Suggestions to how to improve Terminus

[Muto]

Updated:

01/18/12 10:14 US central time.

 

What I would like to see on Terminus:

• Weapon effects ONLY proc on the primary target.
  
• Increase borrow and unborrow speed.
  
• Ultimate damage increased, but with 15 second time limit, 45 second CD and requirement that he must remain borrowed to use.
  
• Timescale ability replaced with a passive giving him a passive 6/9/12/15% TS increased while borrowed.
  
• Change (E) to a transport move that allows him to dig (teleport) to another location within 8 units with 25 second CD.
  
• Change (W) scaling to (+60% Weapon damage) instead of (+50%INT).
  

Reasons: The first change would be to make weapon effects only proc on the primary target. This would also make it so that while his heroic passive is still great for AoE's and lane clearing, it doesn't clear them almost instantaneously. There is the issue with items such as Explosive Retrofit procing on every unit causing an entire lane to be cleared in one attack. This would also prevent him from debuffing large groups and make his heroic passive a benefit, but not excessive.

 

The reason for the rest of the changes is to make him much more effective while borrowed, and stop him from running around with his ultimate and not doing anything else. While he would be very strong if you where near his borrowed, it makes him far more vulnerable when he's out and about balancing the game-play and bringing him back to what he should always have been.

 

By changing the TS to borrow as well as his ultimate he would be much more reliant on his heroic passive. This would prevent him from just chaining his never-ending ultimate while running in circles around the enemy, but also improve the bonuses of borrowing making it more desirable.

 

Finally, by changing his (W) scaling to weapon damage you make it more desirable to go in AA strategy and make him feel more like an Agility hero, something his is severely lacking with his current set up. The fact that you made the suggested build for an AGILITY hero based on INT (which is indeed the best way he's played ATM) shows a severe problem with the character's current design.

 

To compensate for making these borrow-only, you give him a transport and decrease borrow time/increase speed, making him a bit more interesting to play. This would allow him to move across the field easier and better chase heroes running away from him to do some damage before they escape.

 

These changes would nerf his lane clearing ability slightly, but are primarily designed to make the hero closer to what the original intent seemed to be, which was to make Terminus like the actual lurker from the original SC. By making this changes he would be far better suited as an AA hero and it would give him more diversity and dynamic in how he can be played.

 

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Thank you for reading my suggestions and I welcome any feedback or criticism you have to offer.

[residente]

• Weapon effects ONLY proc on the primary target. (That's ok because dps Lurker is useless compared with his spell damage power, so no one cares if he procs on the primary target or not)
  
• Make auto-attacking when borrowed reveal him for 2 seconds. (That would destroy his laning phase completely and ruin the hero, because you know, you would snowball in the opposite direction. His burrow is ok, you have retarded cheap x3 charges 120 scanners who will make him cry, no need to make him visible, he can't move while burrowed)
  
• Decrease borrow time, and give a 10% speed increase for 2 seconds upon unborrowing. (His burrow time is ok, because he can cloak, anyway if we add your past suggestions, a faster burrow time would not help at all, because enemies could just wait his AA and rape him fast, a 10% speed increase for 2 secods upon unburrowing wouldnt help at all, because 10% is nothing, and 2 seconds of nothing is nothing)
  
• Ultimate damage increased, but with 15 second channel time, 60 second CD and requirement that he must remain borrowed to use. (15 second channel time? that sounds stupid, with all my respect, if you are with your team pushing and the enemy team surprise you and the teamfight begin, in 15 seconds you will be dead 3 times, do you know what's 15 in game seconds? zera's bubble last 6, so imagine 15. and 60 second cd is retarded, because you sometimes use it just to clean a creep wave, or to kill an enemy that scapes, and you turn it off. In dota 2 Leshrac has the same skill, Pulse Nova, initial mana cost + mana cost per second, and you can turn it off and on whenever u want, so giving channel time, even 2 seconds and a minute cooldown would make him useless)
  
• Timescale ability replaced with a passive giving him a passive 6/9/12/15% TS increased while borrowed. (he is useless burrowed, in teamfights this hero just can derp around with the ult and stun sometimes, force him to burrow to gain passive time scale would flob him every teamfight, what you suggest would make the hero useless in any teamfight, if you have to burrow, your enemies have the perfect chance to take u down quickly)
  
• Change his consume ability (I think it's E) to a transport move that allows him to dig (teleport) to another location within 8 units with 25 second CD (that seems ok, but with your other suggestions this skill wouldnt change much...)
  

sorry for my bad grammar and i hope i dont offend u with my comments, good day

[Muto]

The major complaint with many of the changes is that he is useless borrowed, which is entirely my point! The fact that an AA hero who has to put up with the most impractical passive for the sake of "keeping the feel of the game" is only good as a spell caster completely defeats the actual intent of the hero. The suggestions I made where to make him actually viable as an AA hero by giving him some level of mobility and increasing the benefits of being borrowed. To your specific points:

• Making him revealed would not destroy his laning ability. As stated, most people have detection late and mid game anyways because you can cheaply get things such as TS. The only thing this would affect is his very early by bringing back down to a moderate hero. He can still remain safe by just staying a bit further back, he just would hit less targets with his passive. It changes the risk/reward system of him by making positions that clear lanes easier slightly harder to achieve.
  
• I'll concede that the movement speed increase doesn't actually add much to his game-play.
  
• The confusion around my ultimate suggestion probably came from my poor wording, what I meant to say was the effect would last for 15 seconds. I did not mean to make it a channeled spell. As to "clearing a creep wave" I think it's already been made perfectly clear that clearing waves is the LAST thing he struggles with. When you use an ultimate as a way of clearing creeps, it's a solid sign of a piss-poor ultimate.
  
• As to increasing timescale but making, this is an overall BUFF to his AA ability. Going back to beginning the point of these suggestions was to make him more versatile as an AA hero and offer suggestions to how they could make him closer to what they intended him to be.
  
• Changing his (E) would drastically change his game-play by, once again, improving his versatility as an AA hero.
  

All that said, you presented overall good critiques and i think you had good points with many of them. As a result, I will reconsider/revise some of my suggestions. Thank you.

 

Edit: Revised suggestions slightly and added clarification to the purpose of these changes.

[residente]

The problem Muto is, Lurker is not AA hero, his main attribute is just AGI, Vergil is not AA hero, but he is AGI hero too, you can build them dps, but they are useless compared to his spell power

[Muto]

The problem Muto is, Lurker is not AA hero, his main attribute is just AGI, Vergil is not AA hero, but he is AGI hero too, you can build them dps, but they are useless compared to his spell power

 

And that is a problem. If they are best played and designed to be INT heroes, then at least have the honesty to make them have INT as a primary. I have a problem with Vergil and Rancor being under AGI as well.

[residente]

And that is a problem. If they are best played and designed to be INT heroes, then at least have the honesty to make them have INT as a primary. I have a problem with Vergil being under AGI as well.

 

I don't think the same, a AGI hero can be caster, and a INT hero can be created as a strong carry, in other moba games you can see that, it's rly boring that because its AGI his only role is AA

 

I would like to see AGI supports, and INT carries, a bit of variety in this game

[Muto]

That isn't actual variety however, because as you stated these heroes can ONLY be played as an INT build. If you gave them the appropriate main state, the game-play would not "lose variety." While seeing AGI supports and INT carries could provide variety, taking an obviously INT hero and just pretending he's AGI is not the way to go.

[OrderSixSix]

...And then there's INT Shadow...