Pyre, To powerful vs Towers?

[Itsthatguy]

Note: This is on the Final Tower with 12000 Shields and 4000 Hp and 70% Damage Resistance.

 

In my experience Pyre is very strong to begin with. It seems to be the best AA item someone can buy. One issue I find with it is that it also (Assuming) works on Towers. Even tho there is a Spell Damage Cap for this, someone can easily burst down a tower with this. This makes 1 AA hero able to take down a tower within 10 seconds of a creep wave, and an INT hero (or STR) will require 3 creep waves and about 3 minutes. I think Pyre's Damage filter threw 125 spell damage shud be before mitigation. Because the final tower has 70% Damage resistance and the fact it has so much HP, pyre still deals 125 Spell Damage. Roughly this Pyre damage (125) on final tower with 70% Damage resistance is eoughly equal to 415 Weapon damage. You basicly deal DOUBLE damage then...

 

I was surprised to see how fast my final tower was dieing to 1 Enemy Hero and 8 creeps (that weren't even attacking the tower). Within 11 seconds, the Darpa with Full Items (and Pyre) was able to roughly deal 11000 Damage towards the tower. In turn when we won the game, it took my entire team (who lacked DPS) 30 seconds to deal the same damage, and with an army of spawn attacking it.

 

I'm not saying that Pyre is OP vs heroes, I'm just saying that, it seems to strong at killing a tower.

 

 

 

 

-Edit- Thanks for clearing that Pyre doesn't work on Tower. I was kinda assuming at the rate of how fast AA heroes can kill a tower (like 5 seconds)

[Spooky]

Doesn't tower has high spell resistance or even spell immunity?

[WhaleTits]

pyre doesn't affect buildings...

 

final tower has ~88% damage resist.

 

and that 125 damage cap vs non-heroic is before mitigation. ie: you only deal 125*.45 bonus damage to levi from pyre's passive.

[Midknight]

Afaik, all buildings are immune to spell damage. You can easily test this by taking rancor in test mode and dropping a nuke on a T1 tower. What other items did Darpa have? 1000 DPS would equate to 500 weapon damage every half a second (very doable with the right items). I'm pretty sure that it wasn't the pyre that allowed him to do this and if he had replaced it with some other item, say a Timesplitter, he'd have similar results. Remember that the way attack speed bonuses stack, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. +25% attack speed boosts your DPS by 25% but 2x +25% attack speed boosts your DPS by 56.27%. 4x +25% attack speed boosts it by 144%. That's not even considering Agi speed bonus. 556 Agi will cap your attack speed with no other speed bonuses. 2 Timesplitters, a Khali, Pyre, Masa, and BHM will give you about 1200 DPS for lvl 18 Darpa, not counting any procced damage from crits, pyre, or BHM.

[WhaleTits]

no. i believe certain onhit effects like cain's ult will damage buildings.

[Divinesashi]

That shows how ridiculous AA heroes can output damage if no control (or as i call it "CC - Crowd Control") is played on them.

[NoWaterJustIce]

MK, Queen, Unix, Garamond can all take towers in 1 wave if unhindered by like level 6-8

[WhaleTits]

ya. cains ult and crackling's W do spell damage to buildings. leo's ult does not.

[RaKuRa]

Afaik, all buildings are immune to spell damage.

 

As noted before me, there are some exceptions...most notably Gara's turrets that do pure spell dmg but will melt towers at (skill 3/4)

[Itsthatguy]

Ah... So its just the fact that AA heroes are 10X better at killing towers unless u have a special ability that only a few heroes have to damage.

 

P.S.: Toxi's venom passive works

Boro's Burning Blade works

Mandrake's Passive works vs tower (Yes his burn that burns enemies that attack him)

I can't remember any other.

 

Nice to know that Pyre doesnt work vs towers. It still seems unfair that 1 AA hero is better a pushing a tower with creeps than 5 Caster heroes (without summons//Spell damaging abilities).

 

P.S. You may lock this topic now :)

[WhaleTits]

well obviously a carry is gonna carry late game >.<

 

though garamond is still probably faster at pushing down towers by himself, at all stages in the game, with the possible exception of lvl 6~ mk and queen.

[FruitNinja]

Dustin's laser also damages towers.

 

Carries are so good at killing towers just because they scale much better into their role (sustained DPS) than casters. Casters were never designed to take down high-hp targets late-game unless you're talking about caster-DPS heroes like Tassadar, and casters with summons like Garamond and Unix. Tassadar's Q doesn't proc on buildings though.

Whether or not casters should fall off is a question about the entire state of the game itself and should be addressed in another thread, although I personally don't like how almost every caster falls off while heroes like Nova have both a strong early game and only get stronger.

[WhaleTits]

they don't fall off late game... they just aren't good at killing bosses or buildings. very good at killing carries though.

[FruitNinja]

they don't fall off late game... they just aren't good at killing bosses or buildings. very good at killing carries though.

 

Depends, you have to build pretty squishy to kill a carry in one burst later on.

 

E.g. Dustin: 280 (+60% INT) x2 + 170(?) (+60% INT) x2. With 500 INT, that does around 2100 Spell Damage, which kills a carry with zero health items just fine but against a carry with galactic defender (+1000 shields, 30% total spell resist) and darwin's might it's not going to kill him and the carry can just leech back to full. Dustin's ult has a pretty short cooldown too.

 

Edit: This is all in a vaccum without things like yamato and argus. It's really more like 3000 Spell damage which still has the capacity to kill a carry late-game.

 

I'm not saying he's worthless late-game (he has a team after all, and that's still a lot of damage), but casters are (edit: still) much stronger mid-game when carries don't usually have a lot of survivability from my experience (cyprus is good at killing people 100-0 by himself, and Dustin is too once he racks up killsteals with his missiles :P). Once they buy a few tanky-DPS items they become much harder to kill and carries can take out pretty much anyone in a duel.

 

Anyways I don't want to derail the thread further. Carry on with... whatever people were talking about before I came. :P

[akanna]

Afaik, all buildings are immune to spell damage. You can easily test this by taking rancor in test mode and dropping a nuke on a T1 tower. What other items did Darpa have? 1000 DPS would equate to 500 weapon damage every half a second (very doable with the right items). I'm pretty sure that it wasn't the pyre that allowed him to do this and if he had replaced it with some other item, say a Timesplitter, he'd have similar results. Remember that the way attack speed bonuses stack, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. +25% attack speed boosts your DPS by 25% but 2x +25% attack speed boosts your DPS by 56.27%. 4x +25% attack speed boosts it by 144%. That's not even considering Agi speed bonus. 556 Agi will cap your attack speed with no other speed bonuses. 2 Timesplitters, a Khali, Pyre, Masa, and BHM will give you about 1200 DPS for lvl 18 Darpa, not counting any procced damage from crits, pyre, or BHM.

 

Does timescale affect attack speed at all anymore? I cant remember. I seem to recall it affects movement, regen, and DOT effects, but not sure if there was an attack speed buff too...

[Eliwan]

Timescale increases Weapon Speed

[VasyaKot]

Timescale increases weapon animation and doesnt reduce weapon speed.

[Eliwan]

That would be old timescale

 

New Time Scale increases hero clock relative to game time without any debuffs like old timescale had, so it increases AS, MS, Animation Speed, and decreases cooldown length