make abilities/actives that deal no damage do 1 true damage so you get assists for using them

[akanna]

In the current game assists are granted for being in proximity range of a hero that dies(roughly 8-12 units or so I think), or dealing damage in the last 10-20 seconds or so (those numbers are not exact they are my best guesses based on playing, the exact numbers are not really important to this thread though, what matters is that you get assists for having done damage recently or being near a hero when they die). Devs have confirmed both of these components to assists in other threads, I am not making this up/guessing about it.

 

Normally this doesn't create any issues, but some abilities and item actives (like debuffs and initiation moves) deal no damage while others do, and if you use one of the ones that deal no damage and you are not in proximity range when someone dies (either because you died or just aren't close enough), you will not get assists even though you helped in the fight, which is rather unfair. The best 2 examples of why this change is needed are Raynors Mark, and Tassadars Ultimate.

 

Its really really really frustrating when playing as raynor to cast mark on someone and have your team kill them before you can get into proximity range/deal other damage to them because you do not get an assist, it actually makes you want to wait to cast mark until you are close enough to silence shot etc so that you don't get screwed out of the money from an assist, which is essentially encouraging bad play due to a flaw in the system. The same goes for pulling someone to your team as tassadar (from a tower etc) and having your clone die in the process, its very frustrating because you do not get an assist since you never actually did any damage and your clone is no longer there, but without that pull the hero would never have died in the first place.

 

There are a number of other abilities and item actives that fit this problem area, things like Taser, Grunty's swamp traps, Impact dial, Lockbox etc that can all be used to aid in killing someone by keeping them from getting away but dont actually do any damage so you wont get assists if you aren't in proximity range when the hero dies. I don't think its fair to the people that take the time to invest in these items or use those skills to help someone that they do not get assists by default via a "token true damage", when often kills would never occur without it. Support items like impact dial/lockbox/taser are often bought by slower moving support heros who can fall behind in a chase and its not uncommon for the target to take off running after they are used on them and get chased down by your faster agi carrys (or get gang raped before you can really do anything). Obviously with Lockbox you can just stick around, but with impact dial you can push into your team without actually being near them. You could also get killed off by a different hero right after using the item, and have your team mop up the mess (again without you getting an assist). Also when playing a support hero you often are "fighting" multiple heros at once by supporting other heros, you may silence one hero with taser and use your skills on another, or impact dial/lockbox someone to trap them with some of your team and head off to help someone else. You shouldn't have to wait around and attack / stay near the person to get assists, when you've already helped with your items.

 

Shadows vortex was changed to do 1 true damage back in the day so that he would get assists for using it.

The proximity system was implemented for healer chars like egon so that they would get assists while healing the team.

There is no reason that skills like raynors mark, tassadars swap, and gruntys swamp trap along with items like impact dial, taser, and lockbox should not receive the same treatment. I am pretty sure there are other items and abilities that should also be changed, I am just posting the ones I can think of off the top of my head, since it would take me a little while to go through every item and hero to compile a full list.

 

I think the main reason people don't really think about this is that most debuffs and initiation moves actually have a damage component to them. So really the ones that do not damage put heros at an unfair disadvantage, and to fix this they should do 1 true damage as a sort of "token damage" to ensure people get assists properly when they are used.

 

EDIT:

I have posted about this before in various threads, and received a lot of support for the idea, but this is still an ongoing issue that really needs to be addressed

[akanna]

Sorry for the "wall of text" nature of this, It was harder than I thought it would be to explain things succinctly :/

 

List of abilities/actives that do no damage but either debuff in a way that aids killing significantly / help with initiation or keeping heros from getting away and thus should deal a token damage:

(Thus far shadows vortex is the only move that has been given a "token damage", and all of these add at least as much help as that move)

 

Abilities:

Raynors Mark (Q)

Tassadars Ult ( R )

Gruntys swamp traps (W)

Darpas Sonic Grenade (E)

Zeratul's Planar Void (E)

Hybrid MAAR savior aura (although to be fair it should just be reworked to be a resistance buffing spell for allied units for reasons listed in http://www.aeonofsto...__40#entry38479)

Erekul's Parasitic Infusion (W)

Null Field Disruptor (W) (would need to do a token damage when they run into it)

Garamond's Oil Slick (Q)

Rancor Scan (W)

 

Items:

Taser

Lockbox

Impact Dial

Boundary scanner

TS Wards?

Small Hedron Collider (not really necessary but for consistency should be included)

Darksteel Titan?? (again really only including for consistency)

 

I think debuffs are particularly important because they will persist even if you die (and thus no longer have proximity)

And initiation/escape prevention moves/actives because you can use them but not have a chance to do damage if the rest of your team kills

 

+ You can easily loose proximity via death or someone being pulled/running after you use one of these abilities or actives, so they need to do 1 token "true damage" so you don't get screwed out of assists

 

EDIT:

Not sure how implementable TS wards would be but I really think it would encourage their use if you got assists when people kill cloaked units using them (only for cloaked units though not any others). Maybe its just me but I want my ally to get some money if his ward lets me kill a unix/rancor/feral etc, and when other people use my TS wards to kill I kind of think "you're welcome wheres my cut?" If you think about it, without sight no one could get the kill, so it is a huge assist....

 

Boundary scanner should def count though even if TS wards are a no go because its 15 unit range and lasts 15 seconds (so you could die and your teammate can still kill them, and it can reveal units that aren't in your proximity range but are in a teammates range)

[residente]

Imo you should get assist for dmg and dmg+proximity. I dont understand why everyone can get "moral" assists

[akanna]

Imo you should get assist for dmg and dmg+proximity. I dont understand why everyone can get "moral" assists

 

Haha thats so not related, but that was implemented for healers since they are supposed to be healing their team and shouldn't have to stop and AA every hero in order to get assists in a teamfight.

 

I am not asking for moral assists though, but rather that skills and actives that significantly help in killing but do 0 damage, should do a token damage so that you get assists regardless of proximity. I also find the whole "you get a level for standing there even though you didnt help" thing to be silly, but I understand its original purpose.

[residente]

Haha thats so not related, but that was implemented for healers since they are supposed to be healing their team and shouldn't have to stop and AA every hero in order to get assists in a teamfight.

 

I am not asking for moral assists though, but rather that skills and actives that significantly help in killing but do 0 damage, should do a token damage so that you get assists regardless of proximity. I also find the whole "you get a level for standing there even though you didnt help" thing to be silly, but I understand its original purpose.

 

maybe if you stand near to the victim for, idk, 10 seconds, but i find funny that an ally is soloing an enemy and i just go ther eand get moral assist for nothing

[akanna]

maybe if you stand near to the victim for, idk, 10 seconds, but i find funny that an ally is soloing an enemy and i just go ther eand get moral assist for nothing

 

Agreed, but again not the point of this thread, this is a thread where I am trying to get them to add a token damage to abilities and items that dont have it so you properly get assists for helping in fights. Its not really fair that I can mark from 15 range with raynor, and you can kill someone before I get close enough to actually do damage / be in proximity bc you do 30% more damage, but I dont get an assist even though I technically did 30% of the work for you. Or that I can sac my clone in a tower swap with tassadar to hand someone to you on a silver platter, but I don't get an assist because I never actually did any damage and my clone isnt around for me to get proximity (cause it died)

 

Etc Etc

[residente]

Agreed, but again not the point of this thread, this is a thread where I am trying to get them to add a token damage to abilities and items that dont have it so you properly get assists for helping in fights. Its not really fair that I can mark from 15 range with raynor, and you can kill someone before I get close enough to actually do damage / be in proximity bc you do 30% more damage, but I dont get an assist even though I technically did 30% of the work for you. Or that I can sac my clone in a tower swap with tassadar to hand someone to you on a silver platter, but I don't get an assist because I never actually did any damage and my clone isnt around for me to get proximity (cause it died)

 

Etc Etc

 

I just wanted to add to your suggestion, that moral assist shouldnt be that easy to get, I agree with your purpose of the token damage anyway

[akanna]

I just wanted to add to your suggestion, that moral assist shouldnt be that easy to get, I agree with your purpose of the token damage anyway

 

Haha I like your addition but I feel we would loose that fight :)

[residente]

Haha I like your addition but I feel we would loose that fight :)

 

Sadly, but we dont loose anything trying it!

[jamescossey]

it was forgotten as well as there are times when egon is tryign to stand back out of enemy range healing allies. same when queen try heals teammate. those should get the token 1 damage to.

[akanna]

it was forgotten as well as there are times when egon is tryign to stand back out of enemy range healing allies. same when queen try heals teammate. those should get the token 1 damage to.

 

How would healing your teammate do 1 token damage to enemies???

I get that you could technically heal from out of proximity range and not get an assist (I think....seems like it wouldn't come up too much), but the token damage fix is really only feasible if you do something that actually affects the dying hero.

[Eliwan]

I know that in League, if a hero is affected by a heal effect in the last ~15 seconds any kills or assists that they get are also given to the one that healed them-- make the same for Egon's Q/E and Medic's Q/E/R. That might be a bit harder to do... but I think it's possible. v=

 

Or alternatively, you could have each of those abilities, for their duration, give an aura of 0.1 True Damage per second; if you can make that aura give the assist credit to the healer. :P

[akanna]

I know that in League, if a hero is affected by a heal effect in the last ~15 seconds any kills or assists that they get are also given to the one that healed them-- make the same for Egon's Q/E and Medic's Q/E/R. That might be a bit harder to do... but I think it's possible. v=

 

Or alternatively, you could have each of those abilities, for their duration, give an aura of 0.1 True Damage per second; if you can make that aura give the assist credit to the healer. :P

O wow I really like that Idea, but I think the best option is the "if buffed/healed by any hero recently give them assist too" check

And token damages should be reserved for things that actually affect the enemy directly

 

I was thinking about this a lot when geneva came out, that if I invulnerable and heal the carry I should really be getting assists for their kills..... (like when you use geneva ult on leo with mirror force and ult up and they monster bc ppl can't damage or run :P)

 

And it would really make it easier for medics to stay back in a fight and purely heal without worrying about loosing assists, as was mentioned above

 

But really if you think about it applying buffs to heros would need to give assists not just healing....like granting shields or invulnerable to allies etc (we dont have any true buff spell heros that I can think of outside of geneva, but LZ and MAAR give shields), and I suppose aura item buffs would count too although most of those really only work in proximity anyways.

 

If they change this we could get rid of proximity finally so people would no longer get rewarded for just being in the general area and instead only get assists for actually assisting, and that would be amazing :)

(proximity is only in the game to try to give healers some assists)

 

Plus fixing it so that you get assists for healing or buffing allies / debuffing or initiating enemies would really make people more willing to play a true support role finally.

 

Good catch that I was focused too much on assists come from doing something that actually affects the enemy hero, and forgetting that it can also come from helping an allied hero live long enough to kill

 

I am kind of sad more people are not chiming in on this, making these changes would massively help the game

 

I may need to remake this to be a "assits rework thread" lol since we actually have 2 different changes now, and the title is only focused on the 1