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Shrapnel Cloak or Barbed Plating


Ironsights
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As the title suggests, I am interested in players' opinons on which item is better.

 

To put the question into perspective, I am talking about the items when used by a strength hero and in conjunction with the executioner's axe, specifically with the desire to defeat AA heroes.

 

On the one hand, if you use the barbed plating while stacking health, you as the tank can endure far more punishment than an attacking AA hero and will be able to net kills against them.

 

On the other hand, with the Shrapnel Cloak, you can prevent them from attacking outright, giving you the time to get the kill if you were building a DPS hybrid or to protect your team during a team fight.

 

I have found that if you try and get them both, you end up screwed in that you don't really have enough health to handle a geared AA based on Barbed nor enough damage output to focus them down during the Shrapnel burst...therefore one over the other has to be better.

 

Personally, I have found that stacking health and using barbed feels better, relying on your own AA heroes to use the Cloak to gain an edge, unless you are facing an entire team of AA's and in that case most/all of you will want/need the cloak. However, I was hoping to hear some thoughts and explanations as to which one is better, when and why.

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whale: any chance on explaining why? Your opinion is pretty clear on this one, but is it due to the utility in team fights or because you believe the cloak is out right better for defeating an AA hero?

 

skydie: I agree, unless there are 4 or 5 AA's on the other team, one cloak is usually sufficient in my experience. And thus far my experience is solely in Pubs. Why do you say barbed is best for Pub? is it that you are assuming that a pubber is good enough to capitalize on the SC advantage (not true IMO) or that team work just isn't goign to happen in pubs making SC less useful (very true lol)?

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As the title suggests, I am interested in players' opinons on which item is better.

 

To put the question into perspective, I am talking about the items when used by a strength hero and in conjunction with the executioner's axe, specifically with the desire to defeat AA heroes.

 

On the one hand, if you use the barbed plating while stacking health, you as the tank can endure far more punishment than an attacking AA hero and will be able to net kills against them.

 

On the other hand, with the Shrapnel Cloak, you can prevent them from attacking outright, giving you the time to get the kill if you were building a DPS hybrid or to protect your team during a team fight.

 

I have found that if you try and get them both, you end up screwed in that you don't really have enough health to handle a geared AA based on Barbed nor enough damage output to focus them down during the Shrapnel burst...therefore one over the other has to be better.

 

Personally, I have found that stacking health and using barbed feels better, relying on your own AA heroes to use the Cloak to gain an edge, unless you are facing an entire team of AA's and in that case most/all of you will want/need the cloak. However, I was hoping to hear some thoughts and explanations as to which one is better, when and why.

I find it more usefull to go both Barbed AND SC (Because they are cheap items) and togheter with Axe/pyre (depending on what enemy AA carry has) so you can get

a shadowmourne, and proceed to rape enemy AA carry :)

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That's my opinion :) Some pubs are great however YOUR survival is what matters in pub (very few random unknown pubs give a shap about you). With pubstars S.C will work :)

 

Ofc some pubs are great, I had one yesterday witg Drake, over 1:20, and S.C saved my ass against Francuz (Darpa). I ended with 13-13-44. After camping 30 minites in the base we began to win teamfights and push enough to win.

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I find it more usefull to go both Barbed AND SC (Because they are cheap items) and togheter with Axe/pyre (depending on what enemy AA carry has) so you can get

a shadowmourne, and proceed to rape enemy AA carry :)

 

That sounds like a good build for a DPS to use against a carry, but a tank? I feel it would leave me too squishy, wouldn't it? Unless I was building a troll...like say a DPS style Tychus...?

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meh it depends on the char build....

 

I mainly play intel characters so shrap is the way to go....ometimes i get barbed for other reasons, but for example today I just rolled a masamune hand of mensk pyre shadow....as queen....an ally spots from outside of shadows ult...Q(banelings) cast on shadow, shadow strikes and gets mantle stun, while i cast the banes....as banes appear and start rolling to shadow i pres 3(my key for shrapnel cloak)...boom....damage, cant leech, can`t finish me, and if I have nitrogen its also a slow for ensured banelings at melee range....BOOM....dead shadow

 

different situation....I`m alone and shadow ulti ganks me....I press 3 for slow and non attackability.....run away

 

shrap is cool if your team designated you to wear it(and know the right time to use it) or if you are a nuker(you use shrap and kill them in 2 seconds)...if shrapo wears off you have to be away until it recharges

 

Now lets hear it for axe + barbed plating combo...axe = enemy wont outleech barbed plating...and cause barbed plating gives armor and the spell damage is calculates BEFORE mitigation ii ensures a non leeching character will auto kill itself against you. The bad thing is you can use axe only vs 1 target so in team fights you will still need someone else to cast shrap on the enemy team to make them useless. However, vs targets u KNOW cannot recieve help for a while you can just push a lane....if they attack you and you have a tanky build you can even survive the full shadow/zera ulti duration till you can see them again to attack with axe and boom! they are lost...axe also will give strenght so if you are a str hero its a bonus...between electric mantle, super heated mantle, and barbed plating and axe(+ some hp item like organic or Foe) a strength hero tank can tank while letting the items dish the damage...its not eactly a way to beat more than one aa carry, but they will try to avoid you(you will notice) and with good reason...in team battles they may try to bypass you instead of straight attacking to get the most vulnerable targets, allowing you to get free hits and stuff.

 

Conclusion: considering you proposed a strength hero necesarily I would go with axe + barbed and ask a teammate to have shrap near you...hopefully said team is a spell nuker(like I usually am) so you get the benefit of both worlds.....its a team game and no char can solo a good team...with a pro micro and I as queen once we took zera, boros and shadow....yes....the deadly 3....piece of cake....I have mor trouble vs nova though once shrap hits nova has the easiest time runing away and comming back when shrap wears off so I guess my advice is good considering the usual melee carries who have to commit in order to engage

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That sounds like a good build for a DPS to use against a carry, but a tank? I feel it would leave me too squishy, wouldn't it? Unless I was building a troll...like say a DPS style Tychus...?

Yeah, u can still get a Darwin and FoE to reach near 4k hp, but not sure if you can build ALL those items in an IH game, but it works on pubs :3
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I feel that Barbed is awesome on Tanks and Scrappers (Tanky DPS) while Shrapnel is better on Support or Squishy DPS. The tank is going to be absorbing a lot of debuffs which may include silence or stun. If he's stunned or silenced, he can't fire off the Shrapnel. The ones who come in after initiation, however, can usually get the drop on the opposition and fire off the Shrapnel when it's needed.

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I think it actually depends on how many aa carries your going up against. if it is just 1 grabbing a E Mantle and Barbed is prolly the better choice but when it gets to more than 2 S.C works better i think. On the other hand why pick? just get all three :D

 

Edit: also E mantle gives 20% spell resist and Shrapnel gives 18%*. so buy getting these items you are fairly protected from aa and spell dmg. all you have to do left is grab some hp.

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Imho, SC better. It gives nearly same armor as barbed, but it also give you SR, doing you even more tanky. Also, SC stop AA => no item uniques procs. So you won't be slowed with FoE, damaged with pyre or slyptic. You won't be damaged with crits and so on. Also SC debuffs in good case all team, while barbed proc only on heroes, who attack you. For barbed you must have big effective HP and high PR.

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In my opinion, Shrapnel is better if mutiple of team mates get it. Barb is better if your the tank, and only one that will have shrapnel. It also depends who you are.

 

Personally if there are alot of AA heroes, and i can't tank well [usually if your a AA too vs a glass cannon with leech], Shrapnel is the better choice. If you have like 6000 HP you shud get barb but shud also get Shrapnel too :P

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If I get shrap at all, I have both since the armor from shrap synergizes well with barbed. Barbed is a soft counter to leech while axe is a hard counter to leech and due to the DPS and the amount of leech some heroes can put out you sometimes need all three items (plus health and spell resist) to soak the damage from AA heroes. I use shrap more often than not to save the butts of my less tanky allies than to save myself. In other words, you don't use shrap until their AA carry has picked out a target on your team to kill, then you use it and then move yourself between the enemy AA hero and your ally so they acquire you next.

 

Shrapnel cloak with no backup counter items to AA heroes is not very effective in my opinion. I suppose in theory if several players get it and chain the item then it could be fairly strong, but when playing an AA hero I have enough health to soak the damage I would receive in those 3 seconds and then I just kill their squishy hero anyways since it is very, very, very rare in pub games for players to make it their priority to take damage at the expense of their allies. In fact, I don't think I have ever seen anyone in a pub game actively block enemies in pursuit of allies (i.e. you just micro your hero right in front of the chasing hero so they have to keep running around you to hit your ally) so really it is no surprise people only seem to get shrapnel cloak (rare though) to save their own butts when it is really more of a utility item for tanky heroes to force enemy AA heroes to reacquire them as targets, rather than allow their allied squishy casters and agi heroes behind them get wasted,

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