[Doctor.Geneva] Katz's thoughts/ideas/stuff [Almost-Final] 1.76

[TheKatz]

Change log

 

Launch -- Posted 1/3rd of the way completed like a genius.

1.1 -- Edited small things/typos/etc.

1.2 -- Finished Skill Order section and added explanations.

1.2a -- Added spoiler code to make it easier to sort through.

1.2b -- Added a change log for you crazy people who would want one (and myself).

1.3 -- Sort-of-but-not-really finished skill section.

 

 

 

 

 

To get the disclaimer and such out of the way...

 

WORK IN PROGRESS (not really I'm pretty lazy and nobody plays this with me anymore and pub games suck)

 

Working on Dota stuff because Dota. I'll get around to adding an item build when I care enough to. Just ask other Geneva players or make your own; it isn't that hard to figure out how things work and how well they work.

 

 

Geneva is my favorite character so far, so I decided to make a short write-up about her. I'm by no means a good player; you shouldn't take any of the following as anything more than a suggestion and my random thoughts on the character and the game.

 

 

This character is pretty fantastic, so, yeah.

 

[Why things are

] (<--Link)

 

Combat Medic [Passive]

 

 

The Highs

1. Allows you to push creep waves or jungle effectively with minimal effort.

 

1a) This is helpful in lane if you're mid and planning on either leaving to gank another lane (lol) or are attempting a push-oriented team-comp. Even though she is just one character it would be silly to leave her alone to push, making you a problem in any lane you show up. I'll touch on this again for one of her other abilities.

 

1b) Jungling/Creeping isn't hard because you have free damage blocked at the start of each camp clear, and your auto attack forks to up to three targets at once.

 

This means you can have better sustain through your clears, make faster clears with 'aoe' damage, stay in the jungle longer to make a longer/full clear (or double-clear the same section of the map) before going back to base, enter a lane with respectable health levels for a gank (or just to pop in to heal someone without getting killed in the process if someone jumps you), and afford to buy a ridiculous variety of starting items without having to worry about sustain or damage.

 

 

2. Allows you to contribute to team fights better offensively.

 

2a) Spread damage can start to add up, given that your stats aren't horrible and people stay close enough to each other for the passive to proc multiple times.

 

2b) The passive shield, usually added up with the shield from your E, can spare you some time before you have to leave a fight. This gives you an extra amount of health healed to an ally, a few more auto-attacks in, a flare save, or another E to spread some more damage/shield your teammate(s). It all depends on the situation.

 

2c) The shield can also give you an extra bit of pseudo survivability when all it takes is a few hits to kill you during chases or near-death engagements.

 

The Lows

1. You are not a carry. You have other things to be doing.

 

1a) You have a damaging aeo shield echo/beam... thing, a channeled heal, a flare, and need to keep a close eye on ally health bars for your ultimate.

 

1b) Your DPS is usually going to be pretty ass compared to actual carries. Like Nova (lol).

 

 

2. The shield is extremely small without the addition of your E's shield.

 

2a) It gives you about an auto-attack or two before you start taking real damage. Basically, you're still squishy.

 

2b) No shield means no passive attack spread. All it takes is random aoe damage or an auto-attack to cut your already-weak dps.

 

 

 

 

 

Surgical Strike [Q]

 

 

The Highs

1. This is a damn good heal!

 

1a) Not only is it an immediate heal, but a heal over time AND a movement speed buff! The numbers aren't that bad, either. 70 initial health restored plus 30 each second over 6 seconds at level 1. 250 initial health restored plus 75 each second over 6 seconds at level 4. That is a 250 HP and 700 HP heal respectively (not factoring in the 40% INT ratio on the immediate heal and the 10% INT ratio on the heal over time) if you let it channel for the full duration. Geneva can easily say "Nope" to someone on her team nearby dieing most of the time... besides herself.

 

1b) The extra speed boost is icing on the cake. 30% is enough for chases to end sooner; your wounded ally gets away faster, or you spend less time chasing someone down as they retreat.

 

The Lows

1. Your heal is channeled.

 

1a) It is not hard to understand why this is a bad thing. The flat amount is nice, but it is usually important to get as much of the heal off as possible. One stun and it stops.

 

1b) You can't heal and move at the same time. Someone runs out of heal range accidentally, or you gank/get ganked. You're probably going to be left behind (unless you are at tower, I guess), and you cannot help chase after you pass the baton to someone else to give them a speed boost. However, the latter isn't as important most of the time.

 

 

2. The scaling isn't enough to help it falling off after levels 7-10.

 

2a) 40% on base heal and 10% on heal over time means it isn't going to do nearly as much help after mid-match unless you have a pretty large amount of INT.

 

2b) Lower heal amounts for full channels means less incentive to spend the time sitting still and healing someone else in the middle of a fight most of the time.

 

 

 

 

 

Optic Flare [W]

 

Lazy Short version: It's a "meh" slow with a good blind. The blind is very, very wonderful. Have fun trying to get someone to sit in it, but it works as a good area of denial tool.

 

Feedback Armor [E]

 

Nuke + meh scaling + shields = this move. It does many wonderful things with mediocre values.

 

Jaws of Life [R]

 

Target takes no damage for X amount of time. I don't need to say how good that is... but I will. Burst mages or AA carries keepin' you down? flob that. Hit R, save a life/lives.

 

 

 

[skillbuilds]

 

Prioritize R first. Always. This isn't debatable to me. Other than that, there are quite a few ways to go about leveling this character. Leveling up what is relevant to your current situation is the best course of action.

 

Babysitter

 

 

Standard/Full Support

(Short): Q, E, W, Stats

 

(Long): Q~E~Q~E~W~R~Q~Q~E~E~R~W~W~W~Stats~R~Stats~Stats

Max heal by 7 or 8 and FArmor by 9 or 10. Get an early point in W for the utility and ignore it as long as you can before getting stats. You can get the points in stats before maxing out W if you really feel like it.

 

Harass the other people in lane, but don't do it when they're near creeps. Your disengage is ridiculously strong, so don't be afraid if someone gets handsy. The best way to make the people you are laning against leave your carry alone is to make yourself the immediate problem. Don't just charge them down, but make them regret coming too close.

 

 

Combat Medic

(Short): Q, Stats, E, W

 

(Long): Q~Stats~Q~Stats~Q~R~Q~Stats~E~E~R~E~E~W~W~R~W~W

Max heal by 7 while alternating with stats. More stats = more hurt + better health and energy pool + regen.

Substitute the third stats boost with an early W for the utility if you think you'd need it (which is usually the case for me).

 

You can actually argue that you can switch this order with the one from "Standard/Full Support" and vice-versa. This build is focused around auto-attack damage and a higher natural energy pool for when you finally manage to get some items. This allows you to spam your E even harder when engagements start to pick up in pace.

 

 

MOAR PAIN

(Short): E, Stats, W, Q

 

(Long): E~Stats~E~Stats~E~R~E~Stats~W~Q~R~W~W~W~Q~R~Q~Q

Please don't use this. This is just a silly build to milk as much damage as you can out of things. W has more base damage than E, but has shapty scaling in comparison if you can't get someone to sit in the cloud for the entire time. Lasts for 3.5(?), 20% per second for W. Your E has a flat 40%, which is arguably better most of the time.

 

So basically max W first if you have a good slow/stun that lasts about as long, or max E if you can't make people sit still for a moment.

 

 

 

 

Mid

 

 

Farm

(Short): E, Q, Stats, W

 

(Long): E~Q~E~Q~E~R~E~Q~Q~Stats~R~Stats~Stats~W~W~R~W~W

Substitute the extra levels in heal for stats if the other player doesn't harass properly. Put an early level of W where ever you feel like it.

 

Not much to say here, really. E is going to be your main damage tool in lane and you can use it to farm easily. You level your Q so you don't have to go back to base because of having low health after a fight, or to patch up after repeated harass. If your opponent doesn't bother to harass, or happens to just push the lane mindlessly, put points into stats so you can last-hit easier/keep back the tide of creeps.

 

 

Level and Gank

(Short): E, Stats, Q, W

 

(Long): E~Stats~E~Stats~E~R~E~Stats~W~Q~R~Q~Q~Q~W~R~W~W

Max your main damage skill first, then begin to leave your lane to help others around levels 6~7.

 

E for nuke, stats for auto-attacks. Get your early point in W before you start ganking if you don't feel like you will have enough CC to kill someone in the other lanes. An earlier level in Q might not hurt, either, if you want to be more helpful to the other lanes instead of yourself.

 

 

!Full Push!

(Short): Stats, E, W, Q

 

(Long): Stats~E~Stats~E~Stats~R~E~E~W~W~R~W~W~Q~Q~R~Q~Q

You're going to be auto-attacking most of the time, so you're going to want to level stats as soon as you can. Leveling them later just diminishes the return.

 

Geneva is ridiculously powerful at pushing lanes. Her auto-attack splits to three targets without sacrificing damage, Feedback Armor damages enemy creeps and shields your own, and the siege tank can be healed when taking turret damage so it can get a few more shots in! Throw that in with ridiculous survivability and the other team will have one hell of a problem.

 

 

 

 

Jungle

 

 

F$@% my Teammates [Time=5:45]

(Going for better clear time)

(Short): Stats, E, W, Q

 

(Long): Stats~E~Stats~E~E~R~E~Stats~W~W~R~W~W~Q~Q~R~Q~Q

Fully selfish build. You won't "need" the heal, and neither will your teammates! Wahahaha!

 

The order I take when most of my teammates aren't worth healing (they're being asses), or I want to go for Tough Kid items.

 

 

"I guess I can care about people other than me." [Time=6:00]

(Short): E, Q, Stats, W

 

(Long): E~Stats~E~Q~E~R~E~Q~Q~Q~R~W~W~W~W~R~Stats~Stats

Less selfish build.

 

E+Stats for a good start. Taking another ability is pointless because it hurts your clear time by so much due to energy running out, or having to purchase items to compensate for the increased energy usage. Gank and stuff after level 6 so you can dive safely.

 

Full Roaming Support [Time=Who cares?]

(Short) Q, E, Stats, W

 

(Long): Q~E~E~Q~Q~R~Q~E~E~W~R~Stats~Stats~Stats~W~R~W~W

 

 

 

[Talents]

 

So far I take 4/2/0 jungling. Might, Bloodthirst, Fury, and Veteran from Offense; I take Fitness and Integrity from Defense.

[Eliwan]

I would always max E first in lane as it is both a lane pushing skill by AoE and lane pushing skill by healing creeps =w=

 

Why would you EVER max stats before one of your other skills? Ever? I mean really, I don't understand.

[FruitNinja]

Everyone knows galactic defender geneva is the best carry in the game. 2s of invincibility followed by a 1000 health shield where you hit 3 people at once is pretty crazy.

[Legomancer]

My skill build for Geneva is this:

EQWEQREQEQRWWWSRSS

 

Her W's best ability is the blind. The damage and the slow is miniscule and the level 1 has a fast enough cooldown to be used sparingly. Leveling it up only really increases the mana cost compared to ability until late game so it would be a waste. E is definitely her best skill (besides ult). the shield can save you and your entire team, especially if you go all int. If you go all INT your Q and E are second and third Rs. Your blind can be good initiation or blocking too.

[TheKatz]

I would always max E first in lane as it is both a lane pushing skill by AoE and lane pushing skill by healing creeps =w=

 

Why would you EVER max stats before one of your other skills? Ever? I mean really, I don't understand.

 

Was going to get around to explaining that. See the latter part of this post for the other half of my reply to you.

 

When I put "Q, Stats, stuff" I meant "You power level Q while alternating with Stats unless you feel like you need the other skills before you start being active." Why? Stats are nice to have, make things die faster, and you can afford to get it out of the way if you aren't in lane. You don't need your Q for awhile most of the time, and your W is only there for utility. IF you are in lane and you don't want to push but still harass with auto attacks, it's also an option over putting more levels in your W or E until mid-game.

 

This is all pretty much personal preference, and like every guide ever made ever (that I am aware of), you are allowed to completely disregard things you don't agree with. You cared enough to politely ask me for my reasoning, so I appreciate it.

 

Edit: OH! I forgot to mention that from where I come from, pushing your lane usually equals pain for yourself unless everyone's doing it. Unless this is somehow turning into Blizzard All-Stars!™ or that's the current meta, I'm going to keep the "I don't want to get ganked as easily, even though I have vision" mentality.

 

Everyone knows galactic defender geneva is the best carry in the game. 2s of invincibility followed by a 1000 health shield where you hit 3 people at once is pretty crazy.

 

The very best, I have no doubt! Sometimes you get bored being the best and want to humor mortals with doing other things besides being the best. It's like Morphling support in Dota.

 

 

My skill build for Geneva is this:

EQWEQREQEQRWWWSRSS

 

Her W's best ability is the blind. The damage and the slow is miniscule and the level 1 has a fast enough cooldown to be used sparingly. Leveling it up only really increases the mana cost compared to ability until late game so it would be a waste. E is definitely her best skill (besides ult). the shield can save you and your entire team, especially if you go all int. If you go all INT your Q and E are second and third Rs. Your blind can be good initiation or blocking too.

 

While I was going to put all of that information in anyway, thank you for telling me. The W is a nice blocker/anti-initiation, but I find it awkward for initiation outside of "surprise!" ganks. The mana increase doesn't compare properly to the INT scaling or base damage, so it's a waste to level until you REALLY need to.

 

Healing at least 50% of a standard character's health with a Q mid-to-late game is pretty fantastic. However, I do not believe it heals fast enough to be comparable to her R when it comes to attempting to negate the damage of most of the cast.

 

Feedback Armor is wonderful if you can get multiple targets with it, but the less people inside of it the more mediocre it becomes. Getting all 5 people on your team during a fight is no easy task, and if it is then something is surely going wrong when it comes to positioning.

[Legomancer]

While I was going to put all of that information in anyway, thank you for telling me. The W is a nice blocker/anti-initiation, but I find it awkward for initiation outside of "surprise!" ganks. The mana increase doesn't compare properly to the INT scaling or base damage, so it's a waste to level until you REALLY need to.

 

Healing at least 50% of a standard character's health with a Q mid-to-late game is pretty fantastic. However, I do not believe it heals fast enough to be comparable to her R when it comes to attempting to negate the damage of most of the cast.

 

Feedback Armor is wonderful if you can get multiple targets with it, but the less people inside of it the more mediocre it becomes. Getting all 5 people on your team during a fight is no easy task, and if it is then something is surely going wrong when it comes to positioning.

 

If you are laning with a queen (which is op in its own right) when queen targets an enemy with banelings you can blind just behind them to slow them down for the banelings to hit and if you do it right they won't realize why their hp bar is at 25% until it's too late.

 

If you want to gank or if someone wants to gank your lane, you can throw your blind so the enemy does not know there is another hero in the mix. For example, biotron could be set up to gank your lane. You blind, he combos out before the enemy knows what hit him or her!

 

The same would go for any heroes with a blink. the blind is very disorienting and most players just run towards their base when confronted with a blind.

 

As for her in an all int build, she has 500 int or so by the end of the game (Argus, ihan stacks, gravity edge, nitrogen, you could go 2x or 3x argus for teh luls) she is healing 700+200+300=1200 health. While not equal to total invulnerability on tanks, it can save a squishy hero like rancor from getting wasted if he is in trouble. Her E does not need to hit all of your teamates, just the ones who are in the middle of the fight. I usually aim to damage enemies with my E because the shields last for so short a time that it's better just to get most of the enemies lower than keeping my teamates healthy with it.

[NoWaterJustIce]

If you are laning with a queen (which is op in its own right) when queen targets an enemy with banelings you can blind just behind them to slow them down for the banelings to hit and if you do it right they won't realize why their hp bar is at 25% until it's too late.

 

If you want to gank or if someone wants to gank your lane, you can throw your blind so the enemy does not know there is another hero in the mix. For example, biotron could be set up to gank your lane. You blind, he combos out before the enemy knows what hit him or her!

 

The same would go for any heroes with a blink. the blind is very disorienting and most players just run towards their base when confronted with a blind.

 

As for her in an all int build, she has 500 int or so by the end of the game (Argus, ihan stacks, gravity edge, nitrogen, you could go 2x or 3x argus for teh luls) she is healing 700+200+300=1200 health. While not equal to total invulnerability on tanks, it can save a squishy hero like rancor from getting wasted if he is in trouble. Her E does not need to hit all of your teamates, just the ones who are in the middle of the fight. I usually aim to damage enemies with my E because the shields last for so short a time that it's better just to get most of the enemies lower than keeping my teamates healthy with it.

 

queen and medic shouldnt be in the same lane :) and medic shouldnt build pure int.

[thomulf]

I would always max E first in lane as it is both a lane pushing skill by AoE and lane pushing skill by healing creeps =w=

 

Why would you EVER max stats before one of your other skills? Ever? I mean really, I don't understand.

New idea! let's make it up to 6 stat points levels, so I can go LZ without getting those useless 3 additional W levels, and have delicious +36 STR AGI and INT instead!

[Jaysi]

I go full support Medic, since her skills scale horribly with Int, you get Cooldown reduction and counter/support items.

 

Typical pub build for me with her is

-Nitrogen Retrofit(Hp, Int, adds more slow to flare)

-Ihan stacks(Hp and Int, perfect for Medic)

 

Then a whole bucket load of situational items, depending on enemy team composition.

-Parralax(For heavy CC such as Toxi, Egon, etc)

-Shrapnel Cloak(For AA)

-Chilling Artifact(For Melee AA, and CD)

-Barbed Plating(For AA, because you can amass a lot of hp)

-Taser(For casters, spell resist)

-Korhal Vanguard(For team support)

-Spell Buffer(For team support against spell damage/casters)

-Executioner's Axe(For killing heavy leech AA, Unix Ulti, Drake Ulti, Erekel's Q, etc)

-Electric Mantle(Spell resist, great against burst AA, Cooldown reduction)

[TheKatz]

I go full support Medic, since her skills scale horribly with Int, you get Cooldown reduction and counter/support items.

 

Typical pub build for me with her is

-Nitrogen Retrofit(Hp, Int, adds more slow to flare)

-Ihan stacks(Hp and Int, perfect for Medic)

 

Then a whole bucket load of situational items, depending on enemy team composition.

-Parralax(For heavy CC such as Toxi, Egon, etc)

-Shrapnel Cloak(For AA)

-Chilling Artifact(For Melee AA, and CD)

-Barbed Plating(For AA, because you can amass a lot of hp)

-Taser(For casters, spell resist)

-Korhal Vanguard(For team support)

-Spell Buffer(For team support against spell damage/casters)

-Executioner's Axe(For killing heavy leech AA, Unix Ulti, Drake Ulti, Erekel's Q, etc)

-Electric Mantle(Spell resist, great against burst AA, Cooldown reduction)

 

I thought this was my guide, not a discussion? Excuse me for being rude, but I'd like "suggestions" to be either put in another thread or PM'd to me. Thank you.

[Eliwan]

That happens in every guide. =w=

[TheKatz]

That happens in every guide. =w=

 

=w= but it's a guide, not general/character discussion. Don't we have sections for that?

[Eliwan]

No, generally guides transform into the character strategy discussion topics.

[TheKatz]

No, generally guides transform into the character strategy discussion topics.

 

I guess I'm used to things making sense in other forums. Oh well.

 

What happens if there are more than one build for a character? Does the space-time continuum explode?

[Spooky]

=w= but it's a guide, not general/character discussion. Don't we have sections for that?

But guide can be wrong or bad. So why its strange that players want to share their own ideas how to play specific hero? If everyone would create new topic to suggest different build it would be impossible to find a good guide for specific hero

[Eliwan]

If there is more than one build, the OP frequently edits them into the main post OR a brand new guide is posted-- depending on how different they are [the more similar they are, the more likely the former will occur]; leaving the OP as the "Here are the strategies" and then the rest of the posts as "here we are discussing the strategies and proposing new ones".

 

Then again; we could just destroy that. I mean, it's not like the playsotis.com norms come over.

[TheKatz]

But guide can be wrong or bad. So why its strange that players want to share their own ideas how to play specific hero? If everyone would create new topic to suggest different build it would be impossible to find a good guide for specific hero

 

If it's wrong or bad then make your own, or make a section for character discussion. Have you been on forums for other moba/srts games?

 

 

If there is more than one build, the OP frequently edits them into the main post OR a brand new guide is posted-- depending on how different they are [the more similar they are, the more likely the former will occur]; leaving the OP as the "Here are the strategies" and then the rest of the posts as "here we are discussing the strategies and proposing new ones".

 

Then again; we could just destroy that. I mean, it's not like the playsotis.com norms come over.

 

While that's a legit way to do things (have a general collection of 'accepted' builds for a character at the start of the thread while the rest is people posting and such), I didn't label this thread as such. I don't want to sound off as "This is my guide, get out"; I just think there should be other places to post and discuss such things. Also, if the game has any depth at all, then the builds that could work that aren't favored by the majority would barely get any light that way. Even if it was down-voted to hell when separated from the other guides/builds it would have more than a handful of people who knew it existed.

[Jaysi]

Like Eliwan said, generally that's how the AoS guides work... And the whole fact that it's a work in progress led me to believe that you wanted suggestions/ideas on it... And the slow development of the thread... I could pm you my suggestions but that doesnt mean you won't disagree, whereas if I post in somewhere public you can get a community's feel on my input, which I find better.

 

And it's not like I made a whole detailed guide about her, I just offered item recommendations...

 

And if you still feel that way afterwards I can remove my suggestion and just pm it to you or wait until you have a finished item section and then add constructive criticism if I find it necessary.

 

I apologize if you thought I was hijacking your thread in any way, shape, or form.

[TheKatz]

Like Eliwan said, generally that's how the AoS guides work... And the whole fact that it's a work in progress led me to believe that you wanted suggestions/ideas on it... And the slow development of the thread... I could pm you my suggestions but that doesnt mean you won't disagree, whereas if I post in somewhere public you can get a community's feel on my input, which I find better.

 

And it's not like I made a whole detailed guide about her, I just offered item recommendations...

 

And if you still feel that way afterwards I can remove my suggestion and just pm it to you or wait until you have a finished item section and then add constructive criticism if I find it necessary.

 

I apologize if you thought I was hijacking your thread in any way, shape, or form.

 

Nah, it's cool.

 

I labeled it as a WIP 'cause I was lazy and wasn't going to get around to finishing it too soon, especially since such things still require extensive testing (in my opinion). As in, it isn't finished yet. Thanks, either way.

[TheKatz]

Double post as a bump because of the headline/top part thing.