Unix!

[thomulf]

Despite all the nerfs, reworks, etc, I think Unix is still over-powered.

We all know the basics of the unix issue. Now don't come telling me to l2play and buy spell resist; I have nothing against burst casters. The thing is, unix stands head and shoulders above any other caster: he's like cyprus, but with the addition of invisibility, infinite energy early game and infinite health late game, the abiliy to tank nearly anything with his ulti, and the one of the best pushing abilities in the game.

Unix is just one of those units: every map has them. They are implicitly known to be OP, but dealing with them always takes a ton of time, and often, the wrong things are nerfed, sometimes worsening the situation.

I think unix has a huge mix of traits, and we need to streamline the ones that have a positive effect on the game, while removing the ones that are stupidly abusable.

In fact, most of what has happened to Unix are nerfs to everything but his ulti, which is the main issue.

I think that we should at least triple the ulti cooldown, and remove the energy return. It's so stupid that you can focus him down, reveal him, chase him, but in the end, if the game is evenly matched, he will just ulti you again and again until you all die. I mean, where is the logic in an ulti which has a damage potential of ~5000 (average INT build, yamato, argus), of which you must usually endure at least 3 seconds (1500), which ALWAYS gives back more energy than you use to cast and has a cooldown of....20?

And don't tell me that unix isn't burst because his ulti is DoT, unix is a timescale hog so it's equivalent to a burst ulti.

To compensate for these nerfs to the ulti, keep unix interesting, and make him something more than an obnoxious W-R-dead carry, I think we could bring back the "health transfer" style ulti that can also give health to allies.

Ulti could have reduced cooldown when used on allies, similar to tassy ulti used on hallucinations.

[NoWaterJustIce]

Unix is strong but one stun/silence and he is done for 10-15 seconds. He has the problem of being very strong against some heros and useless against other heros, and it a semi organized team at least one of those heros is always there making him bad in team fights. All in all he is actually on the weak side on only on the strong side in very specific circumstances that dont happen that often.

[Ironsights]

Unix is easily countered by a single zap from taser.

 

AA carry and dont want to buy taser? Get stun baton and still slaughter unix.

 

Any silence or stun ends unix's primary threat, AOE deals with his pushing ability, and the new true sight wards offer a cheap way to nullify his burrow.

 

Really, how much weaker do you want him?

[thomulf]

Unix is easily countered by a single zap from taser.

 

AA carry and dont want to buy taser? Get stun baton and still slaughter unix.

 

Any silence or stun ends unix's primary threat, AOE deals with his pushing ability, and the new true sight wards offer a cheap way to nullify his burrow.

 

Really, how much weaker do you want him?

I know that everything in AoS is relative and counterable, but in a relative sense, Unix is too strong. I don't necessarily mean he is OP, I mean dealing with the fact that he is counterable by giving him a 20 sec CD on his ulti is the wrong way to approach the problem.

the ITs could get some spell resist (or some more spell resist, if they have it already). The ulti nerf would balance it out, and you would end up with a more stable hero.

 

I tested it out a few times and I don't think silence interrupts the ulti. Not quite sure though, I'll try it out again.

[Muto]

Unix is hardly over powered. His marines are pretty easy to burst down, all you need is a single hero that has a decent AoE. Because the health of the marines are a flat increase (doesn't scale with INT or anything) they tend to be fairly weak. His borrow is also useless by mid game because getting detection is relatively easy and it slows him down. His ultimate is even more worthless because it is so absurdly easy to counter it. Here is the list of some ways to counter his ultimate:

• Hero Stun
  
• Lockbox (either on him or yourself)
  
• Tazer
  
• Hero Silence
  
• Stun Button on AA hero.
  
• Spell resist
  
• Parallax Generator
  
• Teleport
  
• Warp Shard/Hadron
  
• Impact dial
  
• Miscellaneous spells (Boros' SS, Zeratuls ultimate, etc.)
  

There are very little heroes that can have their ultimate be countered so easily. If you know what your doing, unix should not stand a change against you. In addition, he is squishy enough that a good burst hero (like Cyprus) can easily knock him down within a few seconds if not instantly. By late game there is no reason that Unix should be capable of being a threat.

[Legacy]

bro... u realize Aa unix ridicoulously op compared to regular unix right?

[ShadowFlame]

Unix is easily countered by a single zap from taser.

 

AA carry and dont want to buy taser? Get stun baton and still slaughter unix.

 

Any silence or stun ends unix's primary threat, AOE deals with his pushing ability, and the new true sight wards offer a cheap way to nullify his burrow.

 

Really, how much weaker do you want him?

Actually, if I get a taser, unix does too. Then he tasers me, fungals, and ults like normal. Problem solved.

[Takeray]

Unix is a good hero as it is.

 

It is really risk touching him. I think he is balanced.

 

Though his ulti is really powerful It can be countered by many ways. Of course if you use it in right moment as right decision it can be a mortal one. Doing it one by one killing all only happens in Bad pubs ( I said BAD)

 

He has nice skills to defend and pushing lanes.

 

His natural burrowing skills forces enemy to spend money on detection, not being that hard is an increased waste even minimal.

 

Taser and SHC flobs Unix. Unix flobs a lot of enemies with them

[CapricorN]

Unix is ok. Yes, he is rather strong at start but after mid game he can't do anything but pushing. So many counters for him... So many heroes have stuns/silences/blinks. And you can get tasser, stun baton and SHC to make him cry and rage. The problem is, that pubers don't know how to counter him, they just rage OP!NERF.

Unix is ok, don't touch him.

[Hogwarts]

unix is not OP its the same situation with shadow, shadow is far far from OP but pubs cry OP because there greedy little shaps who dont build reactive and buy items to help counter heroes, there stuck in these tunnel like views of build orders and build for there own hero to max damage even on supports,

[akanna]

I dont think unix is OP but I do think his ult could use a slight nerf since the change of haste to timescale.

It used to be that unix would have to rush twin para to kill you off with his ult quickly, now he doesnt even need to do that because of haste, and with twin para its a crapton of damage. (esp after the buffs to marines too)

 

Truth is early game unix is pretty scary atm if you dont have a natural silence/stun ability cause any smart unix gets boundary scanner to kill off TS wards, and proceeds to feed on your weaker players left and right. Plus marines are stupid good at pushing early on. In the mid game if the enemy team is even halfway decent they will slaughter anyone actually targeting unix, making it very hard to pick him off. Again not saying OP, am saying ult could use a nerf early game since timescale synergises so well with it.

 

Late game unix struggles hard to remain viable because everyone has sight and or counters, although marines are always good for pushing.

So if anything unix is rather UP late game unless his team tanks hard for him, and or sets him up (like using lord Z or Zera to trap ppl)

[Ironsights]

"... dont think unix is OP but I do think his ult could use a slight nerf since the change of haste to timescale."

 

ummm.

 

to get that you have to have 4 out of 6 talent points in offense tree...as a spell caster. A caster with poor AA options (ie starsfury unix is out of the question).

 

IF they go that far out of their way to get to hit haste once everythree minutes...they are either a bad unix OR part of a carefully thought out premade lol.

[Psyght]

unix is not OP its the same situation with shadow, shadow is far far from OP but pubs cry OP because there greedy little shaps who dont build reactive and buy items to help counter heroes, there stuck in these tunnel like views of build orders and build for there own hero to max damage even on supports,

listen to hogwarts, he knows best

[neogeo]

omg "taser". sorry,"buy taser" - you can tend to say this hero is imba.

[TinyesTim]

Unix is strong but one stun/silence and he is done for 10-15 seconds. He has the problem of being very strong against some heros and useless against other heros, and it a semi organized team at least one of those heros is always there making him bad in team fights. All in all he is actually on the weak side on only on the strong side in very specific circumstances that dont happen that often.

Stuns don't stop unix's ult only a silence does. So in that he is OP.

[Hogwarts]

Stuns don't stop unix's ult only a silence does. So in that he is OP.

 

na any stun or silence stops the ult, any stun in the game be it zera planar or a stun baton etc... its a channeled ability

[Ironsights]

na any stun or silence stops the ult, any stun in the game be it zera planar or a stun baton etc... its a channeled ability

 

This is correct. Any stun, silence, or interrupt will shut down unix's ulti.

 

Without looking at heroes, items that can stop unix include:

 

taser

stun baton

small hadron collider

 

Two of those are under 2300 minerals. For less than 2300, you et stat boosts and the ability to protect yourself from unix's ulti. Definately NOT an OP toon.

[Eliwan]

I would like to point out an issue with both Stun Baton and Taser--

 

Unix's Fungal and Brain Sap both outrange those.

 

HOWEVER, if the Unix isn't amazing at landing Fungal Toxins that isn't an issue-- but sometimes you meet a Unix player who does that... what do you do then?

[residente]

but sometimes you meet a Unix player who does that... what do you do then?

 

change the lane until he finds me again

[Ironsights]

Fungal lasts only a couple seconds, and usually lands before the sap

 

you will still take some damage, but after fungal releases you you move TOWARDS unix and cancel his ulti, at that point killing him or forcing him to flee (made harder since he is silenced/stunned)

 

You will take some damage, but if you hvae any spell resist at all then you will survive the second or two of unix's ulti and be able to kill him off.

 

A tank will have teh health to have endured it, and probably spell resist.

A carry should have the leech to regain any lost health while murdering unix

A Nuker wont have regain per se, but should be able to counter blast unix easily enough

AoE casters...they might be in trouble.

Healers...well, both healers can out do unix anyway lol.

 

Don't get me wrong, unix is by NO means underpowered, but to call him over powered is ludacris.

[Eliwan]

Obviously, you have not seen Unix be very good at farming and having so much damage they kill you in about 5 seconds even if you're LZ.

 

Fungal lasts for 2/2.5/3/3.5 seconds iirc; and assuming it takes you 2 seconds to break the channel after fungal ends that leaves you with 5 seconds of Brain Sap, and Brain Sap deals... 70/110/150 [+80% INT] damage per tick, or something like that; right? Very early on, [e.g. lv 7] this is far more damage than an AA-Carry type hero has the ability to take; and also probably half of any tank's health at this point of the game. Especially if this Unix rushed for a TPI; foregoing even a Duran's Pendant [and thus relying on Lv1 Burrow and Lv1 Marines to not die]... which is totally do-able, having done it back when I mained Subterran. =V And I'm terribad at this game as almost anybody could tell you.

 

I can honestly say that I think Unix's early-game has been buffed to levels that makes him over-powered when he was being balanced for late-game [which he does OK in now]; so I would like to see a nerf to his Marines' damage; going back to having damage scale harder with levelling and nerfing base damage and his Brain Sap's range and Health recovery with the minor exchange of his Sticky Trail going back to Osmosis [Recovers 1% of Maximum Energy for units dying nearby when burrowed]...

[Hogwarts]

I would like to point out an issue with both Stun Baton and Taser--

 

Unix's Fungal and Brain Sap both outrange those.

 

HOWEVER, if the Unix isn't amazing at landing Fungal Toxins that isn't an issue-- but sometimes you meet a Unix player who does that... what do you do then?

 

lock box your self

[Banzaiguy]

Glancing through the topic, I see quite alot of the "it has counters" argument. The "it has counters" argument doesn't hold much water by itself. Unix's ulti could have 9000% INT scaling and silence/stuns/blinks would still counter it. Still doesn't make it even remotely close to being balanced. The question shouldn't be whether something has counters. It should be: Does this thing's counters offset its more powerful effects?

 

You guys really should be debating on whether his vulnerability to counters during his channel balances out the high damage, low cooldown and heal on his ulti. Or whether the slowness and squishiness of Marines balances out their high dps and cast range. Or whether the short cast time and DoT nature of fungal justifies its high aoe damage and powerful cc.

[WhaleTits]

lock box your self

 

drain will continue if you are lockboxed. you must lockbox the unix to cancel. same applies for vortex

 

the proper response is small hadron collider. either blink on the unix or blink away :)

 

 

anyways trying to convince ekcol to weaken unix's ult vs massive units (aeon and levi) so he can't just solo levi at lvl 11

[Ironsights]

Banzai brings up a reasonable point. So to that effect let me attempt to show how unix's ulti having counters is balanced in comparison to those counters.

 

Before that though, let me sayt his about his sticky trail...leave it! That has saved my slimy little backside so many times, lol.

 

Anyway.

 

Fungal does reasonably high AoE damage while providing a 2-3 second root. I see nearly no complaints about fungal, so will simply say it is a reasonable AoE skill for a caster and seems to be balanced.

 

The marines do pretty high DPS and have moderate spell resist. In the early game, this spell resist is enough to make them threatening, but by mid game most/all casters have enough oomph to slay them in droves. This in turn is countered by spreading them out, but spreading them to keep them alive reduces the number of them firing on a single target, reducing their effectiveness. They are also slower than death: a no-move talent no move rory can accidentally walk away from them, and I would not be at all surprised to see a tower side step them. Also, you can simply walk through them, meaning they are not particularly helpful at preventing escapes.

--> In short, the marines are easy to dispatch (or even jsut wait out) but are dangerous when allowed to push at towers or if you engage near a pile of them. Also note, they have to be controlled seperately from unix to be maximimly efficient, which is micro intensive (comparbly) and harder to do now in the new UI.

 

Finally we get to brain sap. This does do large amounts of damage, BUT honestly not near the damage of other "burst casters" Fungal-->Sap us no more and possibly less damaging than Cyprus's rocks-->tomb, rancor's cloak-->snipe, Erekuls ulti (for lethality) or raynor's marc-->ulti (again speaking for lethality) The healing aspect of the ultimate is what draws the most criticism, I believe, and that is because with it Unix has massive sustain. The trouble is, without it unix is helpless. He has slow base move speed, a terrible AA option, and is nearly 100% reliant on stealth and his spells. Furthermore, he is rather difficult to utilize in team fights due to his inability to engage multiple targets efficently, his channeled ultiamte making him a sitting duck, and his general squishiness meaning he gets blown away rather easily.

-->In short here, unix's ultimate damage is on par with other burst casters, his healing is offset by his high levels of vulnerability, and his deadliness against lone targets is offset by his relative weakness in team fights. Put simply, unix is a terrifying pusher, and decidedly weak in the late game.

 

There is one more thing that factors in to the cries of OP, however. Unix's burrow. Burrowed units are perma-cloaked (no timer) and are FAR harder to detect without detection than a cloaked unit. I can spot a cloaked ghost standing still, yet have no idea if unix is near me or not. This makes him frustrating, in that you are not paying attention, you think you are alone in the lane, and then boom you are fungaled, sapped, and dying. This makes him "pubstomper" and somewhat frustrating to deal with.

However, truesight elixers go a long, long way, boundary scanners are sort of usable if you know hes around, and the new truesight wards are VERY helpful in keeping an eye on dear unix, since he has no passive means of eliminating them without detection of his own.

 

To try and put this into perspective: if you claim unix is OP, is cyprus OP? Cyprus is faster, has better AA options, and a deadlier burst spell that with his passive is nearly as quickly thrown as unix's ulti (unix still faster, but not by that much). Furthermore, cyprus has far better escape and innitiation options. If you say cyprus is balanced but unix is not, please specify the differences, as these must be the parts you believe are OP. If you say they are both OP, well, perhaps you play too squishy :)

 

To sum it up, I do not believe that unix needs any changes really, ups or downs. He is a strong lane pusher and a reasonable nuker who is strong early, decent mid, and begins to falter late game. HE has reasonable counters that are affordable and not too damaging to an item build, and there are many heroes who can counter him without the need for items.

Unix is capable of being a "spell carry", and whiel easier to counter than standard carries, he is equally effective if not countered. Is it really overpowered for a spell carry to exist, when the spell carry has so many options to be countered and often items are not even needed to counter him, when to counter a traditional carry you need 3-4 items on a dedicated "anti-aa" player? Unix offers a different style of play, and demands you adapt: he is no more OP, and honestly much less OP, than any agi-carry but his true beauty is that if you DON'T pay attention to him, you will lose. Much like a shadow or a boros: they are perfectly managable if kept an eye on, but if allowed to roam free, farm and gank at will: you are in trouble.