Pub Stomping All STR Teams

[Legacy]

I really hate it while playing against a pubstomp group who has kerri,lz,vorpal,mk and cow or some other kind of all STR team. Its really overpowered because your casters deal jack, its hard to rush pyre effectively, and they tank EVERYTHING! I was just wondering if you guy had any counter to all STR teams because imo they are kinda overpowered.

[TungVu]

Yes, I think all STR heroes should be removed to make this game more balanced. Please refer to my associate doxthefox's thread about AGI heroes for my argument/reason. Thanks.

[Itsthatguy]

You pick the same heroes to DUH.

[BestPlayer]

You pick the same heroes to DUH.

 

Allow me to construct some similar, but grammatically correct, sentences you could have used:

 

You pick the same heroes, duh.

 

You pick those heroes too, duh.

 

@OP I find that using Geneva in pub makes the tanks much easier to kill, just spam the skills and you'll be fine if your team is competent.

[Divinesashi]

Those premade scrubs pft. It is so low to play pub in a party and stomp the enemy team like that yarrr - no skill in this go learn to play scrubs. Those elitist jerks think they are good at this game lol so bad why you in party wtfbbq yo. Noone should play with friends like that to prove their epeen in an online game lolscrublife.

 

*in before owl's another premade-hate post*

 

Much <3 Div

[doxthefox]

^ reached maximum likes for the day... but likes this

[Harvest]

Allow me to construct some similar, but grammatically correct, sentences you could have used:

 

 

 

 

 

@OP I find that using Geneva in pub makes the tanks much easier to kill, just spam the skills and you'll be fine if your team is competent.

 

his post was grammatically correct NT

[lOvOl]

OK, this might sound unintuitive, but the way you counter tanky heroes is going tanky yourself. Much of the time they build their heroes with little DPS and focus on building their heroes in such a way that all the damage is done by their weak spells and feedback to your hero via barbed plating and electric mantle and maybe superheated mantle as well. So you want to have a build with solid spell resist and health yourself with of course a pyre as well.

 

Casters can often be built as some of the best general purpose tanks because their abilities do good base damage already whereas many strength heroes do very little base damage with their abilities so in other words you can damage them significantly but they can't damage you because your items trump their ability to harm you.

 

A general purpose AA tanky build (what I use for DARPA usually but works on any ranged hero):

 

Pyre

Sliptyde Scythe

Ihan Crystal

Organic Carapace

Barbed Plating

Electric Mantle

Executioner's Axe

 

A good pure tank caster build is:

 

Superheated Mantle

Ihan Crystal

Khaydarin Absorber

Barbed Plating

Nitrogen Refit

Organic Carapace

Electric Mantle / Lifetech

 

Depends on hero, though Khaydarin is usually necessary for mana due to a low mana pool with this build. When going tank raynor, Khaydarin is necessary because of the high mana cost of his ultimate. One fun fact about Raynor is that when you mark an enemy attacking you, they take 52 burn damage a second from superheated (as opposed to 40 damage) and take 65% from barbed plating (as opposed to 50%). Of course the enemy hero can get a parallax, but that screws over Raynor's mark even if he is all intel or built for DPS.

 

Your only other option is to have very high mobility and crit damage and enough leech to sustain barbed feedback. In addition to crit items you need a warp shard or impact dial and very high speed so that you never get snagged (cause if you do, you are instedead).

 

So here is a good caster crit build (very expensive though and takes a lot of farm).

 

(1) Pyre

(2) Warp Shard

(3) Sunflare Gun

(4) Ihan Crystal

(5) Warp Shard -> Small Hadron Collider

(6) Arcbound Ravager

(7) Arcbound Ravager

(8) Khali Blade

 

This gets you to the attack speed cap and gives you 100% crit chance with 60% crit damage and 20% leech which is enough to mitigate some of the feedback you will receive from barbed. You will be super squishy so you have to have quick fingers and good micro not to get snagged, though you will be pretty fast with two arcbounds on you late game. The sunflare active is also good for softening up tanky heroes to finish off with your AA attack and skills.

[doxthefox]

^ Correct to a high degree

+10 for Griffindor

 

Basic idea, pyre counters HP. Getting hp/int from ihan makes you slightly tanky/spells do more damage. Get damage items = win game?

 

New questions:

1) Are electric mantle/barbed plating/executioner's axe too strong?

2) Is the fact that it's easier to farm with agil characters than strength/int characters (not named unix) a counter debate to how effective these items are?

3) Is the fact that it doesn't matter how many times you die you will get your items eventually anyway a counter-counter debate?

3) What type of balance will make skill > items.

4) Does farming for items take more skill for certain heroes?

5) Is the skill cap ceiling so low that we can step on it?

6) Should we remove all strength heroes and agil heroes too?

7) Is DOX trolling?

[BestPlayer]

his post was grammatically correct NT

 

No, it wasn't.

[Legacy]

Well, i just find it kinda stupid because many pubbies love to only follow thier "perfect" build, so its very annoying. But really the only counters are 5 pyres and sunflare guns.

[FruitNinja]

Sunflare on every hero, pyre on everyone with an autoattack (don't get one on queen), build 3000hp or so on everyone, or 2000 and lots of armor/SR if the enemy is doing mainly one damage type.

[MarXX]

come to think of it, if 4 heros shoot sunflares at the same target, that target is pretty much dead right? 4 x 25%? lets not even count the base damage of sunflare. in theory its supposed to work, not considering buffs and etc,

but has anyone tried this in a real game?

[Chimera]

come to think of it, if 4 heros shoot sunflares at the same target, that target is pretty much dead right? 4 x 25%? lets not even count the base damage of sunflare. in theory its supposed to work, not considering buffs and etc,

but has anyone tried this in a real game?

 

Remember, the SFG active deals 25% of Current HP plus the additional 400 spell damage. Though it will still probably take out at least a 3K HP target or something.

[MarXX]

oh right, i missed the current part. ty.

[Midknight]

Sunflare to start off, preferably one someone with a spell-damage supplement such as Nitrogen, Argus, and/or Yamato, then everyone else wail on them with Pyres. If they start stacking SR, grab a Gravity. Even a caster with moderate attack speed can be effective if your team is up against meat-heavy opponents and most casters will have spell-supplementing items such as the aforementioned Nitrogen, Argus, Yamato, and Gravity which will ramp up Pyre's damage. Basically, fight cheese with cheese.

[Ironsights]

Casters can shred tanks, you jsut have to do it right.

 

Gravity's Edge is a great start to doing it right. So is yamato reactor and argus crystal. Don't forget, your first non-start item should be an ihan. pretty soon, tanks are getting bled out pretty fast.

 

And of course AGI can slaughter tanks, you just cant do it the way you are used to, because Strength heroes can easily build as a counter to leeching glass cannons. Instead, build for sustainable DPS.

[Eliwan]

Fun fact-- if you get Ihan by the 10 minute mark or so, even "squishy INT casters" have more Health than "Tank semi-DPS" characters around the 20 minute mark [b/c Ihan gives 650 Health and that's quite a lot for <30 minutes]...

[akanna]

Fun fact-- if you get Ihan by the 10 minute mark or so, even "squishy INT casters" have more Health than "Tank semi-DPS" characters around the 20 minute mark [b/c Ihan gives 650 Health and that's quite a lot for <30 minutes]...

 

The only way to get IHAN by 10 mins is to rack up a bunch of assists/kills, it usually takes at least 15-20 otherwise

 

But more importantly rushing Ihan first is not a good idea for casters as it significantly handicaps your overall damage (even though it does keep you alive longer) Its much better for a caster to go for argus first then get IHAN even though you miss out on the health aspect of things early on, simply because you will do far more damage, get far more kills, and level faster overall.

 

I have tested it both ways on many occasions to confirm this (because I used to rush IHAN first till someone corrected me)

 

If you need some extra health or mana buy the rings that make up ihan, but keep your primary focus on that argus to increase your damage output, if health is really is causing you problems and you already have the ring, hug the tower they deal true damage anyways and casters have pretty solid spell range so it wont affect your abilities to harass and kill.

 

------------------

As for this thread yes tank heavy teams can be annoying, your best bet is to go for early harass (before they get tanky) and then try to tower hug more as they tank up (since they wont do a lot of dps, but the tower will add to your damage)

 

The best counter to tanks is generally agi heros with prye and crit, but casters can rock sunflare gun and get a prye to help out some too while focusing on that mass spell damage to burst them down. Because you are facing a tank heavy team you will usually need to build a bit more tanky yourself to counter. you should also rock out shrapnel cloaks etc as needed since most tanks do not have spells that do all that much damage, and most of their damage comes from AA / reflection using things like barbed

 

In all honesty your team composition is probably the reason you have trouble (outside of the fact they may be premade)

Heros like Raynor and Cain are amazing for messing up strength heavy teams.

 

Really Id be far more worried about medic heavy teams these days as they can make carrys dam near immortal at times ;)

 

EDIT:

I will say however that facing a brine micro LZ combo is super b.i.t.c.h.y bc micro tosses you into a brine tentacle that drags you into LZs ring where you are trapped and die. I played against a premade that did this and their other 2 were Unix and MK. We got roflstomped into oblivion. Unix and MK pushed stupid hard together and the micro brine LZ combo kept sniping our players off with tower pulls early on and later in game we were just sitting ducks for MK and Unix bc of LZ, Brine, and Micro.

I will say It is one of the few games I have ever been in where I literally felt like there was nothing I could do to stop them

One micro got you you were guaranteed to die bc of the combo stun and fungal from brine and unix as well as the sheer dps from the MK Unix minions + unix ult while you were trapped in LZs ring.

Easily the most b.i.t.c.h.y team I have ever faced to date

 

Nothing worked, bc If you silenced and focused down the micro, you still end up loosing bc MK and Unix are busy pushing all your towers while you do it. And if you didn't focus him down, you got tossed into a death trap 1 by 1. Should also point out he used SHC so you got stunned on warp in and couldn't do anything to stop the toss, so it was literally like 5-10 seconds or more of you not being able to do a dam thing because you got stunned as he warped in, stunned as brine dragged you, and then fungaled by unix, and that whole time minions were AAing you. When you finally could input any actions again you were inside LZs ring being ulted by unix while LZ wailed on you and minions layed into you (assuming you didn't die before fungal wore off).

 

So yeah if youre looking to be an ass that should be your goto team comp, its stupid strong

[God]

GRRRRRR

[Yaldi]

But more importantly rushing Ihan first is not a good idea for casters as it significantly handicaps your overall damage (even though it does keep you alive longer) Its much better for a caster to go for argus first then get IHAN even though you miss out on the health aspect of things early on, simply because you will do far more damage, get far more kills, and level faster overall.

 

Good luck doing damage when you are dead

[Firnefex]

^Also you have not that great Energy Regen.

Ihan is good for its price and you can sell it at about 25min mark, then you maybe have enough for Argus, had for sure an easier early game (mana issues) and +Health and INT, only Argus a bit delayed...

But some heroes doesn't really need Ihan, so its up to you! ;-)

[VasyaKot]

If you have 5 str heros on enemy team you should go the double hero glictch (maybe you can create 5 same heros lol), go for some stupid 5 shadow combo and reduce everything to dust.

[doxthefox]

If you have 5 str heros on enemy team you should go the double hero glictch (maybe you can create 5 same heros lol), go for some stupid 5 shadow combo and reduce everything to dust.

 

-tm ?

[EterNity]

All you need is get all your teammate to buy Sunflare so, when a team fight starts, your team can instant kill one enemy hero and then run till your cooldown is off.