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Cloak Chat


NoWaterJustIce
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It is well know that Cloaking in Aos is much much weaker than its moba counterparts. The first reason is the notorious shimmer that comes with the Sc2 engine. The second is that for some unkown reason if a hero in Aos tries to cloak while they are taking dmg they just dont cloak. The second part becomes a problem because many heros (zera, rancor, unix, bio,) just to name a few, rely on cloaking to escape.

 

Now i was doing some thinking and i think i came up with a solution to these 2 problems (though im not familiar witht the editor so im not sure these would work).

 

1)Cloaking now makes a hero transparent (like shadow or vergil) as well as the cloaking effect that is already there. This would make it so that when a hero cloaked your enemy would effectively see nothing.

 

2)Make heros that are cloaked untargetable. because as they are cloaked nobody should be able to aa them or target with them with a spell anyways. Though you wouldnt be able to target them they would still be affected by aoe dmg abilites as it should be.

 

This is kinda what i was going for but eliwan just said it better:

 

While Cloaked, a hero has a buff "Cloak Untargetable". This makes the unit not a valid target. It will be re-applied every so often.

Anything that reveals cloaked units-- Nova's Scoping, Rancor's Scans, Boundary Scanners, etc.; removes the buff as well as what it already does.

And Truesight Elixir would work like SHM-- searching for this buff on enemies and removing it; in addition to granting detection (like normal).

 

 

Now with these changes obviously Chrono and scans would need to be tweaked to removed these buffs as well, but i think this might be an answer to what has been a very frustrating bug for a very long time.

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These changes are not needed. Cloaking is fine as it is, besides its fun to chase cloaked people/kill them without spells ;D)

But the guy on the receiving end is raging hard because that's a stupid bug...

Agreed with Point 1; and for Point 2 I'll do some expansion on it (so that Aellectris has to expand on his "2. No."... Because that's a very silly response if you actually thought it through how to implement that).

 

While Cloaked, a hero has a buff "Cloak Untargetable". This makes the unit not a valid target. It will be re-applied every so often.

Anything that reveals cloaked units-- Nova's Scoping, Rancor's Scans, Boundary Scanners, etc.; removes the buff as well as what it already does.

And Truesight Elixir would work like SHM-- searching for this buff on enemies and removing it; in addition to granting detection (like normal).

 

That way, it would work, right?

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It is part of Sc2 Ladder and the shimmer is balanced for that. In every other Moba game cloaking makes you completely invisible to the enemy team unless you are revealed by some sort of detection.

 

Which is simply wrong... changing cloak would have a bad effect on AoS balance. You would see no end of rancor or zeratul- even more than you do now. Nobody cares what cloak is like compared to other dota style games- the fact is that most heroes with cloak don't need buffs.

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I remember making a "Double Cloak" thread, which suggested a higher order of magnitude for SOME cloaks, such as Roach Ultimate, Smoke Screen, and Shadow Ultimate, that would not be revealed by TS, but rather only a "reveal" (Scans, Marked for Death, Spider, etc). Perhaps that could be looked at, again.

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Cloaking should not have a shimmer. Thats the whole point of cloaking.. Its so the enemy doesn't know you are there. It's an escape mechanic that basically counters itself by giving your position away. And honestly who cares how much a hero is played. Oh no lets not make a good change just so we don't see this hero so often. Please find a better excuse.

 

@Aell

 

I'm going to have to guess by "other games" you mean LoL because Dota 2 has a fair amount of cloaked heroes and 3 items that can cloak you.

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I disagree with 1, the shimmer is part of the game, cloak shouldn't make you truly invisible...

 

A: Shimmer should be in the game.

 

P1: Shimmer is in the game.

Therefore A.

 

I agree that some heroes with cloaks don't need buffs. Nova is extremely strong and imo doesn't even need an escape. Zeratul would be broken during the laning phase due to permacloak near heroes (his laning phase being weak is his biggest weakness). Not sure about rancor. But you could nerf their other aspects to balance it out.

Unix already has full invisibility while burrowed though, and it doesn't really do him justice.

 

Also keep in mind that other games have nowhere nearly the amount of characters/abilities to cloak - in addition, there aren't really cloaking items.
I'm going to have to guess by "other games" you mean LoL because Dota 2 has a fair amount of cloaked heroes and 3 items that can cloak you.

 

Rev is right in that LoL has no items that cloak you, but in terms of heroes...

 

AoS:

-Zeratul

-Rancor

-Nova

-Unix

-Biotron

-Brine

 

I think that's it.

Shadow doesn't count in a literal sense, but he can prevent you from seeing him.

 

LoL:

-Eve

-Akali

-Rengar

-Kha'Zix

-Talon

-Twitch

-Shaco

-Teemo

-LeBlanc (for 0.5 sec)

-Vayne

-Wukong

 

As a percentage of heroes AoS does have more stealth heroes than LoL, but LoL executes stealth in a variety of ways (wukong has his decoy, Vayne and Kha'Zix have short cloaks meant for repositioning, Akali's is mainly an escape/juking tool since it reveals exactly where you are, Evelynn's is permacloak, etc.

So I would say that LoL expands on the stealth concept a bit more, which justifies the lower percentage of heroes, because rehashes of the same thing are boring. Kha'Zix and Rengar, for example, are both assassins, but their cloaks have completely different purposes.

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