Stuns: Should they be in the game

[Arson]

This is not a debate about whether stuns are overpowered, or underpowered. This is a debate about the very purpose of these skills, and if they should be in the game at all.

 

Stuns are used to help land skill shots or keep a target/targets in position or for other reasons such as escaping, chasing, etc. However, there are only a few heroes that actually truly benefit from it, and thus make it a worthwhile. Rory, Jakk, Boros are the main three, although there are some other that can find effective use of these skills in unconventional builds.

 

This skill removes the little skill required for Rory to land molotov, or Boros to land Bola. Jakk's E mines stop being an area denial/farming spell, and become an effective mechanism for taking 80% of a squishy target's life. None of these heroes NEED this skill, it makes their job so much easier, but they are not underpowered without it. I used to main Rory in 3.0, where you actually needed skill to land a Molotov. Every version since late v4 changed that, and what we have now is not even the best support item for it.

 

Molotov and Bola are not hard to land at all.... they have a fairly large AoE, and besides, the point of some heroes is to provide the distractions needed for the pluck. The inclusion of stuns makes what used to be a 70% shot for the very best players, a 100% for even the worst.

 

I am not going to discuss the balance of these skills, because it doesn't matter. These skills should not exist. The skill required to do well in the game has lessened. In the past, a significantly better player could carry 99% of the games with any hero. Right now, I simply don't pick certain heroes, because I know that I have 0 chance of winning with them. AA heroes dominate, a pub team of 5 AA carries are theoretically easy to counter, blah, blah, blah, and I can do it, when I out-skill a vast majority of players in public games, but the more, and the better (herowise, not skillwise) the AA carries in the game of roughly equally skilled pubbers, the tinier the chance of that team losing. There are some other heroes, not AA, that in the right hands overpower, and destroy everything, mainly being Rancor, Null, Rory, and Mandrake, but they are rare exceptions, that are also overpowered in pubs (I don't play Rancor often, but I think out of all the games since last 3 months, which were about 20, I didn't get more than 2 deaths with Rancor, and never less than 25 total assist + kills, except those games where other team rq'ed within minutes).

 

As I was saying in the above paragraph (I got a little carried away), there is very little skill needed in this game now. Removing stuns would increase the skill needed for some heroes without necessarily nerfing them directly. I don't understand why Rory, in theory a team-fight only hero, can go 1v1 vs the average hero, stun lock them, and then force them to back off, or get stevied/flared and die. Its not OP, that concept, but the fact that I cannot dodge an apparent "skillshot" with a hero that has strong mobility, further amplified by items, and used by a player that has ten times the skill of the other team combined...... that's wrong. Remove stuns, please. After months of inhousing with the players of SEA, where 3g3g is played, I've noticed the ever present presence of hard initiators, which include micro, drake, brine, vorpal. After some time myself and the other captain just decided to ban the initiators, relying on traditional slows/stuns in order to win teamfights/small battles.

 

Due to request:

Doom. 2013. Lockbox: Should it be in the game. [ONLINE] Available at:http://www.aeonofstorms.com/index.php?/topic/2450-lockbox-should-it-be-in-the-game/. [Accessed 04 January 13].

 

And to make it seem like this post is not only "spam and mockery" and that the removal of stuns has logic and reason

 

After months of inhousing with the players of SEA, where 3g3g is played, I've noticed the ever present presence of hard initiators, which include micro, drake, brine and vorpal. After some time myself and the other captain just decided to ban the initiators, relying on traditional slows/stuns in order to win teamfights/small battles. We proceeded to play one of the most enjoyable games of AOS that I've had due to the presence of a far greater number of teamfights, which seemed much more satisfying, much like those experienced in DOTA.

 

On to the point, the role of stuns in this game is arguably only to be able to win 1v1 fights (think stun baton) or cancel channelled abilities. The latter of which can be stopped with a silence. My point is, the stuns do not serve as a tool for initiation the same way as they should, as a myriad of heroes have extremely reliable initiations. (wayyyyy tooo reliable)

 

The removal of stuns will inevitably improve the need to be in teamfights and not be off killing 3 people with a single rebounder and molotov.

Edited January 4, 2013 by Arson

[Phyresis]

Troll is successful.

[TungVu]

This is not a debate about whether stuns are overpowered, or underpowered. This is a debate about the very purpose of these skills, and if they should be in the game at all.

 

Stuns are used to help land skill shots or keep a target/targets in position or for other reasons such as escaping, chasing, etc. However, there are only a few heroes that actually truly benefit from it, and thus make it a worthwhile. Rory, Jakk, Boros are the main three, although there are some other that can find effective use of these skills in unconventional builds.

 

This skill removes the little skill required for Rory to land molotov, or Boros to land Bola. Jakk's E mines stop being an area denial/farming spell, and become an effective mechanism for taking 80% of a squishy target's life. None of these heroes NEED this skill, it makes their job so much easier, but they are not underpowered without it. I used to main Rory in 3.0, where you actually needed skill to land a Molotov. Every version since late v4 changed that, and what we have now is not even the best support item for it.

 

Molotov and Bola are not hard to land at all.... they have a fairly large AoE, and besides, the point of some heroes is to provide the distractions needed for the pluck. The inclusion of stuns makes what used to be a 70% shot for the very best players, a 100% for even the worst.

 

I am not going to discuss the balance of these skills, because it doesn't matter. These skills should not exist. The skill required to do well in the game has lessened. In the past, a significantly better player could carry 99% of the games with any hero. Right now, I simply don't pick certain heroes, because I know that I have 0 chance of winning with them. AA heroes dominate, a pub team of 5 AA carries are theoretically easy to counter, blah, blah, blah, and I can do it, when I out-skill a vast majority of players in public games, but the more, and the better (herowise, not skillwise) the AA carries in the game of roughly equally skilled pubbers, the tinier the chance of that team losing. There are some other heroes, not AA, that in the right hands overpower, and destroy everything, mainly being Rancor, Null, Rory, and Mandrake, but they are rare exceptions, that are also overpowered in pubs (I don't play Rancor often, but I think out of all the games since last 3 months, which were about 20, I didn't get more than 2 deaths with Rancor, and never less than 25 total assist + kills, except those games where other team rq'ed within minutes).

 

As I was saying in the above paragraph (I got a little carried away), there is very little skill needed in this game now. Removing stuns would increase the skill needed for some heroes without necessarily nerfing them directly. I don't understand why Rory, in theory a team-fight only hero, can go 1v1 vs the average hero, stun lock them, and then force them to back off, or get stevied/flared and die. Its not OP, that concept, but the fact that I cannot dodge an apparent "skillshot" with a hero that has strong mobility, further amplified by items, and used by a player that has ten times the skill of the other team combined...... that's wrong. Remove stuns, please.

 

Game working as intended.

[Arson]

The point is, there are many features that need not be in the game but are still included to make AOS more dynamic, even if it is a copy of Eul's Sceptre. I could easily make a similar thread as to a reason there are more than ten heroes or why there are slows etc. etc.

 

STOP COMPLAINING!!!

[Itsthatguy]

Silences Should they be in the game? They prevent important abilities uses that can shut down an entire hero

 

Should Abilities in the game? Abilities are plan dumb. You can teleport, you can damage enemies and MUTIPLE ENEMIES. Oh my gawd so OP. Casters shudn't be able to cast abilities. Period.

[SJInspireZ]

This post by itself just shattered my mind at exactly 12:22 AM at night, I can now die a peaceful death.

[Doom]

The point is, there are many features that need not be in the game but are still included to make AOS more dynamic, even if it is a copy of Eul's Sceptre. I could easily make a similar thread as to a reason there are more than ten heroes or why there are slows etc. etc.

 

STOP COMPLAINING!!!

 

You created a troll thread, and plagiarized me. I created a well-constructed post regarding the idea of if we want items that vastly reduce the skill needed to play this game. I used logic and reason, as well as time to create a meaningful thread. You ctrl-insert, shift-inserted someone else's post, made minor alterations to it, and created a new topic for no reason other than spam and mockery, without even the decency to reference the original, or write a thesis to somewhat justify your actions. If you want to share your irrelevant and seemingly worthless views, kindly post it in the appropriate thread, or better yet not write anything and stay silent.

[Rohtube]

You created a troll thread, and plagiarized me. I created a well-constructed post regarding the idea of if we want items that vastly reduce the skill needed to play this game. I used logic and reason, as well as time to create a meaningful thread. You ctrl-insert, shift-inserted someone else's post, made minor alterations to it, and created a new topic for no reason other than spam and mockery, without even the decency to reference the original, or write a thesis to somewhat justify your actions. If you want to share your irrelevant and seemingly worthless views, kindly post it in the appropriate thread, or better yet not write anything and stay silent.

Dude idk about you, but this is funny as hell to read, LOL!

[mastercodes]

This is not a debate about whether stuns are overpowered, or underpowered. This is a debate about the very purpose of these skills, and if they should be in the game at all.

 

Stuns are used to help land skill shots or keep a target/targets in position or for other reasons such as escaping, chasing, etc. However, there are only a few heroes that actually truly benefit from it, and thus make it a worthwhile. Rory, Jakk, Boros are the main three, although there are some other that can find effective use of these skills in unconventional builds.

 

This skill removes the little skill required for Rory to land molotov, or Boros to land Bola. Jakk's E mines stop being an area denial/farming spell, and become an effective mechanism for taking 80% of a squishy target's life. None of these heroes NEED this skill, it makes their job so much easier, but they are not underpowered without it. I used to main Rory in 3.0, where you actually needed skill to land a Molotov. Every version since late v4 changed that, and what we have now is not even the best support item for it.

 

Molotov and Bola are not hard to land at all.... they have a fairly large AoE, and besides, the point of some heroes is to provide the distractions needed for the pluck. The inclusion of stuns makes what used to be a 70% shot for the very best players, a 100% for even the worst.

 

I am not going to discuss the balance of these skills, because it doesn't matter. These skills should not exist. The skill required to do well in the game has lessened. In the past, a significantly better player could carry 99% of the games with any hero. Right now, I simply don't pick certain heroes, because I know that I have 0 chance of winning with them. AA heroes dominate, a pub team of 5 AA carries are theoretically easy to counter, blah, blah, blah, and I can do it, when I out-skill a vast majority of players in public games, but the more, and the better (herowise, not skillwise) the AA carries in the game of roughly equally skilled pubbers, the tinier the chance of that team losing. There are some other heroes, not AA, that in the right hands overpower, and destroy everything, mainly being Rancor, Null, Rory, and Mandrake, but they are rare exceptions, that are also overpowered in pubs (I don't play Rancor often, but I think out of all the games since last 3 months, which were about 20, I didn't get more than 2 deaths with Rancor, and never less than 25 total assist + kills, except those games where other team rq'ed within minutes).

 

As I was saying in the above paragraph (I got a little carried away), there is very little skill needed in this game now. Removing stuns would increase the skill needed for some heroes without necessarily nerfing them directly. I don't understand why Rory, in theory a team-fight only hero, can go 1v1 vs the average hero, stun lock them, and then force them to back off, or get stevied/flared and die. Its not OP, that concept, but the fact that I cannot dodge an apparent "skillshot" with a hero that has strong mobility, further amplified by items, and used by a player that has ten times the skill of the other team combined...... that's wrong. Remove stuns, please. After months of inhousing with the players of SEA, where 3g3g is played, I've noticed the ever present presence of hard initiators, which include micro, drake, brine, vorpal. After some time myself and the other captain just decided to ban the initiators, relying on traditional slows/stuns in order to win teamfights/small battles.

 

Due to request:

Doom. 2013. Lockbox: Should it be in the game. [ONLINE] Available at:http://www.aeonofsto...be-in-the-game/. [Accessed 04 January 13].

 

And to make it seem like this post is not only "spam and mockery" and that the removal of stuns has logic and reason

 

After months of inhousing with the players of SEA, where 3g3g is played, I've noticed the ever present presence of hard initiators, which include micro, drake, brine and vorpal. After some time myself and the other captain just decided to ban the initiators, relying on traditional slows/stuns in order to win teamfights/small battles. We proceeded to play one of the most enjoyable games of AOS that I've had due to the presence of a far greater number of teamfights, which seemed much more satisfying, much like those experienced in DOTA.

 

On to the point, the role of stuns in this game is arguably only to be able to win 1v1 fights (think stun baton) or cancel channelled abilities. The latter of which can be stopped with a silence. My point is, the stuns do not serve as a tool for initiation the same way as they should, as a myriad of heroes have extremely reliable initiations. (wayyyyy tooo reliable)

 

The removal of stuns will inevitably improve the need to be in teamfights and not be off killing 3 people with a single rebounder and molotov.

dumb arson is dumb

i didnt even reads this

[neogeo]

remove this and that.

play pacman.

[BestPlayer]

lol u are noob and this thread is a bad

roflmao

[Yaldi]

I think the only explanation is that arson is owl's troll account

[residente]

Hahahahaha

[Hogwarts]

the amount of fail in this thread .....

 

 

herp derp i cant 1v5 wins pubs please get rid of all the CC !!!

[doxthefox]

I think we need more forms of CC.

 

The snipe of Rancor should be refreshed if he's landed a snipe in the last minute to make it fair. Also, Tosh should have infinite Spectre... but since I already called for eliminating all agil characters I guess none of these ideas will work. O well.

[Yaldi]

the amount of fail in this thread .....

 

 

herp derp i cant 1v5 wins pubs please get rid of all the CC !!!

 

He doesnt want rid of all CC

[Doom]

Thank you for the edit to the OP.

[Azrael]

First, lets start by saying that Stun is a state and that some skills can Stun, there are other states/debuffs (Slow MS, Slower WA, Etc.). Are you refering only to the Stun (Being inmobilized and unable to cast spells/use items) or to the whole array of altered states?

 

If is the first, there are not that many spells/items that actually stun, but those that do are quite often the reason why a team wins a teamfight.

 

If its the second, and you seem to feel that there are too many spells that apply debuffs, i agree, there is too much slow, aoe, and shap :D.

 

Still, the stuns and slows and cc are the only way that caster heros can hold at bay AA carrys... If you remove the CC from the game, AoS is gonna be a race to get Pyre and FoE... Let NOVA/ZERA/SHADOW/DARPA reign on aos XD

[Nuparu]

DARPA and Zera already rule AoS >.<

[rayn]

i might be inclined to say stun and cc durations are a tick too long imho. but they dont deserve to be removed, you still need an element of strategy

[VasyaKot]

the amount of fail in this thread .....

 

 

herp derp i cant 1v5 wins pubs please get rid of all the CC !!!

dont take this thread serious buddy

[WhaleTits]

i personally think all ui should be removed from the game, and you shouldn't be able to see where your mouse is, nor should you be able to see what your skills do until you use them. that way everything is a skill shot! also the game woul dbe more realistic if everyone was forced to use -fps mode, with the camera as first person. then it would be like, your the hero! instead of controling the hero, like a summoner in LoL. Stop copying LoL, RNG. If i wanted to play LoL, i would play LoL. This game needs to be played from first person. OH shap THATS COPYING SMITE WHAT AM I SAYING. Have a fish. SHROOM MOTHERflobER. Do you bannana like a flapping gelatin? HARAM! Gelatin is made from pig. throw at nearby mosque for instant jihad. Like instant noodle, but more explosive. with spice. and the following diharrea.

 

 

...

 

...

 

Mf's diary

21:05

Today I bought a bf sword

I noticed my damage increased significantly

I think I try to buy one sooner next time.

[Hogwarts]

i personally think all ui should be removed from the game, and you shouldn't be able to see where your mouse is, nor should you be able to see what your skills do until you use them. that way everything is a skill shot! also the game woul dbe more realistic if everyone was forced to use -fps mode, with the camera as first person. then it would be like, your the hero! instead of controling the hero, like a summoner in LoL. Stop copying LoL, RNG. If i wanted to play LoL, i would play LoL. This game needs to be played from first person. OH shap THATS COPYING SMITE WHAT AM I SAYING. Have a fish. SHROOM MOTHERflobER. Do you bannana like a flapping gelatin? HARAM! Gelatin is made from pig. throw at nearby mosque for instant jihad. Like instant noodle, but more explosive. with spice. and the following diharrea.

 

 

...

 

...

 

Mf's diary

21:05

Today I bought a bf sword

I noticed my damage increased significantly

I think I try to buy one sooner next time.

 

 

i knew one day the asian in him would drive him over the edge, that pressure

[TungVu]

[TungVu]

I GO TO WORK

THIS WASTE OF TIME

UR MOM SHOULD HAVE CANCER

MY MOM IS DEAD BUT AT LEAST SHE DIDNT DIE FROM THE WRAITH CAMP