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There Should Be A Penalty For Not Attacking


lOvOl
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This happens in so many games these days thanks to the nice late game lag these days. Basically, you have games where half your team leaves in the first 10 minutes and you end up in a 3v5 or 2v5 or 2v4 or some situation where you are several players down and yet you still dominate the game with better skill and tactics. Nevertheless, the other team might have a couple heroes that are exceptional at turtling or at the very least blasting creep waves away in front of their towers. In these games the other team just camps on their towers until well over an hour has passed and the 1 FPS lag creeps up which essentially makes it a game of who has more players attack moving and who has better computers because 1 FPS is completely unplayable (you can't even scroll the screen).

 

So the game designers keep doing silly things with creating massive numbers of creeps as a practical joke on the AoS community that ensures late game lag will pop up sooner than later, then maybe fix things for a while and then make the same mistakes over and over again by increasing the creep count when everyone knows it causes lag on a lot of players machines. Nevertheless, many inferior players with superior computers will exploit this fact and not even bother attacking the whole game. They just sit in their base and don't even try and win, even when their whole team has maxed items as well. It is a cynical strategy but it works because there is no game mechanic which actually punishes teams for not attacking. Even worse, every time you push you need to go back home not to defend a back door attempt from the other team (which would mean they actually cross the river) but these massive creep waves that stack up and own your base when the other team is not even actively pushing a lane.

 

So I propose that towers should have the damage they take amplified over time for every minute that the enemy's towers don't take damage as well as increase the amount of damage they take for every enemy tower that remains. This means the longer you turtle and don't even leave your base, the easier it for the other team to destroy your base.

 

Also, the creep counts need to go down significantly because right now they are just ridiculous with how they stack up. I find it is a very bad idea not to get 4 points in utility for transport alone just because you need at least one guy on the team to be warping lane to lane just to beat back the creeps with some AoE item like superheated mantle or explosive retrofit or ability like spell storm that is efficient at clearing massive numbers of creeps. My last game I had to leave because of lag issues and I had almost 30000 minerals in the bank at the end. I mean shouldn't I be able to use this income somehow so as to punish the team that just sits in their base doing nothing?

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Amen. I find the best strategy is to just shout obscenities (or have someone else do it, if you are a polite gentleman, such as I) at the other team when they're down, causing RQs. I mean no one likes when someone leaves in the first 5 minutes of gameplay, but a RQ is pretty damn useful if you want to avoid wasting 40 minutes of your life, when you know you've won already, and the bastards are desperately dragging the game out for no apparent reason whatsoever (unless you count more time to blame each other for getting my team so fed). I play this game to compete with players, not to kill 500 ai-controlled creeps.

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Amen. I find the best strategy is to just shout obscenities (or have someone else do it, if you are a polite gentleman, such as I) at the other team when they're down, causing RQs. I mean no one likes when someone leaves in the first 5 minutes of gameplay, but a RQ is pretty damn useful if you want to avoid wasting 40 minutes of your life, when you know you've won already, and the bastards are desperately dragging the game out for no apparent reason whatsoever (unless you count more time to blame each other for getting my team so fed). I play this game to compete with players, not to kill 500 ai-controlled creeps.

This is something i never understood. If you don't want to play the game... Why not leave? Is a win really that important? Personally, I usually only stay games in ones where they still have some challenge, or I can experiment with builds. If it is a 5v1 or 5v2 (me being on 5) i will type -tm. If they don't accept, I eithter leave, or stay and see how the game goes. Primarily, I will only stay if the game has been decently long, as of beinging 2v5s aren't fun at all, but if 20 ot 30 minutes have past, I'd prefer to stay.

My Question is: You angry at the other team dragging out a game for no apparent reason. Well in general, the game is point since it is just a "Game". The only time a game would count is a tournament or recorded IH game. There really isn't a "rank" in pub (like Ladder). It seems like you think you are "Forced" to stay in the game. If you really value the win more, then obviously it is worth something to stay and fight for it, even if it is annoying.

It is surprising too, about how many people have said "Surrender," and have lost.

Of course, If I'm in the mood, If you ask politely, and I am even positive Myself that there is 0%, (Below at least 1%) chance of winning, if person asks me to surrender, I'll gladly surrender.

 

 

Surrender Please

 

 

Now Creep and lag problems. That is an entirely different issue... Massive AoE heroes have such a significant advantage during a push vs Artifact tower because there are literally 40 creeps per 30 seconds. Vs the Ultralisk, AA heroes are better (and casters are much weaker vs it).

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This is something i never understood. If you don't want to play the game... Why not leave? Is a win really that important? Personally, I usually only stay games in ones where they still have some challenge, or I can experiment with builds. If it is a 5v1 or 5v2 (me being on 5) i will type -tm. If they don't accept, I eithter leave, or stay and see how the game goes. Primarily, I will only stay if the game has been decently long, as of beinging 2v5s aren't fun at all, but if 20 ot 30 minutes have past, I'd prefer to stay.

My Question is: You angry at the other team dragging out a game for no apparent reason. Well in general, the game is point since it is just a "Game". The only time a game would count is a tournament or recorded IH game. There really isn't a "rank" in pub (like Ladder). It seems like you think you are "Forced" to stay in the game. If you really value the win more, then obviously it is worth something to stay and fight for it, even if it is annoying.

It is surprising too, about how many people have said "Surrender," and have lost.

Of course, If I'm in the mood, If you ask politely, and I am even positive Myself that there is 0%, (Below at least 1%) chance of winning, if person asks me to surrender, I'll gladly surrender.

 

 

Surrender Please

 

 

Now Creep and lag problems. That is an entirely different issue... Massive AoE heroes have such a significant advantage during a push vs Artifact tower because there are literally 40 creeps per 30 seconds. Vs the Ultralisk, AA heroes are better (and casters are much weaker vs it).

 

You are right ofc, and I do usually leave if I feel that it will take too long to finish. But I just feel that you should not need to, just because some jackass with time to kill decided that he won't leave. There should be methods to prevent this. To bring to an analogy, imagine you are playing a custom game of sc2. You are against a terran, whom you've beaten, clearly, by destroying his base, etc, etc. He floats his CC somewhere on a huge map. You don't even have any flying units, let alone got enough to quickly find his CC in a huge map. Would you honestly leave a game, and let a person whom you've clearly beating in micro, macro, everything take victory, even if it's a custom game and you don't move down the ladder if you leave? I personally would feel strongly tempted to wait the extra several minutes to build flyers, find the bastard, and kill his last building.

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His post is horrible as usual, he has a point with one thing though, it is flobing hard to kill the ancient if your enemy doesn't leave. I play a couple pubs every now and then and they tend to be extremely imbalanced games most of the time, and it's just a problem that it takes you 45 minutes to end the game when the game is basically won after 8 minutes.

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His post is horrible as usual, he has a point with one thing though, it is flobing hard to kill the ancient if your enemy doesn't leave. I play a couple pubs every now and then and they tend to be extremely imbalanced games most of the time, and it's just a problem that it takes you 45 minutes to end the game when the game is basically won after 8 minutes.

 

Yeah. Pushing base in AoS is pretty damn difficult, due to the very narrow layout, especially the tight proximity of several base towers and creep spawns.

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This happens in so many games these days thanks to the nice late game lag these days. Basically, you have games where half your team leaves in the first 10 minutes and you end up in a 3v5 or 2v5 or 2v4 or some situation where you are several players down and yet you still dominate the game with better skill and tactics. Nevertheless, the other team might have a couple heroes that are exceptional at turtling or at the very least blasting creep waves away in front of their towers. In these games the other team just camps on their towers until well over an hour has passed and the 1 FPS lag creeps up which essentially makes it a game of who has more players attack moving and who has better computers because 1 FPS is completely unplayable (you can't even scroll the screen).

 

So the game designers keep doing silly things with creating massive numbers of creeps as a practical joke on the AoS community that ensures late game lag will pop up sooner than later, then maybe fix things for a while and then make the same mistakes over and over again by increasing the creep count when everyone knows it causes lag on a lot of players machines. Nevertheless, many inferior players with superior computers will exploit this fact and not even bother attacking the whole game. They just sit in their base and don't even try and win, even when their whole team has maxed items as well. It is a cynical strategy but it works because there is no game mechanic which actually punishes teams for not attacking. Even worse, every time you push you need to go back home not to defend a back door attempt from the other team (which would mean they actually cross the river) but these massive creep waves that stack up and own your base when the other team is not even actively pushing a lane.

 

So I propose that towers should have the damage they take amplified over time for every minute that the enemy's towers don't take damage as well as increase the amount of damage they take for every enemy tower that remains. This means the longer you turtle and don't even leave your base, the easier it for the other team to destroy your base.

 

Also, the creep counts need to go down significantly because right now they are just ridiculous with how they stack up. I find it is a very bad idea not to get 4 points in utility for transport alone just because you need at least one guy on the team to be warping lane to lane just to beat back the creeps with some AoE item like superheated mantle or explosive retrofit or ability like spell storm that is efficient at clearing massive numbers of creeps. My last game I had to leave because of lag issues and I had almost 30000 minerals in the bank at the end. I mean shouldn't I be able to use this income somehow so as to punish the team that just sits in their base doing nothing?

I couldn't disagree more with you this time OvO, if you are having trouble after an HOUR of game, that means that you simply wasted the advantage of having 10 item slots more than the enemy team. Taser, Shrapnel, Chilling artifact, etc... there are so many items to shut down the enemy heros that with a 10 item advantage, you should not lose.
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As much as this may be a viable solution, it doesn't make any sense to try and balance the game in a manner that revolves around the likelihood of 1v5, 2v5, or 3v5 games. The game is designed to be played as 5v5. As such, it only makes sense to address those sorts of things when they have to do with 5v5 games. We just played an inhouse last night where we tried to turtle and the result of that was the other team gaining a big advantage due to neutrals/levi/aeon and they pushed right through the towers and won the game. If you want games to be balanced in some regard as such, play inhouses or don't leave just because you have a mumble player on your team since we aren't too likely to leave (when you joined a pub I was in OvO, it was just marche and I having fun testing lanes - not a pubstomp).

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Well.... you could build some actual dps on your dps heros instead of turning them into tanks owl.... You would find it much easier to kill towers.... Bout the only heros I have dificulty killing towers with are my casters, Ie raynor, rancor, mar, ect

 

True - since you seem to buy 4 tank items regardless of hero choice theres no surprise you are having trouble pushing.

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Go play an inhouse where people don't leave

 

Yah just entire teams end up leaving after a few deaths. I mean what percentage of IH games actually end by one team actually destroying the base tower of the other team? I would hazard a guess that the percentage is quite low.

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Uh I don't know what you are talking about with the lag - I have had 0 lag (hundreds of games) since the lag fix a while back even if games have gone over 2 hours.

 

After an hour most people have lag issues (at least with this patch). Also, I was playing Egon and had no problems but half the players on each team complained about Egon which means he is still as broken as ever (I thought his performance problems were addressed but apparently I was wrong or else he was rebroken again).

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Yah just entire teams end up leaving after a few deaths. I mean what percentage of IH games actually end by one team actually destroying the base tower of the other team? I would hazard a guess that the percentage is quite low.

 

Never have I seen an in-house end after "a few deaths"... Unlike some people, we know how to turtle and can actually turn it around... When they're in our base and we know it's over, we have the good sense to surrender.

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I couldn't disagree more with you this time OvO, if you are having trouble after an HOUR of game, that means that you simply wasted the advantage of having 10 item slots more than the enemy team. Taser, Shrapnel, Chilling artifact, etc... there are so many items to shut down the enemy heros that with a 10 item advantage, you should not lose.

 

I think you have it backwards. In these games we will be down players but dominating the game and the other team of 4 or 5 (sometimes premade) sits in their base and refuses to attack, even with maxed items because they suck or whatever. They have the item advantage, not my team. If there are only two players left on one team and 5 on another then you just have to split push to win because each hero on the team with only two players can only completely defend one lane at a time. Eventually, you whittle away the towers and win. I am talking about where you have people quit/leave and you still dominate the other team in the open field but they just camp their base until you can't micro your hero anymore due to lag issues. Independent of lag, you should be penalized for camping in your base for whatever reason.

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True - since you seem to buy 4 tank items regardless of hero choice theres no surprise you are having trouble pushing.

 

What are you talking about. I pretty much always make it a priority to have a lane pushing item in my arsenal. But even if you have a ridiculous amount of DPS, you can't kill towers without instadying yourself if you don't have creeps around to soak the damage and remove the damage resist. A determined team of turtlers with the right heroes will just instablast away each creep wave making it next to impossible to take down their towers without your whole team of 2 or 3 players dying.

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Yah just entire teams end up leaving after a few deaths. I mean what percentage of IH games actually end by one team actually destroying the base tower of the other team? I would hazard a guess that the percentage is quite low.

 

Only scrubs rq ih games. I only recall one case where rq was a major issue ever and that guy was never seen again.

 

PS you're my favorite poster, i hope you never leave the community. <3

PPS R.I.P. boots.

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I think you have it backwards. In these games we will be down players but dominating the game and the other team of 4 or 5 (sometimes premade) sits in their base and refuses to attack, even with maxed items because they suck or whatever. They have the item advantage, not my team. If there are only two players left on one team and 5 on another then you just have to split push to win because each hero on the team with only two players can only completely defend one lane at a time. Eventually, you whittle away the towers and win. I am talking about where you have people quit/leave and you still dominate the other team in the open field but they just camp their base until you can't micro your hero anymore due to lag issues. Independent of lag, you should be penalized for camping in your base for whatever reason.

I know what you mean, i've been in those situations and in those situations i change to a total support build of: Lockbox, Taser, Shrapnel, Chilling/CoA, SHC and Sunflare, and request two another guy to get taser and shrapnel and another shrapnel as well, with that you can freely engage any 5v3 battle even near a T3 tower. If their team is composed of AA heros, this will flob em up for 12 seconds, enouch time to focus them down with ease, specially if u have CC heros (Gotta love play Rory in pubs :D). Of course, if you have a horrible feeder team then you are plain screwed...
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Yah just entire teams end up leaving after a few deaths. I mean what percentage of IH games actually end by one team actually destroying the base tower of the other team? I would hazard a guess that the percentage is quite low.

 

Ah yes, another great example of how little you know about the IH community... I would estimate that around 60 percent of games end with the destruction of one of the base towers, about 38 percent end when one team surrenders two or three minutes prior to the destruction of their base tower, and maybe 2 percent end with a surrender around the 25 to 35 minute mark (basically only when the game is incredibly one-sided).

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