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Hand of Mengsk, and why to not buy it,


Hogwarts
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HOM is a terrible item compared to darwins might, i see so many kids on this forum saying they include it into your item build, but the item is just trash,

 

Darwins offers more life steal and 10 less damage , but gives 50 str, this gives so much life,

 

HOM offers the CD and wep speed on active, but agi heros do not need the wep speed and the Darwins is hands down better on STR AA heros cause str gives wep dmg to str heros

 

 

Darwins offers much more sustain and tank then HOM with the same amount of damage pretty much,

 

HOM was an extremly good item in 5.0 when it cost 1.5k mins or what ever, but in the current meta the item is just bad,

 

 

 

If you dont want to afford the full darwins just buy the gluttons bite then finish darwins later,

 

 

There are so many early game item choices mixed with gluttons bite that are better then a HOM

 

Darwins and FOE are standard on any In House agi dps carry, because that gives you about 3k+ health with 70+physical damage resist " cause 1 armor = 3% resist and agi gives you armor", with other items give you max attack speed and 400+ attack damage with 25% leech and 50% leech every 20 seconds

 

Hom is just a bad choice

 

 

 

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Darwins costs like 5k HOM is like 3200 (cant remember exact prices bc I always have components when I buy)

Darwins is exclusively a late game item

HOM is extremely useful in the early to mid game for extra attack speed and movement speed (and CD reduction)

You dont get anywhere near the weapon speed cap till late game, and the extra movement and attack speed makes it easy to chase ppl down and lay into them

 

Often ppl will swap HOM out for Darwins in the late game once they are at the speed cap

 

HOM is extremely powerful on chars like shadow and cain who depend on that movement and weapon speed to rack up kills for late game builds

 

Its also a very effective item on both Hybrid DPS Casters and tanks bc they often dont have a lot of weaponspeed, and the extra movement speed helps them get out of bad spots or chase ppl down and CD is good for their abilities. Darwins is only good on High DPS heros that already have a ton of attack speed, so it really has very limited use. Its also one of the later items to be purchased in any build, usually you ride out gluttons as long as possible to focus on other more important items.

 

HOM is an awesome item, you just dont know when to use it ;)

Also it builds from leeching saber which is full of win

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HOM is a terrible item compared to darwins might, i see so many kids on this forum saying they include it into your item build, but the item is just trash,

 

Are you implying that using HoM turns back time?

I'll build it on every hero now. ^^

 

But no seriously, don't open your post like this. It's childish, and makes me not want to bother reading the rest of it. I agree that HoM is bad, but you don't need to be such a douche about it.

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Wow one of the most incompetent posts I have seen in a while. HoM is a great item when you want to have your cake and eat it too with respect to attack speed and lifesteal/cooldown in your build.

 

For instance, on Kerrigan I have pyre, sunflare, hom, yamato, darwins and barbed plating. This allows me to have a base 65% leech with 115% leech on top of that. Yamato and HoM activated together give a burst of 85% attack speed but more importantly on an AA hero like Kerri it gives 40% movement speed which is key in maintaining chase (the alternative of course is FoE/Nitro). On a hero like Kerrigan burst AA plus lifesteal (barbed is there to take advantage of your great sustain thanks to leech) is what you really want because typically the way you should engage a team is to ult first, then activate bone armor, HoM, and Yamato and chase them down since they won't be standing their ground while tons of pods rain from the sky. If you don't have that bonus movement speed you won't be able to take advantage of this tactic obviously.

 

Also, with regards to cooldown oriented builds, HoM is also great on a hero like Cow as I have pyre, BHM, coat of arms, electric mantle, HoM, and Darwins (usually though I will sometimes get a utility item in the end if it makes sense). The cooldown pretty much cuts your stomp CD time in half allowing you to kite like crazy and proc BHM (that is one build on cow I use but not the only one). Also with those items and HoM activated you hit the attack speed cap on Cow as well for another angle in how you kill enemies, though most of the time you want to be procing BHM and kiting and spamming your skills, but if you are forced to stand ground or need to AA down a tank, having HoM activated adds another big dimension to him.

 

You can also do a similiar build on Cyprus where you abuse cooldown by having all cooldown items other than argus and grav edge. This is kinda OP as it makes it so Cyprus can blink around like mad if you add a Yamato, HoM, Electric Mantle, and Coat of Arms. This gives you solid burst AA to finish off tanky heroes that survive your initial salvo on top of ridiculous movement capabilities across the map.

 

But yah I would not get HoM if you have other items that get you to the attack speed cap because then the active is mostly useless and having a sunflare would make more sense since it gives just as much leech, almost as much damage, but also has an active that does a ton of burst damage and the 15% cooldown is nice, but worrying about cooldown only matters if you get a lot of it in your build on heroes that can take advantage of highly spammable abilities, in particular ones that deal with movement.

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For instance, on Kerrigan I have pyre, sunflare, hom, yamato, darwins and barbed plating. This allows me to have a base 65% leech with 115% leech on top of that. Yamato and HoM activated together give a burst of 85% attack speed but more importantly on an AA hero like Kerri it gives 40% movement speed which is key in maintaining chase (the alternative of course is FoE/Nitro). On a hero like Kerrigan burst AA plus lifesteal (barbed is there to take advantage of your great sustain thanks to leech) is what you really want because typically the way you should engage a team is to ult first, then activate bone armor, HoM, and Yamato and chase them down since they won't be standing their ground while tons of pods rain from the sky. If you don't have that bonus movement speed you won't be able to take advantage of this tactic obviously.

 

LOL. And then ANYBODY gets Executioner's Axe and you lose the game for having a shap build.

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Wow one of the most incompetent posts I have seen in a while. HoM is a great item when you want to have your cake and eat it too with respect to attack speed and lifesteal/cooldown in your build.

 

For instance, on Kerrigan I have pyre, sunflare, hom, yamato, darwins and barbed plating. This allows me to have a base 65% leech with 115% leech on top of that. Yamato and HoM activated together give a burst of 85% attack speed but more importantly on an AA hero like Kerri it gives 40% movement speed which is key in maintaining chase (the alternative of course is FoE/Nitro). On a hero like Kerrigan burst AA plus lifesteal (barbed is there to take advantage of your great sustain thanks to leech) is what you really want because typically the way you should engage a team is to ult first, then activate bone armor, HoM, and Yamato and chase them down since they won't be standing their ground while tons of pods rain from the sky. If you don't have that bonus movement speed you won't be able to take advantage of this tactic obviously.

 

Also, with regards to cooldown oriented builds, HoM is also great on a hero like Cow as I have pyre, BHM, coat of arms, electric mantle, HoM, and Darwins (usually though I will sometimes get a utility item in the end if it makes sense). The cooldown pretty much cuts your stomp CD time in half allowing you to kite like crazy and proc BHM (that is one build on cow I use but not the only one). Also with those items and HoM activated you hit the attack speed cap on Cow as well for another angle in how you kill enemies, though most of the time you want to be procing BHM and kiting and spamming your skills, but if you are forced to stand ground or need to AA down a tank, having HoM activated adds another big dimension to him.

 

You can also do a similiar build on Cyprus where you abuse cooldown by having all cooldown items other than argus and grav edge. This is kinda OP as it makes it so Cyprus can blink around like mad if you add a Yamato, HoM, Electric Mantle, and Coat of Arms. This gives you solid burst AA to finish off tanky heroes that survive your initial salvo on top of ridiculous movement capabilities across the map.

 

But yah I would not get HoM if you have other items that get you to the attack speed cap because then the active is mostly useless and having a sunflare would make more sense since it gives just as much leech, almost as much damage, but also has an active that does a ton of burst damage and the 15% cooldown is nice, but worrying about cooldown only matters if you get a lot of it in your build on heroes that can take advantage of highly spammable abilities, in particular ones that deal with movement.

You are wrong

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You can also do a similiar build on Cyprus where you abuse cooldown by having all cooldown items other than argus and grav edge. This is kinda OP as it makes it so Cyprus can blink around like mad if you add a Yamato, HoM, Electric Mantle, and Coat of Arms. This gives you solid burst AA to finish off tanky heroes that survive your initial salvo on top of ridiculous movement capabilities across the map.

 

Come on lOvOl, why you want INT heros as AA, and AA heros as tanks? I mean you buy pyre on Drake or Cyprus, and you buy Carapace, Barbed and E.Mantle on Darpa.

WTF? Casters are casters and their role is better than any other role. Carries are carries and their role is better than any other role. Cyprus' role is shut down in 1 shot AGI carries, other burst dmg casters and some kind of support heros.

Darpa's role is bam bam bam jump bam jump run. His role is not stand still tanking lots of dmg and auto attacking just with Pyre.

 

I never bm you because I don't know who you are but some builds you do seems to be random. Yes Cyprus can jump each 5 seconds and AA anyone but, it's that fun? Its better buy pure INT and crush anyone with your stones. It's more funny building burst spell dmg cow than building a strange dps build with some tanky items. You just use your spells to deal massive AoE damage during a teamfight, you also support allies with toilet and walls, better than simply AA.

 

I could build Micro as DPS because he has insane base damage, insane base STR and STR growing, so even more damage, he slows, blinks and toss, he also stuns, so he could be DPS, why not? Because his role is be a tank and toss ppl, buy aura items, take dmg, die and make your allies win a teamfight.

 

 

But that's only my opinion.

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HoM is very strong as it is a fairly cheap item and really high attack speed (with some movement speed).

 

Of course: Darwins 1000% better than HoM as a final item build, as the attack speed is not needed.

 

Honestly if you had to choose between the first item you got: HoM or Darwins ----> HoM better. Once you start getting into mid game and late game, the value of HoM drops and darwins might increases. (What good is leech if you don't have attack speed, or can't kill an enemy).

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Unfortunately the argument of this thread is simply comparing apples and oranges. These items do the same thing through different means (restore HP) which is what nearly everyone has focused on, instead of the differences.

 

Both items effectively use their active to regain HP. HoM though speed, darwin's more leech. Yes the attack speed of HoM loses it's value the further into the game because there are other items that grant attack speed, anyone can see that. However there are differences that you can choose to see or not between how these two items function. Most assume HoM and darwin's are chosen for it's leech.

 

For a build I posted in another thread and hence this rage post of the OPer' I used HoM. The build was focused on 2 factors for Ling and ling only, CD's reducing his W key for massive self healing and run speed, with HoM effectively you do both of these things on the cheap and provide additional attack speed if needed, the build does not max attack speed (1.25 of the 1.5 max reduction for ling).

 

Darwin can not do either of these things for the purpose of that build. AS a side not the duration of active's is also vastly different as well HoM 10 secs is more forgiving with enemy CC's ect, while Darwin's is a much shorter duration (3 secs? I think) which again suits ling's playstyle (imo) more because he jumps in and out of combat based on his CDs' (again just how i play him).

 

enjoy

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Pick up Darwins on an agi carry, you just:

 

-Spent 5k minerals

-Got strength which you don't need yet

-Got 40 weapon damage

-Got 75% lifesteal. Oh joy, you won't need so much yet.

 

Pick up Hand on an agi carry, you just:

-Spent 3200 (I think) minerals

-Got +50 Weapon damage

-Got 20% leech

-Got 15% cooldown reduction

-Got an active which lets you attack 60% faster and move 15% quicker.

 

Both are good at different times. I like Hand in my early game set (usually first) and then I'll scale up and maybe (depends on if I really, really, really, really, reeeeeallly need it) pick up Darwins later.

 

FoE though is a must as my 2nd to last item. P. Hammer of course comes with an early game set.

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early game, as we said, tends to be pulse hammer + pyre + glutton's bite

 

haste/sprint/whatever its called now fulfills the early game mobility and attackspeed for those first few fights.

 

thus there is no need for the early game power HoM provides - the 3000 mineral detour is too costly for the marginal benefit it grants.

 

 

atleast that is the current ih point of view.

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The reason why so many people use HOM is also a standard build that has permeated through time.

Nearly every single version since 3.0, HOM was an item used by AA heroes. I believe the reason why you see so many

KIDS is because HOM is just an item that transitions very easily in the early-midgame phase. There are so many players that

put HOM and Pyre on a shadow or Zeratul, and that type of build is still popular to this day.

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LOL. And then ANYBODY gets Executioner's Axe and you lose the game for having a shap build.

 

And that is the same with just getting Darwin's? Nevertheless, executioner's will cut your lifesteal by 80% but you still have solid lifesteal at 65% base, 115% active and you get 20% of that which is still good for sustain.(13% and 23% respectively). That is good enough to counter much of the feedback you get from barbed plating as well which is the whole point of stacking lifesteal the way the game works right now (i.e. you need it to counter certain defensive items so you don't kill yourself attacking a properly built tank). And yah if the other team does not bother to buy an axe and has no way of permastunning you, you will be mostly invincible with enough leech and DPS on any hero, but that is not why you generally stack tons of leech in the first place. Plus if you force the entire other team to buy axes it is akin to having Rory in the game and forcing the entire other team to buy parallax generators.

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early game, as we said, tends to be pulse hammer + pyre + glutton's bite

 

haste/sprint/whatever its called now fulfills the early game mobility and attackspeed for those first few fights.

 

thus there is no need for the early game power HoM provides - the 3000 mineral detour is too costly for the marginal benefit it grants.

 

 

atleast that is the current ih point of view.

 

I can understand this when one team essentially rage quits as a team through the surrender option and the game is over in less than half an hour. Just another reason few people want to bother with "IH Play".

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Foe and DwM Don't give phys red. since they don't give agility or amor in any case.

 

If in your standard build you are not capping A.S. it How vs DwM is debatable.

 

Darwin's just offer more leech. ( 5% passive). But that's not true since ( about agi chars) Hom gives you more damage and more A.S.

 

 

If enemy team gets an axe, then you have to see other stats. Movement/A.S/ Cdr or health/ more leech. You choose.

 

Stacking Leech is my opinion a bad idea. If enemy team get axes and can use it.

 

The why is, leech items don't offer defense like other items, besides leech ( which is downed) and leech items are not the best in terms of damage.

 

So if you can get 400 dmg with 5% Lsteal (20 leech ) or 280 with 65 probably 115 (65 leech). Your leech is X3 but your damage is lower and the possibly of some kind of defense is less. Since 3 items haven't ( oh well... Health on DwM).

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I can understand this when one team essentially rage quits as a team through the surrender option and the game is over in less than half an hour. Just another reason few people want to bother with "IH Play".

 

This post is uncalled for and unnecessary. While it is true that sometimes that games do end at the 25 min mark 85 % of games are over an hour long. Please Dont throw out lies.

 

Also I remember being in a public lobby with you yesterday where when the game started 2-3 people dropped and then everyone else left. This same thing happened the game after. And even though you weren't in the third lobby i can tell you that the same thing happened again. Now while these things don't happen every pub game(though they do happen quite often) i would rather play a 25 min ih stomp where i lost than a 7 min pub game where everyone quits. That being said i have had some very fun pub games where everyone stayed and the teams were fairly even.

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