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Ironhide.Cain issues


Ioncloud
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I played cain for about 20 games yesterday and I think he is a well balanced powerful character. However, my main gripe with him is his ultimate. Its way too easy to avoid and when its avoided, all queued up damage is wasted. Its not like avoiding it is even intentional either. Teleports, vortex, cloaking, heck it seems like the missiles don't even hit shadow in shadow walk or when he is teleport/jumping attacking. Its completely useless against zeratul without detection since he is cloaked up far before you can queue up enough shots to kill him. Which brings me to my next point. The damage threshold for the unfreezing. Since it was so hit or miss on the ult, I just resorted to just firing on them to make sure that I could actually hit them but the freeze would break after 1 or 2 shots. So one of these has to be fixed. Another weird quirk I noticed that isn't really related to balance. Cain behaves strangely to the attack command. serveral times when freezing a target he ignores the target as if it wasn't there and walks up next to it even if you press A and click on the character or right click on it. It wasn't all the time, but enough to be frustrating.

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Lol is this thread serious or what. If its a bug that cloaks and blinks evade dat rockets then it shouldnt be fixed. Ironhide can towerdive because of that, tower will not aggro him. You can slow, your AAs deal insane dmg with that stacks. His early game is a nightmare for any low hp hero. His ult costs 15 mana lmao.

 

Dat skill adds like 95 or its 135 dmg at lvl16? Do u imagine if you couldnt evade then? LOL

Q 3.3 sec stun or so then press R+E and lol.

 

Oh I had an idea: buy taser and the game will be for you.

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Oh the irony...

You say he's balanced, yet you come here complaining about how easy his missiles are dodged & etc.

Now if they weren't wouldn't that make him stronger, say - too powerful?

Well yes. I was considering some of the dodging partially broken or due to the way the system calculates damage to cloaked characters. ie it doesn't. But my point is it kind of makes the ult pointless if there is a very good chance your missiles will be dodged and the target survives vs going for the guaranteed damage of not using the ult. I do like the ult in beating opponents with crazy lifesteal, but pretty much all of them have an escape that causes the missiles to miss anyway. The point is, its not reliable damage and can cost you a team fight or the game because of I don't know your own zeratul voiding the battle causing everyone to move and the 8 stacks of missiles to be a waste of time.
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Oh the irony...

You say he's balanced, yet you come here complaining about how easy his missiles are dodged & etc.

Now if they weren't wouldn't that make him stronger, say - too powerful?

 

I will post that until you come up with a non contradict argument.

Besides, Residente said everything significant.

Cain tends to be one of the stronger heroes.

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I do not see this thread conduct to any interesting suggestion.

 

As you said, he's fine.

Let me rephrase it since it obviously is too much to handle. He is a good character against most non-teleporting, cloaking, vortexing, or otherwise any hero that causes people to move, which is half or less of heroes. I wouldn't mind the cloaking or vortex causing the missiles to miss heck even the jumping away at the last second causing them to miss just like raynor. What would be a constructive change would be to increase the mana cost of the ult, remove the damage threshold of the freeze, and keep missiles tracked on to people after they are moved by teleport or vortex or pull. Otherwise using the ult can be pointless when the person is moved or jumps or something else influences the fight and you are standing there with your pants down and your dick hanging out because now they are full health and all the damage you queued up was wasted. I don't think any other hero has the problem of that. Suppose Cyprus' ult only damaged people 20% of the time?
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I don't think making it unevadable is the answer, but shap EVERYTHING doges his ult, its so frustrating, i don't think if someone cloaks they just shouldnt hit him... I can understand like teles and stuff like that, but even zera planar dodges it, shadows shade dodges, flobing everything.

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I get your point a little better now,

you want it to hit at a higher probability but with less damage? Alright, I get that.

But seriously, Cain has good other skills making him (as residente said) a nightmare for squishies.

So, if you know your ultimate will get dodged, why use it after all? It's not like you'd have to rely on your ultimate 100%.

Anyway, versus those that cannon avoid the missiles, they hit very hard. Hard enough to make up for the uselessness on those that can.

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Sad thing is if it would hit regardless of cloak, there would be another thread called Ironhide.Cain OP.

It's all said...

He's fine.

Besides, that'd mean his missiles were like dustin's missiles, and i don't know if it is possible to make them hit cloaked units & not hit teleported units. If they change anything i hope it means that his damage on missiles is nerfed a lot.

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late game i dont even use R with cain. Just freeze and unleash super fast attacks = dead

 

 

Just lol... So sad...

Really gtfo! U must be a real god! Or wait u play against bots? And dont need ur ult? Really lol....

To topic:

 

Cain is well balanced. U just need to use every skill right. Its like baiting a void or a port, the then use ur ult after, and stuff. Its not about items, its just about knowledge and prediction. Therefor noobs wont get that good with him, coz they dont use everything he gives.

Hes my most loved champ. He is the best :)

 

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