelming, but mixed with another stun or a pull (or god forbid anotehr stunner AND a pull) akasha makes it impossible to escape...very very frustrating to battle against, but I'm not so sure I'm willing to call it OP.

 

anyway. justa pubbers perspective on your list.