FruitNinja Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 I understand Brine is supposed to be a support hero. But still, his E is the only good thing about him other than his tankyness. His Q just makes up for his pitiful attack damage and speed, and his W is a minor speed boost and heal that drains your precious mana. He has mana problems more than any hero I've played other than perhaps Dustin... His R is good as an escape but as an initiation move he doesn't really do enough damage with it except when finishing someone off. Yes, he can change a team fight. Yes, he is very good as a tank. Yes, his gigantic fruit head is extremely funny. But I find him extremely boring to play because I can rarely actually kill anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaysi Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 Hmm... I still think he's on a similar level to Micro. Being a tank, being able to pull(without missing), having the enemy stunned while being pulled is a bonus, obviously you'll need an impact dial or warpshard to make his pull as effective as other heroes but still... His ulti allows for sneaking up, extra damage, and escape. Mechanically he's similar to Micro, but maybe the numbers don't match up quite enough. I haven't played him enough to notice those things. Also, as of v1.10, his ult does 100 more spell damage at each level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revolution Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 People dont seem to understand that just because a hero can't kill does not make them weak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaysi Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 People dont seem to understand that just because a hero can't kill does not make them weak. Yea, support characters can be frustrating to play in pub games because you don't have good team mates to finish the kills and make full use of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FruitNinja Posted July 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2012 The thing is that micro has a teleport that makes him almost invincible, and a throw that can pull people across the river into your tower. It's extremely difficult to kill a micro who is at the short lane, because pretty much wherever the creeps are he can jump in from out of sight and throw you to the tower. Brine, on the other hand, isn't as big of a threat as he can't slow the whole team, can't farm as well (micro has 2 splash moves), and can only deal a bit of damage with his Q (which only scales with level. It's not possible to solo as Brine without losing your tower, pretty much), and yet is still somewhat item-dependent for tanking a considerable amount of damage. Pretty much ALL brine can ever do is pull someone into the team. He can't even pull a stunned ally to safety, or send zealots flying into his laning opponent, or so on. I suppose that, as a support hero, he is okay (nowhere near as good as micro or drake). He can initiate and stay around to take a little bit of health off of the tank. The problem is that he's hardly a threat after initiating (micro can still slime, drake can carry, balrog screeches and ults all the time, etc.) and so it's basically 4v5 with a little bit more damage on the 4 side. I'm not denying that he's effective for support, but the problem is that he is too weak to be fun. I can't stand playing him after trying a bunch of different builds. I might give him a few more tries, but every game I played with him so far I've either lost or have been useless as my team didn't even need me. I once farmed the whole game and still barely got enough items, because your allies almost always steal your creep kills. It's frustrating to play as him because all you really do is pull, Q, pull, Q, hit W if neccesary, pull, Q... repeatedly. If he could AA or use his ult more, then he'd be funner to play. But his ult is called "Nether Assassin"--an assasin who can't even scratch a hero that's moving away isn't very intimidating, nor is he fun to play. EDIT: It's not just that he's useless in pubs. I don't know why a team would pick him over micro, and if you already have a micro Brine will be almost completely obsolete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banzaiguy Posted July 16, 2012 Report Share Posted July 16, 2012 The thing about Brine's E is that it's the most powerful stun in the game(besides a long range rocket), and also by far the most damaging pull ability. Furthermore, it's really easy to land. Even if you don't move at all, clicking an enemy incapacitated him for 2.5 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doxthefox Posted July 16, 2012 Report Share Posted July 16, 2012 I think hes a bs character with no skill pull. Its obviously a rip off from skarner in lol except they took his ulti and called it a regular move. If anything hes op in that regard. Why pluck with drake or toss with micro when you can run up to them and pull them after a snipe or some other type of stun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banzaiguy Posted July 16, 2012 Report Share Posted July 16, 2012 I think hes a bs character with no skill pull. Its obviously a rip off from skarner in lol except they took his ulti and called it a regular move. If anything hes op in that regard. Why pluck with drake or toss with micro when you can run up to them and pull them after a snipe or some other type of stun. Bah, they ripped Skarner's ult off Firebat anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted July 16, 2012 Report Share Posted July 16, 2012 In my opinion the pull doesn't last long enough to be effective. But i agree, Brine is too weak, damage wise at least. It is difficult to get up next to the enemy while under the ultimate, making it just a sneaky little move that only lasts 15 seconds. I'm still a bit fuzzy on the details with the ultimate, but i think it should buff move speed (i don't believe it does as of now) and maybe have some added effect (slow maybe, stun would be a bit much). But, the idea of a warp shard and impact dial does seem pretty trolly, ill have to try it next chance i get. The range of the pull makes it difficult to land early game grabs though... If the enemy is hugging a tower (when i played i was zerg bot lane), I couldn't even get a grab off to bring them back for a kill (it didn't help too much that my laning partner was Egon either). But, I've stated it before, i think that Brine is just a pure tank with minimal damage abilities, stuns can be nice but ranges could be upped slightly IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FruitNinja Posted July 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2012 Actually, I found that with Brine the key to actually being extremely potent is using impact dial. With 2 impact dials you can pull a guy past Micro's maximum range and also disable him for a while. Now that I think of it... with impact dials he's pretty fun, because the pulls can now be spammed. He's also good because he can use the dials to catch up to runners and Q them. So actually, now I think Brine is decent as a team fighter. But he can only really succeed in a team fight, because his damage output is pathetic by really, any standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banzaiguy Posted July 16, 2012 Report Share Posted July 16, 2012 His damage output is pretty good. At level 11, total damage for E is 450(+150% INT) damage. Also, do note that you can cast spells without breaking burrow, so you can burrow, drag a guy to a safe rape corner, slow him with Q, then hit him with 400 extra spell damage. With INT scaling, you'll probably deal 900+ damage with Q taking off 10% of the guy's max hp . Pretty good IMO. Boros would be the only other initiator who could output that damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eliwan Posted July 16, 2012 Report Share Posted July 16, 2012 @Banzaiguy: Funny thing about casting a spell while burrowed: If you use Acid Spit? while burrowed, you stop being burrowed (but still are cloaked and do bonus damage). But yes, without an Impact Dial Brine is far too weak to do much. If you use Impact Dial while having a unit connected you actually can do a crapload of damage; as the damage Impale does appears to be based on how far you've been dragged and NOT per-second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spooky Posted July 16, 2012 Report Share Posted July 16, 2012 @Eliwan - I used Impact Dial on him and haven't noticed it does more damage this way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamantium Posted July 16, 2012 Report Share Posted July 16, 2012 The purpose of impact dial is to make a better use of his "pluck," and bring the enemy into more dangerous territory. The damage output is based on number of seconds the enemy is being dragged, which is 2.5 at all levels. Enemies will take damage as long as they are being dragged. If stationary, enemies will not take damage from this skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eliwan Posted July 16, 2012 Report Share Posted July 16, 2012 Weird, when I was Impaled by Roach and he used Impact Dial I took a whole ton of damage that obviously wasn't from anybody except the Roach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spooky Posted July 18, 2012 Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 Topic title has been changed into obsolete and I must admit not without reason. Current state of Brine makes him viable all game long - pretty strong early/mid game and very annoying and hard to kill late game. The main change was made to his heroic which was huge for him. This way he is very strong during laning faze and can last hit creeps very easily. Also great tool to finish off low health. Better farming potential affecting his late game state very much - he more tanky, much harder to kill and more viable for the team. I don't know what is the best build for him yet, but ATM I think stacking timescale mixing with some tanky items is a good way to go with him. It actually allows him to be constantly on his healing/speed buff (W), dragging opponents very often and spam his Q (btw. it takes huge amount of damage to Levi or making rush Aeon much easier). So may build contains: - Void steppers/Timescale boots - Impact Dial/Warp Shard -> later changed into sth else, isn't very crucial - Chilling Artifact - Yomato Reactor - HoM (for timescale and movement speed buff) or another Yomato Reactor - Carapace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lOvOl Posted July 18, 2012 Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 Topic title has been changed into obsolete and I must admit not without reason. Current state of Brine makes him viable all game long - pretty strong early/mid game and very annoying and hard to kill late game. The main change was made to his heroic which was huge for him. This way he is very strong during laning faze and can last hit creeps very easily. Also great tool to finish off low health. Better farming potential affecting his late game state very much - he more tanky, much harder to kill and more viable for the team. I don't know what is the best build for him yet, but ATM I think stacking timescale mixing with some tanky items is a good way to go with him. It actually allows him to be constantly on his healing/speed buff (W), dragging opponents very often and spam his Q (btw. it takes huge amount of damage to Levi or making rush Aeon much easier). So may build contains: - Void steppers/Timescale boots - Impact Dial/Warp Shard -> later changed into sth else, isn't very crucial - Chilling Artifact - Yomato Reactor - HoM (for timescale and movement speed buff) or another Yomato Reactor - Carapace Well I have tried something along those lines and it is still not very good to build him as pure tank (at least in public games). Two builds I am trying and up in the air on right now are a mostly int build, and a BHM build with stacked electric mantles. Both builds start off with superheated mantle and star treks are your first main items. If you want other boots be my guest, but this is just my preference here. The int build then goes lockbox, ihan, argus, nitrogen refit. Lockbox is key in allowing you to reliably land your ultimate for the initial blow, or if you prefer you can Q and E, drag, then lockbox, then finish with R and another Q all with ihan activated of course. The BHM build is all about stunning and procing BHM (which Brine is well suited for). You simply get black hole magnum, then 3 electric mantles. To reliably hit your R you simply activate mantle and charge someone, they shoot at you, get stunned and then you hit R procing BHM for a total of around 1000 spell damage in a single hit. Then you do your Q and E and activate another electric mantle if they stand their ground, proc another round or two of BHM and you have a very good 1v1 capability. In teamfights, you can gank and pull and all that stuff too. I have tried mixing pyre into the mix but I would only replace one mantle as the last item if you absolutely need it for tanky characters because brine is not exactly great at sustained DPS due to being melee and having no way to trap heroes like Zyrkhan can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheIntern Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 I don't know why you guys think he is weak... Just yesterday I played brine and went 11/1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 This thread is obsolete, he is not weak anymore, thank you and good night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamantium Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 Perhaps 1.) Everyone should read the title that states that this is now obsolete. 2.) Since the OP said it is now obsolete this thread should be closed too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FruitNinja Posted August 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 Yeah, Brine is rather strong now that people have figured out how to use him. Requesting that this is closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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