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Masamune buff?


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Intended. Note you also missed the other buff. Masamune had -20% Spell and Physical Resistance. Now it is only -20% Physical Resistance.

 

I did type it in the changelog chat and other ppl agreed, but not everyone reads it :P (And who does)

 

-edit- a lot of things are typed in the changelog. Only so much can be typed i guess :P This change was from quite awhile ago. I think it was when the Jungle got in place and crackling was placed. Something like that. I can't remmeber.

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Intended. Note you also missed the other buff. Masamune had -20% Spell and Physical Resistance. Now it is only -20% Physical Resistance.

 

I did type it in the changelog chat and other ppl agreed, but not everyone reads it :P (And who does)

 

-edit- a lot of things are typed in the changelog. Only so much can be typed i guess :P This change was from quite awhile ago. I think it was when the Jungle got in place and crackling was placed. Something like that. I can't remmeber.

 

ok thanks

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No more negative spell resist buff. Well considering how armor is kinda OP at the moment one could argue this item might not be so bad if you simply stack agility items for attack speed and damage on an agility hero as you will be getting plenty of armor as well.

 

1 armor = 3% resist i believe all you need to do is invest in the 8 armor talent to get 24% dmg resist, to help negate the -20%

 

also any agi carry will buy a time splitter etc..

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I thought 1 armour point gave +3% physical resist? In which case the 8 armour talent would give just under +27% physical resist, not +24%. Then, if you added a masamune (-20% physical resist), your overall physical resist would be just over +1%. So the talent will completely negate the masamune.

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Note that armor currently stacks in this equation:

 

X = Amount of Armor

 

0.97^X

If you have 8 armor, you take 78.374335943% Physical damage from enemies (About 21.63% Physical Resist) -20% basicly means Mutiple by 1.2.

0.7837*1.2 = 0.94044 (About 6% Physical Resistance). If you stack it more, it continues. 80% Physical Resistance and the a masamune will result in you having 76% Physical Resistance.

P.S. 53 Armor = about 80% Physical Resistance, which isn't uncommon on AGI heroes. [80.1% Physical Resist]. A Masamune is like nothing to the physical damage you take if you got armor.

 

Note: If you actually do the math, with 50 Armor, a normal AGI hero will deal more damage to a 80% Physical Resistance unit than a Caster dealing damage to a 0% spell resistant unit (If you count Cooldown, and damage per second. And that also doesn't count the damage from pyre and other items, but assuming AGI hero has about 350 - 400 atk at max attack speed).

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Idk, I think Masamune is quite noticeable on the Phys debuff.

 

Was dueling another shadow and I was owning him until I bought Masamune and sold a crit item at which point I was getting killed regularly. He didn't have isomorph while I did. Same leech.

Reason: I had less true damage chance but more phys while he remained on same phys/crit but i wa taking more phys from masamune

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Idk, I think Masamune is quite noticeable on the Phys debuff.

 

Was dueling another shadow and I was owning him until I bought Masamune and sold a crit item at which point I was getting killed regularly. He didn't have isomorph while I did. Same leech.

Reason: I had less true damage chance but more phys while he remained on same phys/crit but i wa taking more phys from masamune

While going down 4% in physical resistance may not seem like a lot in 80%, you still go down a 20%. If an enemy deals 500 physical but only 100 after resistance, he will then deal 120 damage (still 20% more). Makes sense that it would still have a noticeable different. (Like how they made zeratuls ultra to 80% to 90%, that +10% buff was a change in timescale on a target by a good 50%.)

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Take into account that every hero has build in 15% spell and physical resistance as well. Anyway armor is to high. There are higher AGI items but AGI->armor formula hasn't changed. In effect isn't hard to reach over 60 armor which is ridiculous amount. Formula has to be changed to nerf armor grow per AGI point or armor formula itself. Physical damage almost doesn't exist late game during AA. There are only true damage from criticals and spell damage from Pyre/Explosive. Physical damage is useful only against casters. It would be nice if there be some kind of items or abilities which could reduce armor.

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The armour formula that Itsthatguy used doesn't make a whole lot of sense. The one I posted works better. To calculate how much damage you take, the formula 0.97^armour kind of fails. A better one is 2 - 1.03^armour, since each point of armour gives +3% physical resist.

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1 armor = 3% resist i believe all you need to do is invest in the 8 armor talent to get 24% dmg resist, to help negate the -20%

 

also any agi carry will buy a time splitter etc..

 

LOL!

 

You incessantly lecture me about how to play the game and how I am not worth squat because I don't "in house" and yet you don't even have a clue about the basic mechanics of the game?

 

ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

The physical damage taken from increasing levels of armor is not linear as pretty much everyone in this thread has just pointed out to you. Now before you continue to routinely harass someone such as myself in every post they make here and nitpick everything they have to say just for the sake of discrediting them, you might want to learn the basics of the game first.

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The armour formula that Itsthatguy used doesn't make a whole lot of sense. The one I posted works better. To calculate how much damage you take, the formula 0.97^armour kind of fails. A better one is 2 - 1.03^armour, since each point of armour gives +3% physical resist.

Except 1.03^X yields armor values that increase per point of armor instead of decreasing-- watch!

 

[Table is: 1,2,3,4,5,10 points of Armor]

[table]

[/table]

 

Note: The one on the left is the one used by the actual game

 

Basically since each point of armor has diminishing returns, it needs to be a number 0<X<1 that is raised to powers opposed to a number X>1.

 

Now to calculate your actual resistance, you just do 1 - 0.97^Armor. And use that to determine if you will be killed. If you're trying to get kills you need to multiply again by 0.8 because heroes have base resistance of 20%; and so make sure to do that. :D

 

Anyway, for Masamune, it does this to the formula:

[Y = Physical Damage incoming]

Y * (0.97^Armor) * 0.8 * [bonuses to flat Physical Resistance such as Korhal Vanguard [8%, * 0.92], LZ's Charisma [10%, * 0.9, etc.] * 1.2 [<- Masamune]

 

Basically what Masamune does is remove hero base resistance (* 0.96 from * 0.8 -- From 20% to 4%). ;D

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I see why the developers would want armour to give diminishing returns, hence why they use that formula. But it really isn't consistent with what the tool tip for AGI says: each point of armour grants +3% physical resist. If that was actually true than my formula would be used, and armour would be a lot more powerful.

 

If you think about it, let p_0 be the physical resist of the hero at any time you like (start of game, mid game whatever), then when you add some armour (call it x) to the hero (from items or AGI etc) then the new physical resist would be:

 

p(x) = p_0*(1.03)^x

 

i.e. each point of armour is increasing your physical resist by 3%, just like what the tool tip says.

 

To factor in masamune just multiply by 0.8.

 

So if y is the incoming physical damage, then the actual damage that you take (call it z) would be:

 

z = y*(1-0.01*p(x))

 

 

imo this is how the mechanics of the game should be. Or just change the tool tip on the AGI so it tells you what the armour is actually doing.

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Each point of armor reduces the damage you take by 3% of what's left after the last point of armor. So if you have 100 damage incoming and 10 points of armor:

 

First point cuts 3% off 100

Second point cuts 3% off 97

Third cuts 3% off 94.09

Fourth cuts 3% off 91.2673

...

Tenth cuts 3% off 76.02

For a final damage value of 73.7 which is then cut by 20% innate heroic resist to 59

 

You have it entirely reversed, Mus. That's not how it "should" work. It "should" work precisely the way it "does" work.

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@Mus: It would have to either be linear or diminishing-- otherwise it wouldn't make sense that "1 Armor = +3% Physical Resistance". Now if it was 3/6/9/12/15/18/21/24/27/30/33/36/39/42/45/48/51/54/57/60/63/66/69/72/75/78/81/84/87/90/93/96/99/100% Physical Resistance we would have a slight problem, no?

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@Eliwan: What I said is not linear at all, nor is it diminishing. 1 armour is +3% physical resist, so the pattern actually goes like:

3/6.09/9.2727/... etc. That is how you actually compound percentages. With this method, it is clear than armour gives the opposite of diminishing returns, the more you get the better it is.

 

edit: The main problem is that the method that the game uses will result in a false value of physical resists. My method gives the true value of the physical resist.

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Take into account that every hero has build in 15% spell and physical resistance as well. Anyway armor is to high. There are higher AGI items but AGI->armor formula hasn't changed. In effect isn't hard to reach over 60 armor which is ridiculous amount. Formula has to be changed to nerf armor grow per AGI point or armor formula itself. Physical damage almost doesn't exist late game during AA. There are only true damage from criticals and spell damage from Pyre/Explosive. Physical damage is useful only against casters. It would be nice if there be some kind of items or abilities which could reduce armor.

 

I'm pretty sure every hero has 20% Natural Spell resist and 0% Physical Resist. All physical resist then would come from natural starting armor and AGI. Thats why heroes with low low armor die so fast early game to AGI heroes.

 

@Eliwan: What I said is not linear at all, nor is it diminishing. 1 armour is +3% physical resist, so the pattern actually goes like:

3/6.09/9.2727/... etc. That is how you actually compound percentages. With this method, it is clear than armour gives the opposite of diminishing returns, the more you get the better it is.

If it worked like that, you would be taking 0 Damage from physical damage by 24 armor. If you actually got higher armor, you would start getting hp (If it somehow worked in absorbing). 40 Armor would be 400% Physical resistance = +300% Hp restore from each physical attack. Something like that :P

 

Armor equation is: 0.97^Armor. In previous versions it actually would list it this way when 1 armor use to be 0.9967 physical resistance (with 1200 armor). which it would go in an equation 0.9967^Armor Ect. Ect.

 

When making this, you must note that Physical Damage equals 1. Linear or stacking resistance wise would not work in any way, unless it was incrediably small where you could never even get close to 100%, even with pure resist items.

(Note that getting spell resist equal to 100% doesn't mean you have 100% or more spell resistance. Spell resistance works the same way.)

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