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How do you guys feel about Voltron?


teej
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To answer all your questions on WHY this is my first post:

Yes, this is after Voltron manhandled us singlehandedly.

No, this is NOT the only time I've seen him do that.

Yes, almost every pub game I play that HAS a Voltron completely kills the other team, at least in terms of number of kills.

 

To get to my point:

The following scenario always seems to happen:

Voltron activates Mirror Force and Ult. He then chases every hero in retreat. This is where his movespeed comes in. I have no quarrel with this. It's part of his game. What I DO have a problem with though, is, the fact that he can singlehandedly kill 3-4 heroes. Isn't the meaning of "balanced" NOT being able to kill 3-4 heroes by yourself?? It's also excruciatingly difficult to ATTEMPT to counter him, as his Mirror Force can counter 70% of incoming damage.

 

Of course, I have played WITH Voltron users. Late game, he is practically unstoppable. He's semi tanky, so any damage with his mirror force on is reflected and he's still fine.

As a result, most DPS characters that try to kill him end up killing themselves. And on to my last point: I feel that his ult is really strong with Nitrogen Retrofit. His spell damage, speed, and slow of Nitro Fit makes it impossible for any character without a running ability to get away.

 

I know I went on a really big rant here, but I'd appreciate some clarity as to whether or not Voltron is balanced.

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To answer all your questions on WHY this is my first post:

Yes, this is after Voltron manhandled us singlehandedly.

No, this is NOT the only time I've seen him do that.

Yes, almost every pub game I play that HAS a Voltron completely kills the other team, at least in terms of number of kills.

 

To get to my point:

The following scenario always seems to happen:

Voltron activates Mirror Force and Ult. He then chases every hero in retreat. This is where his movespeed comes in. I have no quarrel with this. It's part of his game. What I DO have a problem with though, is, the fact that he can singlehandedly kill 3-4 heroes. Isn't the meaning of "balanced" NOT being able to kill 3-4 heroes by yourself?? It's also excruciatingly difficult to ATTEMPT to counter him, as his Mirror Force can counter 70% of incoming damage.

 

Of course, I have played WITH Voltron users. Late game, he is practically unstoppable. He's semi tanky, so any damage with his mirror force on is reflected and he's still fine.

As a result, most DPS characters that try to kill him end up killing themselves. And on to my last point: I feel that his ult is really strong with Nitrogen Retrofit. His spell damage, speed, and slow of Nitro Fit makes it impossible for any character without a running ability to get away.

 

I know I went on a really big rant here, but I'd appreciate some clarity as to whether or not Voltron is balanced.

How does his ultimate work? How long does his Mirror active last? What is the CD on his Mirror?

Answer: Shrapnel...

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They all last a surprising long time. Furthermore, Shrapnel seems to have no effect on him CHASING you. I think mirror lasts for like 5 seconds? Not entirely sure. His ult lasts for 15 i THINK.

His speed is still so fast that the three seconds gets you nowhere.

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Very simple. Just get a lockbox, once he uses mirror force, lockbox him. By the time he comes out mirror force will be almost over, at which point you can kill him. Also, unlike Tosh, Shadow, Zeratul, Darpa, Cain, and pretty much every other AA hero, Leo hasn't got any CC to throw at you, and while he's fast, he's also melee. Ofc a good Voltron would probably have SHC, but for every tank/utility item he has, his DPS is that much less, and so is the threat presented by him.

 

EDIT: in reply to your last post, mirror force lasts 4 seconds, ult lasts 12. He only moves fast when someone is <45% hp, so you should have no problem avoiding damage, provided you don't tank his ult. Pretty much pretend it's an Egon that prematurely used his ult. Just back out, then attack.

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Best Counters Versus Leo

 

- Dark Steel Titan

- Nitrogen + Barb (Eh, super heated much better tho)

- Super heated + Barb

- Shrapnel Cloak

- Lockbox

You have a problem killing him? Get a shadowmourne, since the clone will deal damage, Mirror force will not effect you. You can also make him fall for an issue by getting a bandit artifice to waste a mirror force, and the clone will still deal decent damage to him.

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I think it was a rather underrated show and enjoyed watching it as a kid....although if I watched it now I'd probably think younger me was retarded for liking it

 

O wait the hero....

 

He is nowhere near as broken as he used to be, but is is still very strong.

All the movement speed items + new talents make him very hard to pin down, and he can easily rape you with ult and mirror force if you aren't careful

 

Shrapnel is a good counter but most voltrons will simply kite away and come back in 3 seconds so it doesnt really do much for bursting him down, it does however buy you time till mirror force wears off (it only lasts 4 seconds)

The attack speed cap boost def bosted the DPS of his ult a bit

 

Overall I have seen a steady rise in voltron play and domination in the recent months, but I don't know if that's indicative of the need for any changes

 

If anything I felt like he was horribly UP for awhile and is just now coming out of it...

 

As for your comments on him killing 3-4 heros, its really not any different from a shadow doing the same thing, cept voltron doesnt blink everywhere so much that he cant be targeted by anything, I think the problem is you are trying to run, which is the worst thing your team can do against voltron bc he will always chase you down. Its far better for everyone to stand their ground and lay into him. If you time your shrapnels right he should not beat a team of 3-4 DPS heros under any circumstances, if you are all casters...well you screwed yourselves by having a bad team comp (altho raynor and cyprus are pretty good vs voltron, and that new medic heros is straight up gangsta against him)

 

Seriously I played DPS geneva and solo'd voltron and kerri at the same time, wasnt even fair

Invulnerability tells mirror force to suck it

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If you use a bad build on your hero, he can own you pretty easily. Make room for a utility item or two such as lockbox or shrap or even warpshard/impact dial and then counter him. Either that or going pure tank with decent spell resist and barbed can work wonders as well.

 

I've seen tanks with more than 5k hp with decent spell resist get slaughtered by voltron in less than 5 seconds though...

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Countering leo, you've got 3 options, if your a burst dmg dealer such as rancor grab a lockbox, he charges you with mirror force lockbox him, proceed to rape him after lockbox and mirror force wear off. If your an AA carry such as darpa or nova, silence him proceed to rape as his AA isnt very scary without his skills. If your a tank, shrapnel and stuns are your friend and will let your teamates slaughter him while you screw with him.

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Thanks for the insight. Is there any hero that actually COUNTERS Voltron? I still feel strongly against Voltron haha

 

Nova (ult)

Geneva (ult)

Cain (ult + freeze shot)

Zera (ult)

Boros (ss and ult)

Unix (ult + fungal)

Cyprus (ult + wall)

Raynor (if you time the silence right and have some DPS)

Drake (martyr and ult till late game)

Micro (toss)

Null (forcefields and stun)

Jack (mines and stun work pretty well early game)

Tosh (ult + stuns)

Rory (ult + stun)

Tassadar (send in clone first, then swap in before it dies, usually wastes his mirror force and some of the ult)

Garamond (LB + stun + Ult counters pretty much anyone that isnt a tank)

 

Any hero with a well timed shrapnel or taser and an axe (bc most ppl build for leech)

Any tank with barbed and axe (and some spell resist)

 

Shadowmourne (if he has high dps)

 

Thats about all that readily comes to mind as a direct "counter"

 

Volron AAs at point blank so any amount of stuns or wall offs hardcounter him bc he can be shot but cant fight back, and silence stops his mirror force and ult from going off. As long as you dont attack him with mirror force up hes really not that scary...his ult is his only ranged attack, and that can of course rape lots of people at once but if he cant attack he cant proc it. If you think about it mirror force is just a slightly buffed barbed plating (that also reflects spell damage)

 

He is one of the few melee heros that doesn't have a mechanism to close the gap on his targets (unless their health is low), so a lot of people build him with extra movement speed.

 

If hes attacking hes wide open for a number of counters. Really the only thing thats challenging sometimes is pinning him down in between mirror forces and ults. He moves stupid fast if built right.

 

I suppose you could also use bandits to troll out his mirror force and ult, but nobody really uses that item so its kinda a waste...

 

But yeah since there is guaranteed to be a geneva in every game atm, I really wouldnt sweat voltron much, invulnerability counters everything ;)

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Question: Does mirror force echo damage in an AoE around Leo? Because I had a Tosh in a pub game blame me for his death because I used Soul Drain on Leo to peel him off Tosh.

 

That said, Tass with nitrofit is pretty good at getting Leo off of people since all Leo has is a speed boost. Leo is one of the few carries that are actually really vulnerable to slows, the others being Nova, Toxi, and maybe Tosh when his ult is down (you can still charge through Zera's ult with it, right?).

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@teej

 

A hero to counter voltron?

 

Tychus.

 

First, you use your jugger to mitigate incoming damage, then during battle you heal yourself, then when voltron tries to run you grenade his ass for the kill.

 

after listening to some advice from a different thread (and testing it in game) I figure this build on tychus should work you wonders against any single AA hero:

 

explosive retrofit (for farming) barbed plating, shrapnel cloak, executioner's Axe (if they have leech), force of entropy, organic carapace

 

against leo, activate your jugger once he closes on you, hit shrap once he fires his ulti, then beat stick him into oblivion. If he tries to run, as said before, slow him down and finish it.

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I used to play Leo few month ago. Stop using it after Null was introduced as this is just impossible if Null Player any good. Now Geneva is in I guess Leo is not you first choice.

I think now the only way to play it is pure ganker. I have seen few good Leo's recently and usually they rush cloak for ganks. In team-fights they stay behind and engage later to finish those who lost hp in team fight and get snowballing items and fed. But now snowballing is nerfed so idk what they do now.

I play tanks and only die to Leo if he caught me off guard with low hp and my abilities/items on CD so he can kill me very fast. So its lot like Shadow

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Nova (ult)

Geneva (ult)

Cain (ult + freeze shot)

Zera (ult)

Boros (ss and ult)

Unix (ult + fungal)

Cyprus (ult + wall)

Raynor (if you time the silence right and have some DPS)

Drake (martyr and ult till late game)

Micro (toss)

Null (forcefields and stun)

Jack (mines and stun work pretty well early game)

Tosh (ult + stuns)

Rory (ult + stun)

Tassadar (send in clone first, then swap in before it dies, usually wastes his mirror force and some of the ult)

Garamond (LB + stun + Ult counters pretty much anyone that isnt a tank)

 

 

+ LZ (W for the sake of keeping Leo away from you)

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I think Voltron is under-rated by so many people, both IH and Pub. Post nerf he is still an amazing hero, I swear his ulti hits more than it should..But still I've demonstrated his power time and time again in IH, even though many people laugh at me picking him. Good players understand that he is a strong hero who is very good at suddenly bursting into the scene and dealing mass dps, while having like 3-4k hp.

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Im pretty sure that mid late game leo has the highest dmg output possible of any hero and he might be getting a slight dmg nerf to his ulti soon.

 

On a side note, how many hero's can leo kill in the 2.75 seconds of Geneva's ult while he is invincible?

 

 

All of them o.O

 

This actually did happen in a game where whale was playing kittie and went 18-2. Oh and i was the one that pressed R :D

 

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In my opinion, as I build him. Leo is a soft-Tank Anti AA

 

leo has the highest dmg out put late game period. its something like 12,000 dmg in 10 seconds.

 

A proper way to achieve this would be yamato argus, nitro, pyre, masamune, time splitter, " with ihan stacks" you buy it first or second then sell later

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I feel leo is op, he's underplayed in ih so i dont really care. When i face him in pubs i do care and cry op and its the end of that.

I think the 70% reflect should be after migration and not before then he's fine.

Zeratul(tosh also might) can 1 v 1 him rest just dies if he times his reflect atm.

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leo has the highest dmg out put late game period. its something like 12,000 dmg in 10 seconds.

 

A proper way to achieve this would be yamato argus, nitro, pyre, masamune, time splitter, " with ihan stacks" you buy it first or second then sell later

I think with this build u would have less then 3k health without any spell resist. So would be nice to get Sliptide instead of Pyre for example otherwise u would be very vulnerable to spell casters.

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As someone who regularly plays Leo, I can say that he's reasonably balanced. The reason for this is that, while he can take out a group of people when fed and played well, that's contingent on how much you fed him and how much you got fed in return. If I'm playing Leo and my team feeds the other team, it doesn't matter how awesome I am, I'll barely hold my ground if even that. Leo relies a lot on his team and if they act like dickbiscuits, then all the electricity in the world won't save him. Furthermore, there's the aspect of skill. I've gone toe-to-toe with other voltron players. Often, I come out on top, not just by a little bit but by a lot. If Voltron were inherently OP, then it would be a lot less skill based and I'd expect it to come out pretty even most of the time, Leo vs Leo. It doesn't, however, and this, I attribute to the fact that Leo is one of those "gestalt" heroes where his mileage in game is greater than merely the sum of his power and the skill of the player. You also have to consider how he's built. Is he going for more physical damage and crits or is he looking to proc spell damage through Pyre, his Ult, and other items? Oftentimes, when up against an AA-heavy team, I'll put Barbed on Leo. That's almost the epitome of trolling and I remember once I faced a pretty strong and skilled Darpa player who was giving me trouble all game... until I grabbed the Barbed Plating. He had Shinobi style and when I noticed a "Darpa-shaped" shimmer moving across the battlefield, I hit my mirror just a split second before he opened up. He was dead before he fully decloaked... then he proceeded to shap bricks when he realized what happened. But I don't always need the Barbed such as when they're going for a more spell-proc based built, in which case I'd more likely go for an Electric and/or Sliptide. I also like to build him for "burst-speed" so I'll put HoM, Haste, and Yamato. I wait for my team to distract them then I flank them from some vantage point (cliff ramp, side path, bushes, etc). I aim for the target of easiest opportunity first and my Q + R will proc enough AoE damage so that when the primary target is down, it I can quickly take down one or two more before falling back before my speed buffs even wear off. Then, it's merely a matter of chasing a crippled team while my team mops up. Often, I'll even double back after the initial strike when the other team is in "panic mode". Psychological warfare is important with a hero like Leo and they'll often break down on seeing 2-3 key team mates instantly downed before they can react and me running up a blind cliff. Is he falling back or is he still a threat? Then, they have 3 choices: Focus on escaping the main force and forget about me (I exploit their distraction), focus on evading me and my team mops them up, of they try to split their focus and both me and my team are potent threats. Or, best case scenario, they break down and cry, RQ, or throw their keyboard out the window. A big part of countering Leo is shutting him down early and staying out of "prone" positions. A good Leo player is a master of terrain. He's a hunting tiger out for fresh meat. He strikes when you think he won't and he strikes from the direction you don't think he'll come from. He takes you when you think you're safe. Many times I'd flank deep to find a player who had fallen back from the main fray to port back to base and I cruise down, chowder his face, and I'm out before he even knows what happened. This was more satisfying when I took out two simultaneously with this method and I was long gone before he realized he was dead (he was porting back to town at the base of a ramp with another teammate "guarding" him without vision of the top of the ramp and probably looking at the shop screen to boot).

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