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Can Dustin get some love...


RaKuRa
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I know that people complain that he can be OP, but honestly how often have you seen people play him in Pubs or IH... In about 100 pub games I haven't seen him played once... Don't know about recently but back when I IH'ed mostly I would play the guy...

 

Dustin has one of the toughest skill shots to land (Q) and takes practice to learn his combo and some luck to land it... his dmg output is high... but is buy no means the highest (AOE or burst in general)...yet he has probably the worst mana problem of all INT heros.

 

Bottom lime I think his mana costs (especially Q) needs to be reduced by 10-15%. Also INT scaling of (Q) back to 70% from current 60% would be good.

 

 

P.S. Additionally his all his non-ult skills are prone to bugs

- the drone-related Q/E - when the drones try to cast in a fog-of-war area drones travels but doesn't cast... yet it charges you the mana/CD

- W if there is no enemy unit around no misles will fly off but you still get the mana/CD charge

- both those bugs significantly deteriorate the mana-related issues of this hero

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No, no! to all of this.

 

Dustin has the highest aeo burst ingame, if you land his spells. You can reach 2k (1k true dmg) burst with qwrqw at lvl 16. This is a 12 range (q has 10 but if you cast the edge it still goes 2 range) aeo burst.

His manacost is high even for a int. But you do not want this insane dmg to be spammable. I do however agree with the e then q issue were it wont fire but cost cd and mana.

This is a skillhero which is rare nowadays, dont even attempt to change this hero before you "fixed" garamond or atleast have a whack at ss.

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No, no! to all of this.

 

Dustin has the highest aeo burst ingame, if you land his spells. You can reach 2k (1k true dmg) burst with qwrqw at lvl 16. This is a 12 range (q has 10 but if you cast the edge it still goes 2 range) aeo burst.

His manacost is high even for a int. But you do not want this insane dmg to be spammable. I do however agree with the e then q issue were it wont fire but cost cd and mana.

This is a skillhero which is rare nowadays, dont even attempt to change this hero before you "fixed" garamond or atleast have a whack at ss.

 

Remember that the 1K Damage true Damage doesn't get amplifyed by Yamato and Argus. You will usually deal less damage because of this unless enemy has really high spell resist (and you don't have gravity). Many other heroes are capable of more damage.

 

-Rancor

-Garamond

-Cyprus (Definately)

-Jackson (400%int scaling at full damage or so)

- (Darpa's Spider mine can reach to 2K Spell Damage if you go nearly pure int)

- Raynor (Death Mark + Silence//Kill Shot + Gravity as gravity actually amplfiies death mark).

 

Many of these characters also don't raelly require skill shots as hard as dustin or even have mana issues mid game.

 

I play garamond and he just owns. Others agree :)

 

Agi Heroes are played most in pub because they require least amount of skill. Of course you won't see many Garamond players.

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I hate dustin simply because there's no skill needed to annoy others (not talking about killing) and i think he shouldn't be buffed by any means.

Just because he's underplayed he's not underpowered.

I therefore agree with Zeeeend in every aspect :)

 

Tbh Maar is probably the most annoying hero lategame because he scales VERY well and is able to deal massive damage from far away. But Dustins missiles are somewhat .... boiiy.

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Go tank build on him with khaydarin for mana sustain and unless your team is super terrible you will do pretty well. I think he is pretty weak with a typical caster build but very strong with a tank build and Khaydarin. The thing about his long range is that it forces the enemy to close the distance to hurt him and when the other team is forced to close the distance, they make sloppy mistakes.

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I said "highest aeo burst ingame". You say rancor raynor cyrpus and darpa... those are single unit burst.

Garamond is a different story he might* do more aeo then dustin. But then again his scv can be killed, its a ulti, he needs to be close since scv need to travel to target.

Dustin can destroy from a safe 10 range.

 

Remember that the 1K Damage true Damage doesn't get amplifyed by Yamato and Argus. You will usually deal less damage because of this unless enemy has really high spell resist (and you don't have gravity). Many other heroes are capable of more damage.

Its 1K damage 1000, true damage. So no matter what retarded amount of spell resist they have its 1k dmg. You cant ignore that.

If you still want to do 1k spell dmg + argus + yamato amp. You press the w button and hit 4 targets with it.

 

*Dont feel like doing the math and testing how many csv he can stack on something.

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He's underplayed because he's boring to play mechanically, but requires good positioning and teamwork. If your jackson lands a good ult, for example, he can auto-hit his Q twice as well as spam his missiles to hit the entire enemy team, while amplifying everyone else's spell damage on them too.

 

The biggest issue with him is the lack of amplified damage from argus/yamato (50%!) and the fact that he takes some skill to play as he has no escape or crowd control whatsoever. Just massive damage, a bit of spell amp, and a radar. Inexperienced users fail to work as a team late-game (Dustin can carry early game though) and experienced players prefer heroes with more utility like Raynor.

 

That said, he has a good autoattack, so with Star's Fury he can burst really hard.

 

 

 

I would go pure glass cannon on him and have my team protect me since his biggest strength is doing massive damage. He scales at about a 240% ratio with INT, and half of that is amplified by yamato/argus, so he can still compete in terms of damage with other casters.

Gravity Edge

Argus

Yamato

Symphonic Seed (for mana + crazy spammage after getting a kill)

Star's Fury

Sunflare

 

That gives about 70+100+50+50+30+60 = 360 bonus INT, and he has around 140 base INT, so that's around 500 INT.

 

His total burst (excluding damage from E since that IS the hardest skillshot to land at its full potential. His Q is not that hard to land, what are you guys talking about...) is:

 

480 (+120% INT) True + (460 (+120% INT) + 100% INT) *1.5 = 1080 true and 2340 initial Spell, which with gravity's edge becomes 1900 true damage and 1521 spell damage, all in an AoE.

 

So yeah, he's pretty scary. Don't forget that he has an exceptional laning phase and a huge teamfight presence with a 15 radius AoE nuke. He is the closest you get to an INT carry but without the downsides that traditional carries have.

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I said "highest aeo burst ingame". You say rancor raynor cyrpus and darpa... those are single unit burst.

Garamond is a different story he might* do more aeo then dustin. But then again his scv can be killed, its a ulti, he needs to be close since scv need to travel to target.

Dustin can destroy from a safe 10 range.

 

 

Its 1K damage 1000, true damage. So no matter what retarded amount of spell resist they have its 1k dmg. You cant ignore that.

If you still want to do 1k spell dmg + argus + yamato amp. You press the w button and hit 4 targets with it.

 

*Dont feel like doing the math and testing how many csv he can stack on something.

 

Although he can do a lot of AoE damage, this can be easily countered with the high variety of spell resist items, so he needs to spam his spells for as long as possible.

Also, rancor, vergil, jakk, queen (among others) can deal a lot of AoE damage without running out of mana, so i think it would be fair enough to lower a bit dustin's mana costs :P

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The only problem is that carries leech so well at the moment that Dustin's poke (by far his biggest advantage) is rather meaningless against carries that build heavy lifesteal.

 

Once he positions his drone, everyone is supposed to want to get the heck away from it since losing half of your hp is a pretty big deal.

 

That is why you build him tanky with axe and barbed. The metagame is right now you need those items on any hero against superduper lifesteal builds unless you can burst them down instantly by yourself or with a reliable ally. Otherwise you get him to 10% health and he leeches everything back while your skills are on cooldown.

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Okay, I take that back about him being mechanically boring. He's rather intensive, but it definitely feels satisfying to see your opponent's health go away as you skillfully mash the keyboard and mouse. It takes a degree of coordination to use him which many people don't have.

 

That is why you build him tanky with axe and barbed. The metagame is right now you need those items on any hero against superduper lifesteal builds unless you can burst them down instantly by yourself or with a reliable ally. Otherwise you get him to 10% health and he leeches everything back while your skills are on cooldown.

 

Or you can work with your team to instagib any carry while your tank stuns them.

 

You don't have to sacrifice potential on Dustin for him to be effective. He provides almost no utility (a temporary ward that can't be targeted into the fog, and a short-duration and hard-to-land spell amp), so I don't see why you would build him for anything other than damage considering his range is very safe.

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@ Rakura

I think that you are one of the only adequate Dustin players around. There are a few others but I think most NA players would agree yours is better. That said, I would agree that Dustin does not see a lot of play IH. They should test some buffs for him next patch and have you beta with us. That way people can gauge his strength properly.

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Remember that the 1K Damage true Damage doesn't get amplifyed by Yamato and Argus. You will usually deal less damage because of this unless enemy has really high spell resist (and you don't have gravity). Many other heroes are capable of more damage.

 

-Rancor

-Garamond

-Cyprus (Definately)

-Jackson (400%int scaling at full damage or so)

- (Darpa's Spider mine can reach to 2K Spell Damage if you go nearly pure int)

- Raynor (Death Mark + Silence//Kill Shot + Gravity as gravity actually amplfiies death mark).

 

Many of these characters also don't raelly require skill shots as hard as dustin or even have mana issues mid game.

 

I play garamond and he just owns. Others agree :)

 

Agi Heroes are played most in pub because they require least amount of skill. Of course you won't see many Garamond players.

 

Well I am not gonna argue about your last comment, but lockboxing, using your ult and moving the SCV's while you fire rockets at your helpless target takes about as much skill as lockboxing a target and having Rory throw molotov on him. If you don't bother with lockbox, then Gara takes a lot more skill but with lockbox I would put Gara in the skillless hero department.

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Okay, I take that back about him being mechanically boring. He's rather intensive, but it definitely feels satisfying to see your opponent's health go away as you skillfully mash the keyboard and mouse. It takes a degree of coordination to use him which many people don't have.

 

 

 

Or you can work with your team to instagib any carry while your tank stuns them.

 

You don't have to sacrifice potential on Dustin for him to be effective. He provides almost no utility (a temporary ward that can't be targeted into the fog, and a short-duration and hard-to-land spell amp), so I don't see why you would build him for anything other than damage considering his range is very safe.

 

Or you just have one of your support heroes lockbox their tank and run by them, directly to Mr. Squishy.

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I agree, while I think his mana costs should remain decently high, his skills should get some utility. All he has is a little spell damage amp, which is usually used before his Q which isn't affected by it anyway... It's frustrating being Dustin and not being able to do anything except basically Q and E when someone is dying in front of me. Plus, he's so bad at escaping/moving, I think he should get a slight passive speed buff

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Why is it that people call out for strong heros to be buffed? Dustin is pretty much a beast in the right hands, kind of like Garamond; if the person is skilled, he is good; if not, he's worthless. The whole idea of Dustin is like what Maar currently is; spammable, powerful AOE damage that takes some skill-shooting to work. The other point is that if you really spam that much, you run out of energy really fast. Dustin is the only caster I ever see run out of energy at end of the game, but why is that wrong? He does more damage. I think he's pretty balanced as is.

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Why is it that people call out for strong heros to be buffed? Dustin is pretty much a beast in the right hands, kind of like Garamond; if the person is skilled, he is good; if not, he's worthless. The whole idea of Dustin is like what Maar currently is; spammable, powerful AOE damage that takes some skill-shooting to work. The other point is that if you really spam that much, you run out of energy really fast. Dustin is the only caster I ever see run out of energy at end of the game, but why is that wrong? He does more damage. I think he's pretty balanced as is.

 

I don't think he is underpowered, I just think that he is too dependent on snowballing from early-game-on in order to stay relevant mid-late game. He offers nothing but damage.

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The other day I won a 2v5 as Dustin, mainly helped by their zeratul dropping his bubble on the other guy catching his team inside it and lasering and missile spamming them the whole time. Also get a blink with Dustin. Saves your ass against melee characters.

*The other day a Zeratul won a 2v5 with you as Dustin.

I hear Zeratul and i see Opness! Nevermind. Dustin in the right hands is deadly and very annoying.

Dustin in the wrong hands is completely useless (just like garamond/Maar/Tassadar).

He's fine, really.Just like many other Underplayed yet not Underpowered heroes.

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