Executioner's Axe

[Nuparu]

Why 80%? Why not 90%?

 

80% becomes inefficient late game when everyone is fully geared and they proc darwins and have really high weapon damage. And if you can't stop an AA carry's leech, then said carry can easily murder your entire team.

 

Shrapnel isn't efficient because AA carries simply retreat for the 3 seconds and them come back. Barbed stops working when you can outleech the axe.

 

I'd propose boosting it to 90%. That'd stop people outleeching the anti-leech item or allow multiple people to proc the axe on one target, reducing the leech still.

 

Thoughts?

[Ironsights]

No. No one item should be THAT hard of a counter to entire builds.

 

Perhaps Executioners Axe could build into a better item, Say "Death Sythe" That stops healing by 90% and has an active that stops healing on hits 100% for some duration.

 

Another option would be to nerf leech, which is simply too potent imho anyway.

 

However, I do not beleive Axe should be buffed, especially given its current price, and making it cost more would make it too hard to get teh Axe/Barbed combo that is ultimately needed...

 

hmmm...

 

maybe I should sug such an item.

 

Death Sythe:

made from Barbed and Axe

 

Stops 85% healing and returns 50% damage as spell. plus some stats (strength, agility, and armor)

 

hells yes! Will have to design this.

[WhaleTits]

eh, with a parrallax, u still get to leech a fair ammount

[Chimera]

Death Sythe:

made from Barbed and Axe

 

Stops 85% healing and returns 50% damage as spell. plus some stats (strength, agility, and armor)

 

hells yes! Will have to design this.

 

That item would flobing rape agility heroes so much, maybe it would be too powerful though if both were combined. The armor you get from it would be huge.

[Qlx]

eh, with a parrallax, u still get to leech a fair ammount

Darwins & HoM are enough I think.

Even against Barbed & Axe...

[Ironsights]

That item would flobing rape agility heroes so much, maybe it would be too powerful though if both were combined. The armor you get from it would be huge.

 

to make it reasonable, perhaps the reflect should be an active. Or the anti-heal coudl be applied as a debuff, which parallax would defeat.

 

Or you coudl jsut get hive symbiosis, which so long as you are with creeps and/or allies, you will still have rediculous healing even with the 85% reduction.

[rayn]

id rather introduce a 2nd item with %healingreduction, so anyone would need at least 2-3+ items to counter heavy agi carries.

 

and since % work as diminishing returns another 80% from the resulting 20% wont be that overkilled and could be potentially be countered by hive symbiosis / balancer within creeps i.e.

[Aellectris]

If an AGI hero is building that much damage, they're probably squishy. If they're squishy, it takes a lot less than 3 seconds to kill them once shrapnel goes down. Also, Barbed+ExAxe means they die by attacking you.

[GhostEU]

IMO if executioner would proc on both weapon as well as spell damage, it would be more useful. Right now your team needs a ranged hero with decent attack speed PLUS an AGI carry to kill another AGI carry. Or your AGI carry with Axe vs their AGI carry.

 

If your team's only ranged is caster or tank or you don't have an AGI carry (noone picked or they dropped), exe becomes pointless beause you die without being able to hit them with it

[rayn]

suggestion:

 

change exe axe to proc on any kind of damage you do with skills or aa, but reduce the effect to 60% and introduce a new item that also reduces healing the same way by 60%, that should balance it out more ?

[GhostEU]

In that case my feeling would be:

1. Leech is calculated on damage AFTER mitigation

2. Axe works on all damage

3. Axe healing reduction reduced to 55%

[Nuparu]

If an AGI hero is building that much damage, they're probably squishy. If they're squishy, it takes a lot less than 3 seconds to kill them once shrapnel goes down. Also, Barbed+ExAxe means they die by attacking you.

 

Darwins adds like 400 HP and Force adds about 1000, add on 2 timesplitters, a hand of mengsk, and a masamune and they simply leech too god damned much.

 

I'd rather see exe axe buffed to 90% or built into an item which gives more heal deduction as well, or make leech calculate post-mitigation so you can't leech 400 health when you deal 150.

Edited January 19, 2013 by Nuparu

[Takeray]

Casters have burst to inutilize any kind of leech ( Kil before hit)

 

Shrink Ray acts like an Axe a bit too and there are int or agi heros who can get it like Jakk, raynor, erekul, Vergil...

[lolita]

Exc. Axe should be a component to a tier 3 item.The stats you get from it are pretty bad when you get to late game.

[Skydie]

I thought it was 90% before but got nerfed due to being too powerful.

 

EDIT: I agree with lolita, except we could make pyre more useful using a new tier 3 item with axe/pyre as requirements. Pyre atm is pretty useless.

[akanna]

Darwins adds like 400 HP and Force adds about 1000, add on 2 timesplitters, a hand of mengsk, and a masamune and they simply leech too god damned much.

 

I'd rather see exe axe buffed to 90% or built into an item which gives more heal deduction as well, or make leech calculate post-mitigation so you can't leech 400 health when you deal 150.

 

Im going to introduce you to your 2 best friends, executioners axe, and barbed plating. This build has 0 crits and 0 spell damage, as long as you have decent armor, you will reflect far more damage than you take, and you can shut off most of the leech. HOM is totally worthless in this build outside of movement and leech since the person already has max attack speed with 2 timesplitters.....in reality they should have SFG instead of HOM since they are not doing shap to any tanky hero with no spell damage and no crits...

 

But yeah barbed and axe....they work wonders, so much so that there should really be a tier 5 item that combines the 2 so I don't need to waste slots ;)

 

Also theres this thing called shadowmourne, its super strong vs AA

And this thing called shrapnel cloak, it stops 100% of AA and leech for 3 seconds, so as long as you can trap their movement its GG for them

 

Point is there are a million ways to own the combo you just listed because its dependent on leech and purely physical damage (pretty much any hero can get 50+ armor these days and only take about 20% of incoming physical damage)

If you are playing a tank you will watch them kill themselves if you get barbed and axe

if you are AA you will troll them with shrapnel and shadowmourne

 

 

Double timesplitter is kind of nooby, sure you get more damage and max attack speed, but uniques dont stack and you do all physical damage. You are better off geting 1 timesplitter, and something like archbound/prye, you still get max/near max attack, but you also do true or spell damage with your AA. Only time I could back double timesplitter is on Zera ;)

 

Also if you add up the cost of this, 4500(time) 4500(time) 5xxx(darwins) 3200(HOM) 5xxx(masumane) 3900 (FOE)

This game has been going on FAAAARRRR too long, with so many expensive items in their build, you should have been able to feed on them hard early on, or they had to have spent even more money on other items, sold them and bought these. Either way, this is a shapton of money, and game should end long before this (unless leaver bonus money was used)

 

(I forgot the exact costs of Darwins and Masumane but I know its like 5k ish)

[Nuparu]

My bad, replace 1 TS with a Hive.

 

Now, he leeches about 115% back. It's reduced to about 25% and that's usually more then enough.

[akanna]

My bad, replace 1 TS with a Hive.

 

Now, he leeches about 115% back. It's reduced to about 25% and that's usually more then enough.

 

Ok again, barbed and axe

 

I reflect 50% of INCOMING physical damage (you have no spell resist items and take almost all of it)

you leech 25% of physical damage dealt AFTER mitigation (meaning after my armor reduces it to like 20% or less)

With only 1 Time splitter, and no other attack speed items, you are nowhere near max attack speed, outside of the few seconds you have HOM bonus

I am also attacking you at the same time you are attacking me and you take 20% more damage bc of marasume

I too could have leech, and be leeching life back, and def have at least 3-4k HP to make good use of barbed

 

Pretty sure I know who is going to win that fight ;)

 

Axe trashes leech builds.....

if for whatever reason that isnt working get barbed or shrapnel

 

Hell given that you clearly have at least 20K or more in items, get SFG, to take 25% of their health away up front

 

Honestly I usually dont even bother with darwins or HOM anymore because axe is sooo cheap and totally bones them

 

Leech is stupid strong early to mid game, when no one can reasonably afford axe without hurting their build, but in the late game, leech builds are cake to stomp, and non leech builds with an axe are almost always stronger.

[VasyaKot]

Leech is stupid strong early to mid game, when no one can reasonably afford axe without hurting their build, but in the late game, leech builds are cake to stomp, and non leech builds with an axe are almost always stronger.

In late game, you will die before AAing because of insane crits and masamune.

And nowdays no one ever have a HoM in his endgame build, everyone gets just darwins for survivability.

Barbed does not reflect crit damage, and even the petty 15% leech from darwins (counting axe) is enough to tank barbed the amount of strikes you need to kill the enemy.

[Nuparu]

Ok again, barbed and axe

 

I reflect 50% of INCOMING physical damage (you have no spell resist items and take almost all of it)

you leech 25% of physical damage dealt AFTER mitigation (meaning after my armor reduces it to like 20% or less)

With only 1 Time splitter, and no other attack speed items, you are nowhere near max attack speed, outside of the few seconds you have HOM bonus

I am also attacking you at the same time you are attacking me and you take 20% more damage bc of marasume

I too could have leech, and be leeching life back, and def have at least 3-4k HP to make good use of barbed

 

Pretty sure I know who is going to win that fight ;)

 

Axe trashes leech builds.....

if for whatever reason that isnt working get barbed or shrapnel

 

Hell given that you clearly have at least 20K or more in items, get SFG, to take 25% of their health away up front

 

Honestly I usually dont even bother with darwins or HOM anymore because axe is sooo cheap and totally bones them

 

Leech is stupid strong early to mid game, when no one can reasonably afford axe without hurting their build, but in the late game, leech builds are cake to stomp, and non leech builds with an axe are almost always stronger.

 

And you forget the part where they still rape you because axe + barbed + sunflare leaves you with like NO hp and then they strike you 4 times and you die regardless and they walk out with most of their HP intact.

[GhostEU]

Axe is only useful if you can hit them in the first place and not just once, but constantly.

If they hit you before you hit them, they ignoe your barbed and see you in 1:20 when you respawn.

[thomulf]

Death Sythe:

made from Barbed and Axe

 

Stops 85% healing and returns 50% damage as spell. plus some stats (strength, agility, and armor)

 

hells yes! Will have to design this.

Inception. lol

 

How about +40STR/+35 AGI (focusing on STR because tanks like the barbed)