Inh and the way teams develop!

[KinGofDaBerG]

I feel some where something got messed up, I can assume, that it started with a team/group of players who always played together, decided that they would challenge another team who was significantly weaker then them and therefore the weaker team stated that the top team should be split to make teams fair... Or the top team just want to play against there team mates which is unlikely... As friends and good players will always try with each other!

Now to my concern: as this system developed we have just accepted it and gone with the flow, and the way is become is that people have begun pick out top individual players and individuals are getting the glory, eg first pick being regarded the best player etc now what this has formed is the abandonment of 1st teams and top teams forming... IN A TEAM GAME????

 

I go witness other team games such as black op, COD, dota, LoL etc and if you see these games, teams have formed and there are great individual players but the are known for being great in there team on there skill alone. My cousins play Black Ops and there form of Inh's are clanies where clans actually play against clans or developed teams... They as have pick-ups but that is more like pubs in our case.

 

I feel The only way this game can develop (after balance and more heroes items etc) is to have actually teams or clan only challenging them selves, and do away with this inh system, as this will help in forming teams for tourneys and actually get a competitive stage going... I try this with the 4 clans that formed recently, but instead of there being a league, clans should challenge other clan or teams and never split, practice together, if there are no other teams available then pub together. I know though this can't always be done and it is fun to organize random games, but teams need to from as this is a team game, and individualism should be removed for this whole think on the game!

 

This whole system of no we don't want to play against you cause your too strong is stupid... If you don't want to play against a team who is organized then, you shouldn't be plaing as you need to form you own team to challenge them.. I remember the dark clan were very good at this and there Main team never changed!

[Rem]

The original in houses we played were more like this, a team with 5-7 players hookinh up to face off vs other teams it was alot more fun imo but harder to organize.

[BestPlayer]

Competitive scene is too small.

The reason clan vs clan work in other games with more established competitive environment, is that there are enough players to have clans/teams of many different skill levels. In any A-RTS game like AoS there will be some "best players" and a "best team", it is quite inevitable. You don't just beat people that are way above your skill level because you have good teamplay, you play against people around your own level and improve consistently.

 

A ladder was formed on ESL some time ago, in SotIS. Only CoLOTeAM and a German team of non-inhousers signed up. Link here the ladder has since been removed, as it totalled an incredible 1 game played.

[doxthefox]

Not enough skilled players, too many trolls... even back in when i played seriously we had the same issues. This is as big as it gets bro. All the former players graduate to more competitive games like lol/dota/smite/hon etc. Usually its when they get frustrated with the changes or get bored. The remaining few become the next t1/veteran/voice of the community. I think i was probably the 4th generation after this n00b pro tungvu guy who was probably 2nd or 3rd and this n00b soede who was probably 3rd for europe amongst the remaining few on this site. Peas/crazysoldier are the last of the 4th for na since it looks like aellectris has switched to lol. I don't know who's left for eu. Is it soede corsa residente and dipi? I don't even see you on mumble much honestly if at all. You probably went and got a new game or god forbid... a social life! Maybe the game will be better in hots but i honestly thought it reached its peak in 3.0/4.0 era about 1.5 years ago with constant streaming and tournaments and that rigged little sotis stat bar for those that remember. Dastarz that fuking cheater loooool. Either way i understand what you want to try to do for the game but its unrealistic sadly.

[lOvOl]

This is a great post. Nevertheless, the problem I think is logistics. A lot of people just don't have predictable times they can be online to play around.

 

I play indoor soccer (football for you Euros) at the moment and the main reasons people reliably show up is because they paid quite a bit of money to be on the team (league fees, etc.) and because people don't like to let down their teammates. That being said, you usually want to have plenty of people on the roster because people can't make it all the time for other reasons that come up (sickness, anniversaries, having to travel out of town for work), but you obviously don't want too many people on the roster or else people complain about not getting enough playing time.

 

I suppose clan wars, etc. have the same issues just that you need an even larger group of people in a clan because playing computer games with random people at a set time is usually not on the high priority list for adult gamers, so by this fact alone you could consider most gamers to be unreliable, but even if you have enough unreliable people you can still field a team as long as the team captain/manager makes sure enough people show up and not too many subs show up to twiddle their thumbs because nobody really wants to do that either.

 

When I played Star Battle, there were a handful fo clans at one point when the game was at its apex in popularity, but the most elite clan decided they would bring in more players but put them in tiers. Of course when it comes to elitism, this system is even worse than the IH system for AoS because you have a rigid caste system and a hierarchy that is usually pretty undemocratic and well those types of systems fall apart sooner or later because of a lack of mobility between the castes, even though in theory you would have a promotion/demotion system in place for objectively good or bad play. The problem is it never works out that way and I feel the popularity of the game died off in large part from the Star Battle IH community having even bigger problems than AoS has at the moment. If you want a game to flourish you do need a competitive environment, but caste systems and the elitism of captain systems really turn a lot of people off (myself included) and in the long run kill the game completely because once the self-proclaimed gods of a game have nobody to worship them anymore, they move onto other games to get their ego boost where sometimes they do well and sometimes they find out the hard way the current self-proclaimed gods of whatever game the moved onto have no desire to let anyone else steal their thunder. But the game they left becomes a vacuum into itself.

 

So yah if there was a real competitive team system, then I would be interested but I would also be interested in a simple random team, random hero system for IH play without all this nonsense about picking teams and banning heroes and I bet so would a lot of other people.

[WhaleTits]

i don't think we have a large enough player base for permanent clans/teams.

 

though slim jim, and NA vs EU come close.

 

 

also african, that was an absurdly difficult post to read. l2english

[Adversary]

Lol comparing a game that has millions of players to a game that has thousands of players... Of course the game that has millions of players is going to have clans.

[Peas]

Its just not possible and never will be. Its a pipe dream...to hope, and indeed attempt to work towards something greater than what we have. Just some of the reasons why:

 

- A player base of at most a few thousand players, which constantly turns over

- A development team consisting of 1.5 individuals

- A borrowed platform, a subset of a different and bigger game

[KinGofDaBerG]

Haha, ye my writing is pretty shocking, but anywaYz, I dont know I'm not convinced about the player base being too small, we have gotten too comfortable, sitting and playing inh's wait for something or eating for the game to become bigger, many have left, to other games assuming AoS/sotis would never kick off.... I honestly think the best way for this game and it's player base to evolve of of it's stagnant form, is the have an organized competitive scene.

Something like regular tournament, better organized tournaments, etc, I really don't thnk the player base is small as most people think....

[BestPlayer]

Haha, ye my writing is pretty shocking, but anywaYz, I dont know I'm not convinced about the player base being too small, we have gotten too comfortable, sitting and playing inh's wait for something or eating for the game to become bigger, many have left, to other games assuming AoS/sotis would never kick off.... I honestly think the best way for this game and it's player base to evolve of of it's stagnant form, is the have an organized competitive scene.

Something like regular tournament, better organized tournaments, etc, I really don't thnk the player base is small as most people think....

 

I really don't want to shap on your parade, Afrikan, but that has been attempted by a lot of people before you. Basikally sinse wersion 3.0 there hawe been some who thought they would be the one to injekt the kompetitiweness into ewery inhouser, and kreate the right enwironment. On NA it was notably Bishop during 3.0 and 4.0 if I rekall.

If you look the link I posted, you'll see that ladder is aktually 1.5 years old - goodness I'we been playing this game for a long time, and sadly I hawe yet to see what you're talking about ewer work out.

I know it must be annoying to hear, and why the fuk kan't I just at least let you try to improwe the kommunity... Well i'm saying it bekause I know from personal eksperiense how shapty it is. You ran the last tourney, you know it. How people are like. You inwest time and ewen a signifikant portion of money into the game, and yet people are all the same.

It is not ewen an "ingrained problem" or anything like that, it isn't something that kan be fiksed owernight bekause it kan't be fiksed at all.

AoS is ill, and the illness isn't people unwilling to adapt or them being handfuls(although those are true too) it's that there are simply not enough people.

[BestZeratul]

Another problem is that a lot of the competitive players leave (because of the poor changes, let's face it), so not only the player pool is small but the very players that would play competitively are all switching to other games.

[BestPlayer]

Another problem is that a lot of the competitive players leave (because of the poor changes, let's face it), so not only the player pool is small but the very players that would play competitively are all switching to other games.

If anyone wants to learn dota gimme a shout and I set u up with chob who lowes to teash )

[doxthefox]

If anyone wants to learn dota gimme a shout and I set u up with chob who lowes to teash )

 

ooo ooo teach me! I've learned the names of three characters... let's see... Drow, Lychytrophe, and Pudge. O yeaaaaa I've also played the game a total of 2 times now. I think the detail in the graphics are pretty poor... and I mean c'mon I play LoL and that shap is cartoonish. When are they going to release Blizzard All-Stars. That sounds promising...*Coming Soon*

[BestPlayer]

ooo ooo teach me! I've learned the names of three characters... let's see... Drow, Lychytrophe, and Pudge. O yeaaaaa I've also played the game a total of 2 times now. I think the detail in the graphics are pretty poor... and I mean c'mon I play LoL and that shap is cartoonish. When are they going to release Blizzard All-Stars. That sounds promising...*Coming Soon*

I know you're trolling, but I also hope you're kidding.

[Hogwarts]

I really don't want to shap on your parade, Afrikan, but that has been attempted by a lot of people before you. Basikally sinse wersion 3.0 there hawe been some who thought they would be the one to injekt the kompetitiweness into ewery inhouser, and kreate the right enwironment. On NA it was notably Bishop during 3.0 and 4.0 if I rekall.

If you look the link I posted, you'll see that ladder is aktually 1.5 years old - goodness I'we been playing this game for a long time, and sadly I hawe yet to see what you're talking about ewer work out.

I know it must be annoying to hear, and why the fuk kan't I just at least let you try to improwe the kommunity... Well i'm saying it bekause I know from personal eksperiense how shapty it is. You ran the last tourney, you know it. How people are like. You inwest time and ewen a signifikant portion of money into the game, and yet people are all the same.

It is not ewen an "ingrained problem" or anything like that, it isn't something that kan be fiksed owernight bekause it kan't be fiksed at all.

AoS is ill, and the illness isn't people unwilling to adapt or them being handfuls(although those are true too) it's that there are simply not enough people.

 

why do you troll with bad grammar on purpose?

[BestPlayer]

why do you troll with bad grammar on purpose?

I think I already eksplained seweral times that my keyboard is broken, and I hawe to plug in an eksternal one if I want to type a sertain 4 letters.

It also has nothing to do with grammar. It is spelling. My grammar is fine.

 

In addition, I'm not trolling. I stand by what I wrote in this thread.

 

Now, I ask you:

Why do you konsistently write utterly inane and meaningless replies?

[Hogwarts]

I think I already eksplained seweral times that my keyboard is broken, and I hawe to plug in an eksternal one if I want to type a sertain 4 letters.

It also has nothing to do with grammar. It is spelling. My grammar is fine.

 

In addition, I'm not trolling. I stand by what I wrote in this thread.

 

Now, I ask you:

Why do you konsistently write utterly inane and meaningless replies?

 

i have no clue what u just said

[BestPlayer]

i have no clue what u just said

Funny guy.

[Snacky]

This is a great post. Nevertheless, the problem I think is logistics. A lot of people just don't have predictable times they can be online to play around.

 

I play indoor soccer (football for you Euros) at the moment and the main reasons people reliably show up is because they paid quite a bit of money to be on the team (league fees, etc.) and because people don't like to let down their teammates. That being said, you usually want to have plenty of people on the roster because people can't make it all the time for other reasons that come up (sickness, anniversaries, having to travel out of town for work), but you obviously don't want too many people on the roster or else people complain about not getting enough playing time.

 

I suppose clan wars, etc. have the same issues just that you need an even larger group of people in a clan because playing computer games with random people at a set time is usually not on the high priority list for adult gamers, so by this fact alone you could consider most gamers to be unreliable, but even if you have enough unreliable people you can still field a team as long as the team captain/manager makes sure enough people show up and not too many subs show up to twiddle their thumbs because nobody really wants to do that either.

 

When I played Star Battle, there were a handful fo clans at one point when the game was at its apex in popularity, but the most elite clan decided they would bring in more players but put them in tiers. Of course when it comes to elitism, this system is even worse than the IH system for AoS because you have a rigid caste system and a hierarchy that is usually pretty undemocratic and well those types of systems fall apart sooner or later because of a lack of mobility between the castes, even though in theory you would have a promotion/demotion system in place for objectively good or bad play. The problem is it never works out that way and I feel the popularity of the game died off in large part from the Star Battle IH community having even bigger problems than AoS has at the moment. If you want a game to flourish you do need a competitive environment, but caste systems and the elitism of captain systems really turn a lot of people off (myself included) and in the long run kill the game completely because once the self-proclaimed gods of a game have nobody to worship them anymore, they move onto other games to get their ego boost where sometimes they do well and sometimes they find out the hard way the current self-proclaimed gods of whatever game the moved onto have no desire to let anyone else steal their thunder. But the game they left becomes a vacuum into itself.

 

So yah if there was a real competitive team system, then I would be interested but I would also be interested in a simple random team, random hero system for IH play without all this nonsense about picking teams and banning heroes and I bet so would a lot of other people.

 

+1

 

The problem is the community.

The supposedly "Top" players know the, I believe that it is his ego. For example African you complain here, but your mute when someone says something you don't like.

[Yaldi]

Also might I add people in this game are no where near committed enough to form "teams" I remember when i tried to organise a league and things just went badly because although people wanted to be part of it they put no effort into organising the games or organising their own teams to be on at a certain times

[WhaleTits]

well i'm not really that competitive, or more like, im rather lazy (notice the lack of spotlights....) so if you want to find some highly motivated ppl and try and do this, thats fine. i'd support it, and chip in, but i'm not going to organize it/help lead it

[Skydie]

Main issue is playerbase, first time I actually saw any remnants of a community was during SA's tournament (a good site indeed). However considering you can't get IH games in EU at 5-6pm it'll be a long way till the only IH are teams only. Besides take a look at the 3 Aos 'clans' in EU, I barely ever see 5+ of their members on at once. Although I only start Aos in May/June 2012, I do remember Dark clan having Dark only IH games. But since then many of their players seemed to have disapeared.

[Takeray]

Though the player's base being small is an issue to deal with it. If we want to expand or someone is interested in this game growing up, we can use that poor argument for being lazy.

 

Though Dota1 was a mod of warcraft 3, firstly it wasn't a massive game. It is like 9-10 years old.

Lol at beginning wasn't so massive as it is now.

 

I mean, maybe, we can, maybe we cannot, but with this attittude ( thinking a product has to start with a high playerbase) is the way to get nothing.

 

There's no a real problem with community ih on mumble, some people can be nice for you, and not others, just like in real life or in any other game.

 

Things to do:

 

- Streaming( daily) if possible. - link on social networks-

- Work in other languages (Chinese, German, Spanish, French, Russian, Korean) forums of game.

It is different getting information from getting a social environment.

- Blizzard by adding an automachmarking system.

- Organization of leagues ( If posible ESL reinscription again*)

 

* This step should be done after a time other two before.

 

Game is popularized and live because of people who keeps playing, I am not interested on people looking for troll in a random mod neither profesional Sc2 players who hardly rid of his profesionalism, same for dota or lol.

 

I mean, people tends to play in a profesional way just one, no more than two games.getting these people from this game is absurd just in the way his money is not increased. By other hand, people being casual but interested on becoming pro or people like relaxing should be first o get.

[Spooky]

But no one would buy SC2 only to play AoS anyway

[KinGofDaBerG]

The Arcade is a big part of the SC2 community, yes it isn't likely that a person would buy the game for the purpose of one game in the arcade, but very likely for a person to buy the game for the arcade itself! which is in a way buying the game for the AoS ;) Whats up :)