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Balrog - should be auto banned?


Spooky
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That is the question which was asked yestarday after inhouse game. Without doubt it is very strong char if played correctly. The main problem with Balrog is how good he scales into mid-late game. He only need to spend 4.2k minerals to become a great tank - Olympic Torch and Spell Buffer. Its everything Balrog needs for mid game. From this point he can snowball very easily. With full stacks at lvl 16 he already would have about 5k health and over 50% spell resist. Of course if there would be darpa and shadow with Pyre in enemy team his life wouldn't be so easy but still he can sustain in team fights for a quite long time and do his tank job. However Balrog wouldn't be considered OP only because he can tank so well. The problem is his Vampirism which makes he can deal a lot of damage as well. With 5k health he already does 250 more damage per hit and he can reach this point very fast with 2 cheap items. This makes him a hard counter to almost every squishy low armor INT heroes like Rory, Dustin, Raynor, Null and so on. Very very late game his power drastically drops when every one has his full builds with better sustainability and high damage output potential.

 

So my question is - is Balrog really so OP? I mean if some AGI carry like Darpa, Shadow or Tosh is ahead then Balrog doesn't seem so strong and he can't do too much. However when Balrog is ahead he is almost unstoppable until very late game. In other hand even if Balrog had bad start and enemy team don't have good carry he can start snowball after getting few Torch stacks. Once I was very behind, I died 3 times during laning faze but after 2 passively played team fights I got my Torch stacks and after never died till end.

 

So maybe there is need for some nerf. I would suggest one of two:

- reduce his vampirism to do 4% his current health

- reduce his ulti stacks into (+100/175/250) from (+100/200/300) per stack - this also would decreased damage from vampirism little bit.

 

Or maybe it isn't a problem with Balrog itself but rather Olympic Torch and how easily u can get stacks with it? Maybe in case of snowball items u should get at least 2 assist or 1 kill to get 1 stack? Or maybe increase number of stacks up to 10 and decrease profit for each one? Because now u can get all stacks after one team fight. It doesn't looks like snowball for me, rather like flood. Anyway in this case it would be nice if u wouldn't loose all stack after one death.

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I agree balrog should be auto, beside the retarded snowballing items (torch valour en gene), he's just to powerful.

His ulti lvl 3 is scary to any squishy heros, his reverse pyre (vampirism) makes the first hits he does even more devastating.

 

He can get 4k hp without spending 4k cash which is fine by itself but he is such a great support with the passive teamleach and active debuff removal.

If a balrog builds tank, spellbuffer and electric mantle he can't be stopped. Any AA attempt would be suicide, and casters can't burst hard enough to kill one of the best tanks ingame.

 

And if you reach verry latelategame just get spellbuffer electric mantle and then stack organic carapace. You reach the 8k hp marker and just wont go down.

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And if you reach verry latelategame just get spellbuffer electric mantle and then stack organic carapace. You reach the 8k hp marker and just wont go down.

Maybe now it would be viable since criticals aren't so devastating but still against full geared AA carries Balrog can't do too much even with 8k hp.

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Maybe snowball items, different from other games are really easy to stack, specially in pubs.

 

some like 10/15 charges, stacking double per kill than assist could be more accurated. ( If it were too hard item could be nerfed/buffed a bit).

 

I find balrog ok but it is true he is a hero who snowball very easily if playing properly giving a big advantatge mid/late game. Even being killable at full items by many carries, game could end before this happens.

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I privately thought this too. The problem, however, is not with snowball items, but rather Balrog's heroic passive, which enables him to get tank items, which give him more physical damage than aa items give other heroes. For example: Organic Carapace and Darwin's Might.

 

OC: gives 60 str, 650 hp. Balrog gets 30 from primary attribute, strength. Then he gets 5% of current health when he attacks. So (650 + 60*10)*0.05 = 1250*0.05 = 62.5. So overal OC gives balrog 92.5 damage.

 

Darwin's Might gives 50 Str, 40 weapon damage, and 7 armor. Balrog gets 25 from primary attribute, 40 from bonus stats, and (50*10)*0.05 = 25 from passive, totaling 90 damage.

 

Another issue is that spell resist items were majorly buffed. You can get as much as 35% spell resist from a single item. As soon as Balrog gets Sliptyde Scythe, Spell Buffer, Electric Mantle, he has

 

20 + 20 + 15 + 18 + 15 spell resist, which if my calculations are right, gives him 62% spell resist. Add in an Organic Carapace, a Darwin's Might, and a Barbed Platting (if aa heroes are being pesky bastards, otherwise FoE) and you are God.

 

 

Still, all of this costs a lot, so if he has a rough start, he won't get those items any time soon. So come on, you are Inhouse players, you've learned to prevent Boros, Nova, Shadow, and Zera snowballing too hard (at least that's the impression you give) so you should probably not be having those problems with Balrog. My advice is SFGs, Barbed Platting, Shadowmourne.

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That Balrog is good in an inhouse with players "X" doesn't mean that it is OP. Maybe some bad, is very difficult to know if a hero this OP that should see in a private game 1 vs 1, not in inhouse where maybe noobs or not you know play that should not be so. On the other hand the only thing having balrog is much life and damage/lifesteal.Probare with a Balrog friend in 1 vs 1 in a private game and upload repetition and will put the names of heroes who can kill him.

 

 

Replay checked here: https://www.rapidshare.com/#download|171|3113084095|Balrog%20not%20OP.SC2Replay|97

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Balrog is a good hero, but OP? Seriously, he is annoying to face in the mid-game when he gets fed by bad players, but axe and barbed and pyre which are relatively cheap items ruin his sustain by a huge amount.

 

If you build your hero squishy, you need some sort of evasion utility like warp shard because if balrog gets fed he can kill you pretty quick with a lunge, screech, some AA attacks and his ult. Otherwise, if you use a rather balanced build of defense and offense you should do alright.

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That Balrog is good in an inhouse with players "X" doesn't mean that it is OP. Maybe some bad, is very difficult to know if a hero this OP that should see in a private game 1 vs 1, not in inhouse where maybe noobs or not you know play that should not be so. On the other hand the only thing having balrog is much life and damage/lifesteal.Probare with a Balrog friend in 1 vs 1 in a private game and upload repetition and will put the names of heroes who can kill him.

 

 

Replay checked here: https://www.rapidshare.com/#download|171|3113084095|Balrog%20not%20OP.SC2Replay|97

noob!! Is a game 5 vs 5!! Not a pub!!.. In pubs is all allowed :p
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@ snowball items- maybe it would be a good idea to make it so you have to get twice as many stacks to max them but each stack gave half as much. I feel that for being snowball items they snowball really fast.

 

@balrog- if you feed balrog early game he will wreck you, no different that if you feed a shadow or nova or some of the other heros. if you dont feed balrog early game and even kill him 1-2 times he becomes so worthless as he is big slow and easy to kite

 

also toxi counters balrog hard in lane as he can haras from just outside jump range and slow you with his passive

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Just in case some people haven't noticed, balrog's ultimate at level 3 deals exactly the same amount of "base damage"

as a cyprus level 3 ultimate excluding pillars while giving extra stacks of health. Yay for Tank Cyprus!

 

I think his slow on target and debuff immunity allows him to always get his kills with ulti as balrog can't be stunned or slowed,

while the target is taking his AA and heroic passive damage. They also have the same duration at most levels so it always proc well

together.

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Just in case some people haven't noticed, balrog's ultimate at level 3 deals exactly the same amount of "base damage"

as a cyprus level 3 ultimate excluding pillars while giving extra stacks of health. Yay for Tank Cyprus!

 

 

 

In case you have not noticed, it deal physical damage, meaning that for example, agility heroes, which are cyprus' favorite prey, will simply shrug off ~ 60% of it, without even going for unusual tank items.

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That Balrog is good in an inhouse with players "X" doesn't mean that it is OP. Maybe some bad, is very difficult to know if a hero this OP that should see in a private game 1 vs 1, not in inhouse where maybe noobs or not you know play that should not be so. On the other hand the only thing having balrog is much life and damage/lifesteal.Probare with a Balrog friend in 1 vs 1 in a private game and upload repetition and will put the names of heroes who can kill him.

 

 

Replay checked here: https://www.rapidsha...OP.SC2Replay|97

The balrog was played by a noob, nevertheless he could still tank for 5 seconds at least.

And as spooky mentioned he falls off in the late-lategame, whilst his midgame makes him to strong so he should be autobanned imo.

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LoL for guys who play squishy int chars without armor and glass-cannon aa builds and want to nerf barlog instead. Some teams in pubs dont even pick tanks and complain that barlog/vorpal are OP. Everybody just want to make 1x1 kills.

Agree on snowballing items though. If aa carry hero gets valor stacks faster RIP barlog and the rest.

At least the stacks should only be rewarded for kills not for assists.

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To answer your question, no balrog isn't op, in the hands of someone skilled he is strong but not op imo. Sure his vampirism will be a problem for squishies who go all out glass cannon and don't invest into hp/armor items, but other than that, balrog is basically just a very good tank who excels at destroying squishies, is a good counter to Rory and that's pretty much it.

 

Edit: I actually thought this was a troll post when i first went into it, but that's probably because I see very few skilled balrogs in pubs, I think one of the best balrog players I have seen is fazl, but I dont think he plays anymore

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Just in case some people haven't noticed, balrog's ultimate at level 3 deals exactly the same amount of "base damage"

as a cyprus level 3 ultimate excluding pillars while giving extra stacks of health. Yay for Tank Cyprus!

 

I think his slow on target and debuff immunity allows him to always get his kills with ulti as balrog can't be stunned or slowed,

while the target is taking his AA and heroic passive damage. They also have the same duration at most levels so it always proc well

together.

 

Physical damage. If you have no armor or defense you deserve to die to Balrog. It is like not bothering to get health or spell resist if there is a Cyprus in the game and then crying how OP Cyprus is because he can one shot you.

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https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B7t7SRn8YUwxdzcyUHdqODV2STA/edit here is the replay from INH I was talking about.

 

 

To answer your question, no balrog isn't op, in the hands of someone skilled he is strong but not op imo. Sure his vampirism will be a problem for squishies who go all out glass cannon and don't invest into hp/armor items, but other than that, balrog is basically just a very good tank who excels at destroying squishies, is a good counter to Rory and that's pretty much it.

 

Edit: I actually thought this was a troll post when i first went into it, but that's probably because I see very few skilled balrogs in pubs, I think one of the best balrog players I have seen is fazl, but I dont think he plays anymore

Try to think what he can provide for entire team: leech aura, debuff immunity, he can tank ridiculous amount of damage, take down enemy INT support with few hits.

 

 

2 items; Pyre and Shadowmourne. RIP Balrog.

Balrog with Spell Buffer, Olympic Torch, Scythe Sliptide has: [20% + 15%] + [10%] + [18% + 15%] + [15%] (build in SR) = 64% spell resist. So Pyre doesn't do much to him. Shadowmourne either as he is build as tank, not as dps.

 

Anyway he got slight nerf. No his vampirism do 4% of current health so with 6k hp it is 240 damage, not 300. Isn't very huge difference but it should slow down his farming little bit.

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Snoball items are just a joke, a hero should snowball naturally like 5.14 when we had 25 levels, a hero could snowball if ppl lose money on death. But getting 75/100/100 str/int/agi for just a succesful teamfight makes no sense for me...

I must say i really miss the 25 Levels even tho i only played Aeon of storms with the 25 levels for about 4 months. I wonder what would happen if the game had Level 5 Abilities [XD]? (Lv3 still final but you would get them slightly later like, 6//12//18)

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4th level ulti- oh the horror.

 

System.Cyprus: 1000 (+100% INT) spell damage

Balrog: Like 900 (+100% INT) spell damage

 

DARPA: 2 second cooldown lol

 

Boros: 11 strikes ._.

 

Shadow: 25% timescale qq

 

Rory: Like a 450 true damage turret ._.

 

Raynor: 375 (+100% INT) damage ._.

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4th level ulti- oh the horror.

 

System.Cyprus: 1000 (+100% INT) spell damage

Balrog: Like 900 (+100% INT) spell damage

 

DARPA: 2 second cooldown lol

 

Boros: 11 strikes ._.

 

Shadow: 25% timescale qq

 

Rory: Like a 450 true damage turret ._.

 

Raynor: 375 (+100% INT) damage ._.

Gara +30% timescale, 240[+35%int] Per scv. CD: 15 seconds (-15 per level right?) Ftw.

 

P.S. balrog's final still deals physical, not spell damage.

Dustin: CD: 5 secs xD

Egon: +260 INT

Zeratul: 7.5 second Chronosphere.

 

Oh yea: Micro Throw: 18 unit radius :D

Toxi: Tornado do 80 instead of 60 :D

Vergil: 300[+40%int] per slash :P

Queen: Bangling spawn CD: 8 seconds LOL, Ultralisk: 30 seconds :D

Maar CD: 30 seconds :D teleport everywhere!

Erekul: -3 CD per hit. 45% Missing Hp :D

Tbone: CD: 45 seconds (15 seconds with charges) :D

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