Shade on killing spree.. till the barb plate is out!

[Starallys]

Hi guys,

 

Just need some advises on shade (turn nova to shade now). I have problem with shade every single time I met with tanker especially with

barb plate which I can't really kill him alone since the 50% is too much.

(I've tried IH with my friend and seems even rog with 6k hp + barb enough to kill me, he didn't even have to cast or attack)

 

I don't know if Axe workable or do i need anything else? I am happy to switch from Nova to shade but then, is still hard to kill good tanker.

(Rog and drake is the hardest to counter with)

 

Tks guys, awaiting soonest help here. Muaks.

 

Cheers!

From Starallys. (NA)

[KinGofDaBerG]

This isn't really a balance debate, as your asking for help, which is fine, but please post in the correct sections.

If you do have a balance concern I'll give you to the end of the day to edit, if not I'll move to the Aeon of Storms Lobby.

 

Also to address your question, Leech will not save you from barbed plating if the enemy gets a executioners axe. You will have to alter your build to counter the barbed, since barbed dead Spell damage spell resist with some Leech would help, but building a Spell damage build would help you kill the enemy without dieing to plating, Pyre comes to mind... And building yourself semi tanky to resist the barbed is always a good idea.

[Takeray]

There are many items for carry AA which can mitigate Barbed damage. Schiptide, Galactid Defender are good options.

[Midknight]

A low-damage/high-speed build coupled with some spell resist and HP will do you wonders.

 

Pyre is for all Shadow builds so that ought to be a given. Beyond that, Sliptide is nice because it gives you spell resist, more spell resist when attacking (when barbed would matter anyway), and Agi. I'd say try the following:

 

Pyre

Sliptide

HoM

Lightning Rod

Darwin's

Electric Mantle

[BestZeratul]

HoM

Lightning Rod

Electric Mantle

 

[BestPlayer]

HoM

Lightning Rod

Electric Mantle

[Eliwan]

Instead of just posting gigantic GIFs, explain what's wrong with those items.

I see no problems: Also you made me break my "check forums and don't post" >=[

-HoM gives movement and attack speed, CDR, and Weapon Damage. Good escape active.

-Lightning Rod stacks up spell damage on the enemies, gives weapon speed and more tank.

-Electric Mantle grants SR, CDR, and even STR for tank. And combos with HoM to prevent enemies from getting you in a dead-lock.

[Psyght]

Instead of just posting gigantic GIFs, explain what's wrong with those items.

I see no problems: Also you made me break my "check forums and don't post" >=[

-HoM gives movement and attack speed, CDR, and Weapon Damage. Good escape active.

-Lightning Rod stacks up spell damage on the enemies, gives weapon speed and more tank.

-Electric Mantle grants SR, CDR, and even STR for tank. And combos with HoM to prevent enemies from getting you in a dead-lock.

well i dont see lightning rod to be a good end game item.

electric mantle is a poor choice on shade IMO, you could use much better items there.

HoM, i dont see whats wrong with it on shade, i get it almost every game, cause i open with leaching sabre

[God]

pyre

eye of duran

khali stone

shrink ray

[Eliwan]

EoD... maybe; but I would think that Leeching would work better, no?

 

Anti-Barbed build would be...

Isomorphic Pyre

Sliptide Scythe

Lightning Rod

Stun Baton

Shadowmourne

Lethal Barb

 

No? Plenty of A.S. with those items and Lethal caps it [but I think you almost hit the cap without] and Shadowmourne just adds insult to injury; with Spell Damage from 4 of your items you're practically immune to Barbed as you don't deal much Weapon Damage [maybe 180 or so]-- you just attack an awful lot.

[Azrael]

EoD... maybe; but I would think that Leeching would work better, no?

 

Anti-Barbed build would be...

Isomorphic Pyre

Sliptide Scythe

Lightning Rod

Stun Baton

Shadowmourne

Lethal Barb

 

No? Plenty of A.S. with those items and Lethal caps it [but I think you almost hit the cap without] and Shadowmourne just adds insult to injury; with Spell Damage from 4 of your items you're practically immune to Barbed as you don't deal much Weapon Damage [maybe 180 or so]-- you just attack an awful lot.

For Pubs iwould change the sliptide, stun batton, lethal and the lghning for: Sunflare, Darwins, HoM and a Ravager if going against tanky heros, against other AA i would change the HoM for a Barbed Plating and Ravager for a Shadowmourne.

[Itsthatguy]

I find Eletrical mantle to be very good on AA heroes. As an enemy AA hero tries to burst you down, he takes massive damage and is stunned for 1 seconds (2.5 seconds) by this time, your already usually done with half or almost all his hp. Not to mention, it gives you time to react if something wrong is happening, or to get the jump earlier.

Do i see it countering Barb armor tho? No

 

If your sick of barb armor. Just go leo. Make them punish for getting Barb armor, by using reflect which will increase ur weapon damage (dealing bonus damage equal to about 35% weap as true damage) [Which won't proc barb]

[Aellectris]

Hand of Mengsk isn't a very effective item because other items fit the roles better. Lightning rod doesn't deal much damage. Electric wouldn't be that useful.

 

Rather, if they built 6k hp AND have barbed, they probably don't have much spell resist. As a result, build pyre and attack speed with a darwins. Build a parallax to debuff executioners.

[lOvOl]

Midnight actually has kinda what my actual Shadow build these days is because of how easy it is to counter AA heroes if you are determined to stack anti-AA items and health.

 

I go:

 

Supherheated Mantle

Isopmorphic Pyre

Ihan - (yah the int wont scale anything but the mana is very useful for how I play shade and the health is very useful too)

Sliptyde Scythe

Organic Carapace

Barbed Plating

Electric Mantle

 

That is 7 items but you obviously sell the ihan at some point. When attacking you have 53% spell resist which causes barbed to do only 25% damage to you, but since most of your damage will be spell damage from pyre and sliptyde and shade, that means of the 200 or so weapon damage you do, only 50 of it hurts you from each strike with barbed.

 

Also, there is no lifesteal in this build but you have 4k health and 68 armor with barbed so enemies essentially take twice as much spell damage as they deal in physical damage to you. Not to mention you won't be able to double kite Shadow since he has not only vortex but electric mantle as well as a backup. I don't like lifesteal much these days because axe hard counters it pretty easily unless you get a ridiculous amount of lifesteal and then you are very squishy which is a bad idea on melee heroes. And because of your raw health and spell resist, you can soak a lot of damage from casters.

 

In conventional Shadow builds a Drake player with barbed, electric mantle, axe, shrapnel, and other tank gear can easily kill you by having yourself kill yourself, but I find I can take fully tanked out Drakes 1v1 on this build (though obviously you want to focus your attention on the squishies first).

 

You won't have a super high attack rate or super high damage, but you will be very hard to kill and you will eventually wear everything down. Then can use repeated shrapnel cloaks and you can still soak the damage and live to keep fighting.

[Doom]

lOvOl, you take a simple and plausible concept, and just overdo it. And I mean that as a compliment. I too like to add one or two tank items on Shadow (would rather, if I were to play him, which I NEVER do), but my facial expression, when I read your build, can be best summarized by this (till about 49.5 second mark) :

 

 

Electric Mantle is basically useless, since no one can click on you anyway, if you want tanking and spell resist item, a Galactic Defendor would serve it's purpose. SHM could easily be replaced with CoA, for actual leech, some hp, weapon speed, etc. Parallax is a better than sliptide, most of the time, and largely removes problem with Ax, and somewhat removes the problems with E. Mantle, if you time it right.

 

THE tankiest that I would go would be:

 

Pyre, Galactic Defendor, Organic Carapace, Time Splitter, Taser, Darwin's Might.

 

More likely something like: Pyre, Galactic Defendor, HoM, Organic Carapace, Stun Batton, SHC

[lOvOl]

lOvOl, you take a simple and plausible concept, and just overdo it. And I mean that as a compliment. I too like to add one or two tank items on Shadow (would rather, if I were to play him, which I NEVER do), but my facial expression, when I read your build, can be best summarized by this (till about 49.5 second mark) :

 

 

Electric Mantle is basically useless, since no one can click on you anyway, if you want tanking and spell resist item, a Galactic Defendor would serve it's purpose. SHM could easily be replaced with CoA, for actual leech, some hp, weapon speed, etc. Parallax is a better than sliptide, most of the time, and largely removes problem with Ax, and somewhat removes the problems with E. Mantle, if you time it right.

 

THE tankiest that I would go would be:

 

Pyre, Galactic Defendor, Organic Carapace, Time Splitter, Taser, Darwin's Might.

 

More likely something like: Pyre, Galactic Defendor, HoM, Organic Carapace, Stun Batton, SHC

 

I have used this build against premades with TERRRRRRRRRRRRRIBLE allies and with half their team with the usual tankers like Micro, Zyrk, Drake, Vorp, etc, and have had runs of 40 kills and maybe half a dozen deaths using this build. The point of it is the synergy and abusing the fact Shadow has super high agility which gives him great armor which of course makes barbed an even better item on him, as well as the fact you have solid spell resist to deal with casters or tanks with barbed plating themselves.

 

And electric mantle is extremely useful on Shadow with this build because it provides spell resist (which you need to soak pyre damage and barbed damage), cooldown (helps a lot with shading), and health, but most importantly the utility of its passive in allowing you to save your vortex because you simply charge an enemy, they attack and get stunned, you close the distance with shade and start attacking. They blink away and you vortex them again and finish them off. Cyprus can be a real pain in the butt for Shadow but with this build the spell resist has Cyprus tickling you and your stun from electric and your vortex means they can't kite you without risking death.

 

And sliptyde is better than parallax because it gives very good damage, solid agility, EXTRA SPEED, and almost as much spell resist as spell buffer. One could even argue it is an OP item, yet few people seem to buy it for whatever reason. I mean yah if there is a Rory in the game, then maybe parallax would be a good replacement for electric mantle, but in terms of its balance of offense and defense and utility with the bonus speed it is way better on a hero like Shadow. I use almost the same build on DARPA as well except I replace superheated with an executioner's axe, though late game if you needed an axe you could sell superheated for an axe without a problem since both are cheap items.

 

I have not played Shadow in about a week cause unless my team all feeds and rages in the first 10 minutes, it is usually an easy win and playing more challenging heroes like Jackson (LOL at his nerf) is more fun.

[MarXX]

im a bit out of the loop but since when did barbed plating return spell damage? its been known to deal true damage before mitigation.

[lOvOl]

im a bit out of the loop but since when did barbed plating return spell damage? its been known to deal true damage before mitigation.

 

No it does 50% physical damage returned as spell damage. There was a time when it did 50% true damage, but that was due to side effects from the 1.5 Blizzard patch.

[BestZeratul]

I have used this build against premades with TERRRRRRRRRRRRRIBLE allies and with half their team with the usual tankers like Micro, Zyrk, Drake, Vorp, etc, and have had runs of 40 kills and maybe half a dozen deaths using this build. The point of it is the synergy and abusing the fact Shadow has super high agility which gives him great armor which of course makes barbed an even better item on him, as well as the fact you have solid spell resist to deal with casters or tanks with barbed plating themselves.

 

And electric mantle is extremely useful on Shadow with this build because it provides spell resist (which you need to soak pyre damage and barbed damage), cooldown (helps a lot with shading), and health, but most importantly the utility of its passive in allowing you to save your vortex because you simply charge an enemy, they attack and get stunned, you close the distance with shade and start attacking. They blink away and you vortex them again and finish them off. Cyprus can be a real pain in the butt for Shadow but with this build the spell resist has Cyprus tickling you and your stun from electric and your vortex means they can't kite you without risking death.

 

And sliptyde is better than parallax because it gives very good damage, solid agility, EXTRA SPEED, and almost as much spell resist as spell buffer. One could even argue it is an OP item, yet few people seem to buy it for whatever reason. I mean yah if there is a Rory in the game, then maybe parallax would be a good replacement for electric mantle, but in terms of its balance of offense and defense and utility with the bonus speed it is way better on a hero like Shadow. I use almost the same build on DARPA as well except I replace superheated with an executioner's axe, though late game if you needed an axe you could sell superheated for an axe without a problem since both are cheap items.

 

I have not played Shadow in about a week cause unless my team all feeds and rages in the first 10 minutes, it is usually an easy win and playing more challenging heroes like Jackson (LOL at his nerf) is more fun.

 

You are not supposed to tank several people when you plan an AGI carry, your team is supposed to protect you the best they can so you can deal a lot of damage. Of course you have to go for some survivability items otherise you get one shot by any single burst hero in the game, but you shouldn't build a DPS so he can tank the whole team.

[akanna]

If its just 1 tank giving you trouble in a game, you could always try a sunflare gun...instantly remove 25% of their health before you even attack, and its spell damage so you don't have to worry about barbed. Plus it gives you something to do on your approach since you have no ranged attacks....It also offers some built in leech.

 

Its pretty rare to have more than 1-2 tanks in a game, so you shouldnt need to build to counter 3+ tanks ever

 

You should already have prye and HOM in your build so

Solarflare -> vortex -> pop HOM and finish off with stepping strikes (ult as needed)

 

The other benefit to this is that it gives you something to do during the most obvious counter to shadow....shrapnel cloak

And gives you some form of ranged attack

 

If you have multiple units building counters to shadow like shrapnel, barbed etc Im not sure there is anything you can do, but try to pick off the weaker links and vortex yourself when they pop shrapnel to avoid damage till you can attack again. (especially if they have strong ranged units to pick you off fast)

[Apocalyptic]

You are not supposed to tank several people when you plan an AGI carry, your team is supposed to protect you the best they can so you can deal a lot of damage. Of course you have to go for some survivability items otherise you get one shot by any single burst hero in the game, but you shouldn't build a DPS so he can tank the whole team.

 

lOVOl's build makes sense given that he does not play with a team, but if you want to play a hero to their full potential you obviously need a team to fill some roles so that you don't have to fill all of them yourself.

[Jaysi]

I still think Darwins Might would be a better replacement for SHM Lovol... You say leech takes away from your tankyness yet DM doesnt. A little bit of leech goes a long way IMO, you already have near 4k hp, if that forces them to get an Axe to deal with it you've already won, because it gives 500 hp and 40 damage otherwise. Also, Parralax sounds more useful to me than EM incase they do get a few Shrapnels or some other slow/stun, similar stats otherwise. But I like the rest of your build, sounds quite good for a pub with fail team mates which can be quite often...

[lOvOl]

I still think Darwins Might would be a better replacement for SHM Lovol... You say leech takes away from your tankyness yet DM doesnt. A little bit of leech goes a long way IMO, you already have near 4k hp, if that forces them to get an Axe to deal with it you've already won, because it gives 500 hp and 40 damage otherwise. Also, Parralax sounds more useful to me than EM incase they do get a few Shrapnels or some other slow/stun, similar stats otherwise. But I like the rest of your build, sounds quite good for a pub with fail team mates which can be quite often...

 

Late game I feel mantle is important if you don't have high weapon damage and an explosive retrofit because winning the game is often more about who can clear creep waves the most efficiently, rather than simply killing the enemy hero. Superheated mantle can do 1000 DPS or more to all the creeps in the area while Darwin's merely helps give you a little bit more sustain. And yes, fail teammates is the name of the game in pub games, though I find the better the other players are the better tank builds on melee heroes happen to be because of all the EZPZ counters to lifesteal and squishy agi builds.