duran's items

[jamescossey]

the 3 duran's items for starting items are very unfair.

 

Duran's Pendant................Duran's Machette..............Duran's Buckler

. .

Recipe Cost: 80 . Recipe Cost: 80 . Recipe Cost: 80

Total Cost: 650 . Total Cost: 650 . Total Cost: 650

Required Items: . Required Items: . Required Items:

 

 

+12 Intelligence . +12 Agility . +12 Strength

+100 Health . +100 Health . +120 Health

+30 Energy . +10 Weapon Damage . +1.5 Health Regen

+0.75 Energy Regen . +3% Physical Leech . +2 Armor

 

now starting off u got the main stat which all give weapon damage to thier respective classes. intel gives bonus to most spells and energy and about 0.15 energy regen(not enough to sustain any thing). agility gives attack speed and 2 armor. strength gives health regen and higher health.

 

then you get 100 health from all but the durans buckler which gives an extra 20 health.

 

now u got 30 energy which is worth little more then 4 intel, 10 weapon damage worth 20 agility and 1.5 hp regen worth 50 strength.

 

now 30 energy isnt even enough energy to cast half a spell. 10 weapon damage is about 5 damage a second starting out. and 1.5 health regen is enough to keep u sustained in a lane.

 

0.75 energy regen(even with the 0.15 from the intel still not enough to sustain an intel hero). 3% leech which is about 3 health regen a second. and then 2 armor.

 

so in general both the buckler and the pendant can sustain a hero in a lane with health regen armor and hp. the pendant, most intel heros rank 1 spell cost 80 energy so pendant gives u enough energy for 1 1/2 spells but u will have to wait 80 seconds for u to get 80 energy back to cast another. creep waves come faster so you cast which drains faster.

 

over all durans pendant needs to be improved to allow casters to stay in a lane longer. maybe up the energy to 140-350 energy which would put it in the same stat range of the weapon damage or health regen of the other 2 items. and let the intel hero stay in the lane longer.

 

before anyone starts in. we have all seen agility heros stack machettes and roll over the enemy. ive tried it with strenght heros and bucklers and it works great specially on drake and bio. for intel heros there are very few that can get away with durans pendants and even then any hero stacking machettes or bucklers vs them still kill the intel hero. all im asking is to make it able to sustain the intel hero in a lane longer. that and buckler can probably lose the 120 hp and make it 100.

[Nuparu]

Machete needs a nerf or it needs the leech given as a unique to the item, because agi heroes stack 5 of them early game and pwn until they can afford pyre, which is kind of ridiculous imo because there's all sorts of other early game items that can be used instead but people never consider due to being able to simply stack machetes and pwn.

[NormalCoolGuy]

1 sss myself staked thoos, FUKING rpd erm

[residente]

I want Infernal, Arbalest and Psyblaster beacons. Stupid Duran's items.

[Eliwan]

I think that your opening comparison could be assisted with a table because we all know that Ekcolnovkol likes tables ;)

 

[table]

[/table]

 

Duran's Pendant please give at least 100 energy soon, okay? =[

[Takeray]

Are you spamming spells all the time to farm creeps?

 

Anyway an slight boost could be ok ,but just slight, Still can be managed that mana issues.

[GhostEU]

Personally I feed Duran's items are too good for their price:

Consider the 825 cost +18 stat items:

 

18 STR = 180 HP, 9dmg, 0.54 regen

18 AGI = 5 armor, 9 dmg, 6% as

18 INT = 162 EN, 9 dmg, 0.27 regen

 

Alternatively, read them as:

 

12 STR, 60 HP, 3 dmg, 0.17 regen

12 AGI, 2 armor, 3 dmg, 2% as

12 INT, 54 EN, 3 dmg, 0.09 regen

 

Duran's for 650 beat any of these hands down.

[NoWaterJustIce]

Personally I feed Duran's items are too good for their price:

Consider the 825 cost +18 stat items:

 

18 STR = 180 HP, 9dmg, 0.54 regen

18 AGI = 5 armor, 9 dmg, 6% as

18 INT = 162 EN, 9 dmg, 0.27 regen

 

Alternatively, read them as:

 

12 STR, 60 HP, 3 dmg, 0.17 regen

12 AGI, 2 armor, 3 dmg, 2% as

12 INT, 54 EN, 3 dmg, 0.09 regen

 

Duran's for 650 beat any of these hands down.

 

but durans items dont build into anything, whereas the items you mentioned are part of just about half the end game items, meaning that you wont be wasting any money on them. every time you buy a durans you are technically wasting 325 minerals because you will sell them at some point

[Firnefex]

I think that your opening comparison could be assisted with a table because we all know that Ekcolnovkol likes tables ;)

 

[table]

[td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td]

[td]Duran's Machette[/td][td]Duran's Buckler[/td][td]Duran's Pendant[/td]

[td]+12 Agility[/td][td]+12 Strength[/td][td]+12 Intelligence[/td]

[td]+100 Health[/td][td]+120 Health[/td][td]+100 Health[/td]

[td]+10 Weapon Damage[/td][td]+1.5 Health Regen[/td][td]+30 Energy[/td]

[td]+3% Physical Leech[/td][td]+2 Armor[/td][td]+0.75 Energy Regen[/td][/table]

 

Duran's Pendant please give at least 100 energy soon, okay? =[

Or only 50 Energy but also at least 1 Energy Regen.

[GhostEU]

but durans items dont build into anything, whereas the items you mentioned are part of just about half the end game items, meaning that you wont be wasting any money on them. every time you buy a durans you are technically wasting 325 minerals because you will sell them at some point

 

You are right, but if someone were to buy Duran's vs an 825 item, they are comparatively stronger and more likely to kill the other, so they just made up the difference. If Duran's weren't so good for their price, we also wouldn't see people stacking 3+ of them and still go on to do well in a game.

 

My feeling is that yes they can remain stronger than the 825 items, but not quite as much as they currently provide.

 

Example would be only +8 Stat instead of +12 Stat and on the AGI item make it 2% leech, STR down to 105 HP,INT item's EN from 30 to 45.

[residente]

I think that your opening comparison could be assisted with a table because we all know that Ekcolnovkol likes tables ;)

 

[table]

[td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td]

[td]Duran's Machette[/td][td]Duran's Buckler[/td][td]Duran's Pendant[/td]

[td]+12 Agility[/td][td]+12 Strength[/td][td]+12 Intelligence[/td]

[td]+100 Health[/td][td]+120 Health[/td][td]+100 Health[/td]

[td]+10 Weapon Damage[/td][td]+1.5 Health Regen[/td][td]+30 Energy[/td]

[td]+3% Physical Leech[/td][td]+2 Armor[/td][td]+0.75 Energy Regen[/td][/table]

 

Duran's Pendant please give at least 100 energy soon, okay? =[

 

I would prefer a non-stackeable with other pendants +5% spell dmg

[FruitNinja]

Stop spamming spells to farm creeps, I guess. If you are a caster you should get one/both of the energy talents and use your spells only to damage heroes or push the lane when appropriate.

The last thing we want is to give casters the ability to attackattackattack without reason just like AA heroes.

 

Pendant start + both talents gives you:

 

12 INT (84 energy, .18 energy regen)

30 energy

230 more energy

1.2 regen

 

combine this with ~30 starting INT:

0.45 regen and 210 energy

 

This gives a total of:

554 energy

2.58 energy regen

 

It should be enough, tbh.

[lOvOl]

Yah if someone feeds like mad in the first 5 minutes and a nova gets 6 duran machetes you might want to hug the towers for a while, but really I think duran items are a bad investment when compared to leeching saber, lost treasure, and miner's goggles which all together do the same thing as a machete, pendant, and buckler, just that you if you hold onto them long enough before selling them you essentially get a major item for free.

 

Duran items are not my thing because I tend to focus on builds with long-term reliability not the hopes of running into some feeder to give me my income, but that is not to say they are a bad investment if your style is to tower dive and rush the enemy very aggressively early in the game. I don't feel they are overpowered in the least bit because the easy way of countering them is to just turtle at towers for a little while till you get your first major item which is going to be superior to the investment of 6 sabers most of the time (unless you buy the wrong items).

 

On top of that, for what the duran items cost you might as well invest in consumables instead. I mean I have seen Rancor players stack pendants early on, but not even bother to buy blinkmoth serum which he can essentially get at half price. People ask me why as Rancor I will usually go 2 points in snipe, 3 in stats, and 1 in nuke early in the game (unless in long lane I get cloak for defensive reasons) and the reason is that once I hit level 6 I can go back home and buy a serum and now I have +36 int very early in the game with 30% cooldown reduction (prodigy plus serum) so that I can efficiently clear lanes with 3 nukes (usually you have to wait till level 11) or just kill stuff with early game cloaksnipe at level 9 where I have level 4 snipe and level 1 cloak, but still have my serum going.

[jamescossey]

so for the couple ppl saying stop casting spells on creep to farm. your basically saying its ok for AA heros to use thier main attack to farm but its not ok for a caster to use thier main attack to farm. hence AA heros should always out farm casters

[FruitNinja]

so for the couple ppl saying stop casting spells on creep to farm. your basically saying its ok for AA heros to use thier main attack to farm but its not ok for a caster to use thier main attack to farm. hence AA heros should always out farm casters

 

No, I'm saying that you should use your own unlimited autoattack to last-hit creeps, and laugh as your mid ganks the AA heroes that constantly attack and push the lane.

 

Then you use your spells to kill them since they can't store up anything special with their attack.

 

As for mid, you send a pusher mid so he can push the lane to buy time for a gank without losing the tower. Unix/bio/tass/maybe vergil all fit this. :)

[GhostEU]

Duran's items after more thought aren't really a loss of 325.

You almost always keep them until you are ready to buy your last item (i.e. useful for 45+ mins) so you are benefitting from higher stats per minerals compared to someone who didn't buy Duran's. And by the time you do buy your last item, minerals have become irrelevant anyway.

 

So it would be always a good investment to buy 1-2 early on compared to going diectly for your first major item. On AGI/STR anyway

[Nuparu]

Fruit, on your pusher list, you forgot the most powerful one, Marine King.

[FruitNinja]

Fruit, on your pusher list, you forgot the most powerful one, Marine King.

 

Mk's ganks are so-so from my experience. They're not bad, but he's better at just pushing so hard that the enemy mid can't gank at all without losing both towers, which is basically 1.5 kills for every player on the team, not including MK's farm from the push.

 

But yes, I did forget about him.