falling behind!!

[Alkuren]

Hey AoSers

 

i have finaly managed to get back into the game after a week! it was like shooting up when i saw that login screen go though!!!!

 

anyways, i have noticed that i am constantly falling behind in the mid game on exp and income. i alweays mange to get 1 or 2 kills before lvl 6 but post lvl 6 i flail around stuggeling to keep my income and exp up

 

anyone got any handy hints for me?

[God]

farm neutrals

[Rem]

Depends on the role of your character, and how your playing, If your playing a burst caster, once you hit 6-7 you should be ganking at least every other wave. If your playing a tank/support try to stay in lane and farm creeps, while calling for ganks and helping set them up. For the carries, farm.

[Alkuren]

im usually playing either nova or feral i find i dont fall behind on feral as much due to his ult really its more for nova that im falling.

i have been experimenting with the build but standard is leech into pyre then entrop, barb and matsu but always feel a bit squishy.

[Qlx]

Well well I don't really get your question.

 

If you're behind in money -> Neutral Camps

If you're behind in levels and theres a big creepwave -> Creep

If you're useless otherwise -> Aeon

 

You don't get lots of exp by ganking all the time. You have to stop for some farming from time to time.

[Alkuren]

thanks qlx

[Psyght]

you just need to focus on ALWAYS being around XP, I mean if your waiting to gank a lane and standing in the forest, farm neutrals. if your getting owned 2v1 in your lane, stand close enough to the creep wave to atleast get the xp. little things really add up, as long as you focus on consistently being around xp

[Apocalyptic]

You mention being behind, and you talk about kills. Just so you know kills are not really that important in AoS. Yes, they are nice, but for most characters you should not really even go for early game kills unless you see a good opportunity. Definately don'f focus on them except in special situations. Nova especially needs to farm farm farm. Getting out of the "I need to get kills to get ahead" mentality is probably the best place for you to start IMO. Stop looking at how many hero kills are on the scoreboard and start looking at the creep kills. Thats much more indicitive as to how a player is doing and thier skill level.

 

Pushing towers and getting creep kills are the two most important things IMO.

[SourDiesel]

Don't have all the information here, but I'm going to go ahead and hazard a few guesses and then offer recomendations. You should never have a problem keeping up with Nova. She's easy to play and easy to farm with.

 

Based on your emphasis on kills, I'm betting that you're focusing too much on killing heroes right out of the gate and not enough on last hitting units. In lane, you're probably chasing heroes that you have no chance to kill, moving around to gain positioning vis-a-vis enemy heroes rather than taking free shots at the creeps, or spending tons of time waiting on an ambush for a gank that may or may not materialize.

 

Early hero kills are worth 180-250 minerals (unless it's first blood). That's the equivalent of 6-10 minion creep kills or 4-7 creep camp kills, which are ridiculously easy to get with Nova. On top of that, respawn times are so short at low levels that you barely slow the opposing hero down at all and don't open a large enough window to really push a tower unless you eliminate multiple heroes at once. Through level six, if a hero kill takes more effort than killing 11 creeps, you've made a mistake by targeting the hero. After six, you need to use your judgement, but you should always keep the opportunity cost of a kill in mind when you go for it (could you have gotten a tower instead - worth about 3 kills with a team of 5? or 30 creeps?). Never forget, the goal of the game is to destroy the enemy artifact, not to have the best KDR.

 

Next, there's the question of your talents. Most beginners spec totally offensive. This isn't terrible, as haste can offer a lot of late game value, but it gimps your start in a game that often comes down to which side snowballs faster. The quickest way to fall behind is to spend too much time healing in the pool or dead. Personally, I like going 2-3-1 with Nova (attack speed, leach, armor, health, zeal, and move speed). That build offers a high degree of mobility allowing you to jungle efficiently right off the bat with bonus health, armor, and faster movement between camps.

 

Finally, your item choices. Pyre is designed as a tank killer and it's value is highest when enemy heroes have the most health. Early game, enemy heroes don't have a lot of health yet, consequently pyre is generally not a good chioce as one of your first couple items and is better added down the line. I like to stack a couple Duran's Machete's (two to four, depending on how the game is going) to start because it dramatically improves farming efficiency, makes you more durable, and opens the door for more effective early ganking.

 

I'm not going to worry about the experience end of your problem because generally minerals and exp go hand in hand. If you're racking up a lot of creep kills and avoiding death, the experience will take care of itself.

[Revolution]

You mention being behind, and you talk about kills. Just so you know kills are not really that important in AoS. Yes, they are nice, but for most characters you should not really even go for early game kills unless you see a good opportunity. Definately don'f focus on them except in special situations. Nova especially needs to farm farm farm. Getting out of the "I need to get kills to get ahead" mentality is probably the best place for you to start IMO. Stop looking at how many hero kills are on the scoreboard and start looking at the creep kills. Thats much more indicitive as to how a player is doing and thier skill level.

 

Pushing towers and getting creep kills are the two most important things IMO.

 

Hero kills are worth like 300-500 gold... Thats like 3 waves of creep and getting every last hit money-wise.

 

@OP

If you want to keep up then get a kill whenever possible and farm neutrals until there is a tank wave.. Tank waves are worth a lot.

[SourDiesel]

Hero kills are worth like 300-500 gold... Thats like 3 waves of creep and getting every last hit money-wise.

 

@OP

If you want to keep up then get a kill whenever possible and farm neutrals until there is a tank wave.. Tank waves are worth a lot.

 

This is wrong. Hero kills give cash based on level. A level 1 kill is worth 180 minerals unless it is first blood at level 6 it's around 255 per kill. They don't get over 300 until around level 10.

[Revolution]

Even still a kill is worth more than a creep wave.

[Climax]

jungle + gank 25 min and u will be ahead of enemy by 3 level or so

[SourDiesel]

Even still a kill is worth more than a creep wave.

 

Yes. And if you can get a kill you should almost always take one.

 

But, rookies frequently don't understand the game well enough and fall into the trap of focusing too much on hero kills too early. An experienced player can look at a given situation, estimate the enemies life, escape routes, and countermeasures and then quickly evaluate the chances they can get a kill. A rookie in the same situation may be unfamiliar with the enemy heroes capabilities or unaware of how much damage they are capable of actually doing.

 

I see a lot of new players waste time going for kills that have an extremely slim chance of actually happening. Many new Nova/Shadows will spend multiple waves sitting close to the seige tank camp on either top or bottom waiting for a gank that never happens. Other rookies spend a lot of time walking around creep waves trying to maneuver to attack an enemy hero rather than taking the free cash in front of them. It's also common to see rookies walk all over the map to wherever they think the weakest enemy hero is at or take so much damage from early agression that they're forced to spend multiple waves portaling back to the pool. By the time a kill actually materializes, it's taken too much time to be worth it.

 

A lvl 3 Nova with two machetes and good kiting can kill the thor camp, the bat camp, and the seige tank camp on the way to the short lane and be back just in time to have only missed a single wave. That's worth 325 minerals and a lot of exp - much better than the 210 minerals you would get if you spent that time setting up a kill, and it doesn't depend on the enemy making themselves vulnerable.

[dutch]

Stop focusing on getting the gank. For some reason, once everyone hits ~6 everyone is gank crazy and will stack up 4 in a lane waiting for some fool to walk in and die. There's no reason to unless someone is off farming where they shouldn't, solo and overextended in a lane, etc. Someone said it before... focus on getting the XP and last hitting creeps. This game is all about slippery slopes so if you fall behind on a few waves you are at a large disadvantage. This disadvantage may not be noticeable in your average pub game, but if you play enough sotis you will see countless heroes getting away with ~100 hp just needing that last hit to die. You escaping or not hinges on whether or not you got those extra 2 creep waves.

 

There's no need to be overly aggressive, and this comes with experience. Going for the gank has these outcomes:

 

1. You get a kill and survive (+xp/mins)

2. You get a kill and die (+xp/mins, but fed other team xp+mins)

3. You don't get a kill and survive (minus creep xp/mins)

4. You don't get a kill and die (minus creep xp/mins, fed other team xp+mins)

 

And now consider not dying is the absolute prime consideration in this game, especially early on, how many of those outcomes look attractive to you? Of these outcomes, only ONE is ideal. In every other situation, you've either lost out on XP, money, or time and are behind. This is looking at it in a vacuum... now, lets look at the context - say you died to their carry early game. This becomes a slippery slope very very quickly, especially in pub games.

 

You have NOTHING to gain from risking big to get one measly kill early-mid game relative to the opportunity cost you are sacrificing, ESPECIALLY considering the risk vs. reward. See the above outcomes again... its one thing if you are towerdiving to kill the last surviving hero at lvl 18 and you have three teammates to clean up the base. It is another thing altogether if you help feed their carry a double kill at lvl 5 and now they can afford that first nice item which may or may not mean the difference between them raping your team in a teamfight and getting away versus dying. I see sotis as a game of incremental benefits and marginal utility, and if you sacrifice that to the other team for the mere chance of being up 200 gold while you could have done so PLUS have gotten more XP by just towerhugging and killing creeps, you WILL lose games over time. That's not to say never towerdive or gank, but if you are having trouble by falling behind, you need to be conservative first of all. Knowing when to gank versus creep comes with experience but if you haven't been playing for a long time you should always err on the side of being safe and getting creep xp and money.

 

In general, though, main one or two heroes for a long, long time that are suited to your playstyle. I've accepted that I am just bad with certain heroes, and I have been playing for ~3 years. Experiment with a few but force yourself to learn the strengths and weaknesses of one particular hero. This will allow you to best know when to dive, when to run, when to call B, when to call for ganks, etc. I know if I'm Erekul and I have that first bit of spell resist I can stick around a bit and dive to get that swarm burst off on that pesky raynor, or if I'm Nova I just need to press forward for that one last autoattack so I can Q + E out of there. If I'm playing random heroes I don't know if/when I can push or pull back which results in being + or - kills, and in a game of incremental benefits, marginal utility and slippery slopes this makes a BIG difference. Being able to abuse heroes who don't know their limits or the abilities of others is KEY, and you want to be on the proper side of that situation by knowing your capacities. See a lvl 6 Tosh with 4 spectres and you're lvl 5 past your tower? Run like flob...

[Revolution]

@Dutch

 

Playing safe is not always the best. Playing aggressive or passive depends on your situation at the time. And 4 people in lane for a gank is not bad.. Its called teamwork. Just push the wave and get a free tower.

[dutch]

@Dutch

 

Playing safe is not always the best. Playing aggressive or passive depends on your situation at the time. And 4 people in lane for a gank is not bad.. Its called teamwork. Just push the wave and get a free tower.

 

Exactly, its contextually appropriate. For someone who is new and having trouble falling behind, they should err on the side of caution. Nothing is black and white, and only with experience will someone be able to know when to be passive or aggressive.

 

I'd hope that any player with a brain knows that if they have 4 in a lane they can push a tower down. My point is that people like to STAY 4 in a lane for multiple waves because OMG GANKS, nevermind they are not getting any experience while the other two lanes are free for the other team to creep and push with no consequence.

[Revolution]

If the 4 players are staying in the lane then they have much better push power over the other team in the other 2 lanes. Just keep pushing down that lane until they have no choice but to come back to base.

[NoWaterJustIce]

But... I like aram :(

[dutch]

If the 4 players are staying in the lane then they have much better push power over the other team in the other 2 lanes. Just keep pushing down that lane until they have no choice but to come back to base.

 

you're missing the point.

[Revolution]

you're missing the point.

 

More-so I'm missing your point, which may or may not be correct.