sTeveN Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 a lvl 3 cain, with lvl 1 frostbite and lvl 2 barrage can cheaply aa u for EIGHT times. Barrage has a cooldown of 12 seconds, while the barrage buff lasts 15 seconds. so it's possible to hit a hero 8 times simultaneously (click barrage 10 secs before u reach the enemy hero, aa for 4 times and load barrage again for another 4 times. it's so cheap -.- and u can't avoid that cuz of his op slow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironsights Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 Leveling as melee against a cain is hard, you need a range harasser like nova or toxi to keep him off of you. Or be a tank. Tanks can pretty well ignore early game cain, though the melee tanks have issues leveling agaisnt him since he cain beat you out of the creep wave pretty easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spooky Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 how it possible to save barrage for 10 seconds during laning faze and after just start attacking the hero? It means Cain has to stop last hitting and stop denying for at least 10 seconds which is stupid by itself. The only way he can do it is by ganking from jungle near his easy lane. But its not the problem with Cain but with map awareness. Instead Cain it can be for example Nova, Darpa or Toxi and result would be the same - death. However its true that Cain is very strong during laning faze and his abilities allows him to easily harass opponents, especially melee ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divinesashi Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 No hero can ignore Cain's attack in early game. He has one of the highest damage output throughout the game... Azrael 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfessorInfestor Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 And if he uses haste also you are Super Dead. Rem 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogwarts Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 cain is extremely strong early - mid game but he falls off late game pretty significantly akanna 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sTeveN Posted January 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 cain is extremely strong early - mid game but he falls off late game pretty significantly i think his w should be buffed late game, instead of a constant number of dmg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akanna Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 lvl 3 cain shouldnt be able to kill you very easily without help, his attack speed and movement speed are far too low Its more around 5-7 that you should be watching your a$$ Honestly your best bet vs cain is just to run/kite whenever he ults or starts bursting you, he moves stupid slow and has a really low attack speed outside of his E, especially when chasing. Thats why so many people build him with Haste to try to compensate. Outside of haste he is highly reliant on his Q to give him a chance to lay a few shots into someone, and that's fairly easy to spot coming and move if you pay attention to where creeps are/aren't If you have a ranged hero/ranged spells its pretty easy to harass him because his movement speed is so low and his range is only 5, but if you are meele, you should really swap lanes....(unless you are like shadow or something) I'm not saying cain isn't a threat though, he is a beast throughout the early to mid game and very strong in the late game too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itsthatguy Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 lvl 3 cain shouldnt be able to kill you very easily without help, his attack speed and movement speed are far too low [E] = 4 free attacks. Also, he has an attack speed of 1.7 which is the lowest or equal to the lowest attack speed of all AA heroes. Heroic Passive : Slows down for 1.6 seconds, enough will max attack speed for 4 hits in a row. With Haste it is evil too. It is fairly easy to have the speed - Zeal + Swiftness, by the time you did your 4 attacks, enemy Zeal buff will most likely be gone so you will be faster too (in which you can get another slow on them from passive). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akanna Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 [E] = 4 free attacks. Also, he has an attack speed of 1.7 which is the lowest or equal to the lowest attack speed of all AA heroes. Heroic Passive : Slows down for 1.6 seconds, enough will max attack speed for 4 hits in a row. With Haste it is evil too. It is fairly easy to have the speed - Zeal + Swiftness, by the time you did your 4 attacks, enemy Zeal buff will most likely be gone so you will be faster too (in which you can get another slow on them from passive). I'm not saying he cant kill you at lvl 3, just that if you take off running as he starts bursting you, you should get away with most heros. Its not that hard to see him coming. His base moment is among the lowest of all heros (2.8), and if he has zeal and swiftness, he doesn't have haste or veteran, and therefore you should also be level 3 and have enough health / an escape ability of some kind to survive. Now if he went for veteran and haste and reached level 3 on a neutral and you are still level 1 and then he freezes you E's and then hastes to chase you down, that is a little different matter, but even then you can survive with quite a few heros if you react fast enough and have good awareness because of the +8 armor integrity provides (if you don't have integrity you talented wrong...) and the fact that he will usually not chase you through your own tower (Plus if you are in the side lanes your laning parter can bail you out/slow him down). His attack range is only 5 so you should know that he is coming to attack you because he either stopped laning and started moving towards you, or is coming in from one of the sides for a gank in which case you should see him coming long before he gets in range. His heroic passive slow doesn't proc all the time (its every 6 seconds), so if he was laning there is a good chance its already proc'd on a set of creeps, and won't proc on you right away I use cain a lot and have played against him a lot. So I am basing my statements on my own experience. I am by no means saying a level 3 cain can't kill someone, just pointing out that you should be able to get away if he is only level 3 and all alone and you have good map awareness, whether its from your lane partners help, or you just plain running. Although with nitro and haste its kinda iffy sometimes. To be fair though I also build haste on most heros, so running away from cain has never really been an issue :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sTeveN Posted January 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 i start thinking about this when i read a guide on Ursa, a DotA hero who's similar to cain (or cain is similar to him =p) the writer emphasized the importance of saving your barrage for a 8 shot burst... and it's pretty deadly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheekyKunt Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 early-mid cain is very very very strong, needs to be fixed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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