Nerf Shadow

[RaKuRa]

Appologies to all avid Shadow players, but this is one of the heroes that has been OP for a long time and somehow keeps not getting nerfed.

 

[EDIT from later posts below]

 

AoS needs to be balanced both in Pubs and in IHs.

• So if Shadow is a monster in Pubs and makes ppl rage and frustrated... it is a valid issue that needs to be addressed (given the nature of Pub = no teamplay).
  
• Additionally, even in IHs Shadow is disproportionately strong and, at least in my experiene, it is almost always one of the first hero to be banned. (that's why IH players do not complain too much ... they don't play against him that often).
  

Additionally, the whole argument that you can counter Shadow with an Item build (chilling, barbed, electric, etc) supports the argument that he is OP.

• For how many other Heroes you need specific item buids (more than 1 item) to have a chance to survive?
  
• For how many Heroes do you need teamplay and to stick together to have a chance to kill them. What when Shadow has a team behind as well when he engages?
  

Bottom line: He needs a nerf because he is disproportionately stronger relative to other heroes - he can jungle, he can lane, he can gank, he can engage, he can escape, he can CC, he is invisible on minimap, he has big burst dmg, he has huge AA dmg, he can kill 1v1; he can kill 1v2, he can kill 1v3, etc.

[Dllifer]

Shadow is squishy. :) If you properly utilize a good skill tree, and items; you'll be able to counter shadow easily. :3 Shadow isn't as op as he was before. I think he's already nerfed in this patch. The new heroes outshine him now. But good players will always make a hero shine despite how weak they are.

 

Maybe if you setup your skill tree with some defensive stats and use not squishy heroes, you might find shadow an easy target. Ironhide/toxi/nova/virgil/zeratul/borros or any character that you're good at will eat him.

[Eduardo]

Id say return his stepping strikes from 3.0 where he would sinply be stationary attacking you from behind only and not impede you from moving.

[captcpc]

Stepping Strikes is a mediocre damage steroid and extremely good chasing mechanism, but that's hardly what makes Shadow strong. It's his insane farming ability and mobility gained from his Occlusion and Shade as well as his ability to dodge all projectile spells with Vortex and Shade. He also has arguably one of the best team fight ultimates in the game, though it's easily countered by certain items and skills.

 

He also lacks any hard damage steroid outside of his Ultimate, which means harder carries like Zeratul, Tychus, Darpa, and Nova can easily outcarry him if they get on par in farm. He relies on constantly attacking to reach his full DPS, which means heroes with crowd control like Micro, Brine, Rory, and Cain can disable him and let the team kite him to death (as well any hero carrying Lockbox).

[Aellectris]

I think the main problem with stepping strikes is that it often causes Shadow.Geminus to dodge projectiles (E.g. Tower attacks). It's just as easy to farm with most other aa heroes, I just notice that most people are really bad at last-hitting ever since the change to give 60% exp to denied creeps instead of the old 0%. Once you've got a bit of farm it's easy to get more with any aa hero.

[Baggins]

Easiest way to counter shadow? Barbed plating and Superheated mantle, or electric mantle. The fact that shade scales with weapon damage now is pretty sweet, but other than that his ultimate has become practically useless at early levels (not to mention the failing of targeting then game lags). Shadow is annoying to fight as squishy heroes who have no way to run away, or stand and fight. If you don't want to tank or get any items that would help him just buy a warp shard, you can get away in the blink of an eye (literally) and if he can kill you before you can use warp shard, you deserve to die.

 

I'm not sure if i've noticed this or not, but can shadow be shoved aside by enemy heroes, so he doesn't block them and mess up pathing? Because that was the main issue with him. Also, stepping strikes is useless without enough weapon speed where you can catch up to the enemy, and if they are tanky enough you can't kill them until they reach a tower or an ally that can help.

[Nuparu]

As Nova, I tend to get raped late to Shadow due to the inability to escape him even after webbing him and also using Vanish due to him being able to catch up so easily with weapon speed.

 

Solution? IDK, I'll try a warp shard....

[lOvOl]

Shadow can be countered numerous ways such as Electric Mantle, however, if he gets a taser well then the game changes as taser is still a very broken item even after the 10% damage amplification nerf. The lag in teamfights also is a problem because it is hard enought to click on him with stepping strikes, but when lag ensues you can't click on him at all which means casters can't do anything against him.

 

Get rid of taser and a good Shadow player is much more manageable, but right now he is totally broken when he tasers first.

[Iguana]

We cant go a week without this topic coming up can we?

[Omnigear]

execution ax ^_^ since most shadow builds have leech.

[Iguana]

That doesnt get rid of the damage though. Only get executioners axe when you know they are building leech.

[Asur]

The solution to shadow is in fact stepping strike. It increases his range, and lets him attach himself onto anyone he wants, and coupled with Vortex and Shade, he's already incredibly mobile while in combat.

 

Taser is not the issue. Taser is a definite item to have in the game considering some of the characters that are available now. Without Taser, as is the game right now, certain characters would walk around on a rampage without anything stopping them.

 

My suggestion would be to replace stepping strike with some kind of slowing skill, or make it an active skill with a c/d.

[Doom]

The only solution to a late game shadow is: Zera/Cyprus + Taser/Toxi/Boros 1v1/ Drake with electric, barbed, massive spell leech, evasion, and a lot of timescale. And all of these would work on almost any hero. I know that shadow is a "carry" because he "carries" and other rubbish. Shadow is one of the strongest heroes at any stage in the game. He has superb farming, projectile evasion with vortex, stepping strikes, and shade. He has arguably the strongest heroic passive (nothing IMO even comes close. MAYBE grunty's or Tychus's). He has the single greatest non-ult burst damage spell in the game, and he is still the best chaser in the game. He can go over the attack speed cap with ult, something very few heroes can, without a ts build. He has the best movement slow, and one of the best movement increases in the game, which is AoE. He is nearly impossible to target due to stepping strikes and ult (even if you have vision inside, it is still a big black mess, which kills fps faster than shadow kills heroes). He can dodge any spell with a cast or projectile time due to vortex. He is the fourth best ganker (After Zera, Nova and Darpa, all of which are only marginally better) in the game. Due to his extreme agi scaling, by late game, with NO items, he has insane weapon damage, and ridiculous physical resist. With his huge weapon damage, he can leech a crazy amount of hp. If he gets an organic carpace, or other high base hp item, he is unkillable with any burst, while he can outdps, disable or outleech any hero in the game. His vortex is IMO the third best non-pluck initiation skill in the game (after Jax and drake ultimates). The list of things he is not the best or top 3 at is 5 times shorter than the list of things he is in the top 3 at. I haven't any solutions, for this, hell, I barely play the game now, but I think Shadow is in need of a solid whack in the stomach by the nerf bat. He is a one man team, a one man army. He synergizes well with most heroes, most lanes, he can perform most functions, and perform them well. AND he brings down my fps, so I am doubly pissed off at him. Case closed.

[IGICthrefive]

Shadow is like any agi hero, in a pub match where he is fed he is difficult to stop, but so is any hero if fed and played well. If you are map aware you should not get caught 1v1 by him often, and lots of heroes can counter him fairly easy. Drake should eat a shadow for breakfast with his ulti or with his W, Toxi's ult too eats a shadow quickly along with his vomit, Boros' ulti shreds him and so does his Q, any sort of AOE stun ( Tosh Spectres, Unix ) stops him as well. The new hero Vergil should absolutely touch Shadow up before rolling him over as well, every Move he has is totally anti Shadow provided you have any item that reduces weapon speed and even without it If a shadow player is getting on top of a vergil wow, that Vergil must suck. Erek has the anti weapon speed built in, Zeratul should kill him simply in his bubble...Im sure there are other counters to shadow, these are just the ones on the top of my head.

[Jack]

i don't see ih having this problem :D

[FruitNinja]

Shadow can easily be countered with electric mantle and some burst spell damage. 3 seconds is more than enough time for balrog to screech and ult, cyprus to do his combo, dustin to spam, etc. And if you have a brine you can disable him for another 2.5 seconds.

 

He's also ridiculously easy to harass while laning, owing to his poor hp and vulnerability while attacking to things like balrog's lunge + screech or any sort of DPS spell, really.

[lOvOl]

execution ax ^_^ since most shadow builds have leech.

 

I counter you with bossnerd gayzer. Same thing with electric mantle as well in that if Shadow tasers you first, you will be dead before you can do anything to counter him. In teamfights you can have everyone with tasers tasering everybody if you want, but until that items gets removed/changed then Shadow is near uncounterable against most heroes.

[Magma]

I agree with lovol taser is the real problem because without spells no hero can out AA shadow, if u add on the damage boost from mossberg, you are dead, without question. Thats why u have to stay in a group and thats when the rest of his team comes in and rapes u with all there aoe.

[Relic]

DST also helps against shadow as it slows his attack speed down to something less ridiculous.

I guess that still doesn't stop a shadow with a taser. I guess teamwork is the only real way to completely shut down a shadow

[Seriphos]

The only problem I see is that he's too hard countered by crowd control and having him get crowd control is too easy.

[Jack]

the shadow you guys are complaining about is the shadow that 1v5 in pubs. that never happens in ih. why? they stick together and do other stuffs that normal pubs don't do, and shadow becomes much less powerful. shadow can kill most casters or squishies without escape abilities because that is what shadow is supposed to do. he is an assassin, and if he kills enough people, he will be very powerful. but shadow can only kill them because it is 1v1. you are not supposed to vs shadow 1v1, if you are a squishy without escape. squishies should always stay with atleast 1 other person or a group, otherwise they get killed by shadow and complain how op he is. if shadow kills an entire team, it is a pub, or shadow stole all the kills, or he was fed by some squishy people overextending by themselves.

 

i say again, this stuff don't happen (usually don't) in ih.

[Seriphos]

Yeah, unless it's like our SEA IH's :)

 

 

Also, he is more viable in IH because of his hard-counters. Something that troubles me is that he follows with stepping strikes even after blink. Any help?

[TastyMango]

Shadow was just nerfed. The buff to Electric Mantle is HUGE. I just was on the receiving end of it yesterday, as shadow.

[doxthefox]

Shadow op better nerf everyone else.

[Adamantium]

Yeah, unless it's like our SEA IH's :)

 

 

Also, he is more viable in IH because of his hard-counters. Something that troubles me is that he follows with stepping strikes even after blink. Any help?

 

I don't understand... He is more viable because of his hard-counters? By more viable, do you mean less powerful?