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How exactly is one supposed to counter shadow's ult...


FruitNinja
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:BoundaryScanner::SmokeScreen::ElectricMantle::BarbedPlating::SchrodingersLockbox::MossbergTaser::ShrapnelCloak::ImpactDial:

 

 

The above are items that can prevent disaster somewhat well. None of these items, or even combination of these items is foolproof. The there is no counter to a shadow that has the counters to your counters against an average shadow.

 

Oh and since Shadow is one of the holy trinity of op melee agi carries, which are coincidentally the three strongest heroes in the game atm, the correct way of beating him is using multiple heroes from the holy trinity than his team has, or making him RQ early on.

 

There are also non-holy-trinity heroes that can counter the holy trinity, examples being Rancor, Mandrake, Null, Starscream, Darpa, Raynor, Voltron, Nova, others.

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Buying scans. Thanks for making such interesting threads.

 

Using a slot for a 120 mineral item is a perfect counter.

 

Thank you for your in-depth response.

 

:BoundaryScanner::SmokeScreen::ElectricMantle::BarbedPlating::SchrodingersLockbox::MossbergTaser::ShrapnelCloak::ImpactDial:

 

 

The above are items that can prevent disaster somewhat well. None of these items, or even combination of these items is foolproof. The there is no counter to a shadow that has the counters to your counters against an average shadow.

 

These are all fine and good when it's shadow vs a team of 5, but when you have boros, shadow, nova, rory, and cyprus, it's a bit difficult to stand a chance against the other four after you've used everything you got against shadow.

 

You can't 1v1 shadow, so you can't assume shadow is alone every single time.

 

If there was a consumable slot then boundary scanner would be a good idea. But there isn't, so you have to sacrifice an item to buy it, and then your enemy has a galactic defender, darwin's might, maybe an argus crystal or a gravity edge, while you do not.

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Using a slot for a 120 mineral item is a perfect counter.

 

Thank you for your in-depth response.

 

Well it is certainly better than getting raped with 6 slots and making threads cause you couldn't figure out that having one of your 5 players in the team sacrifice an item slot for the sake of the team is much better than getting raped.

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Well it is certainly better than getting raped with 6 slots and making threads cause you couldn't figure out that having one of your 5 players in the team sacrifice an item slot for the sake of the team is much better than getting raped.

 

Yes, but shadow has teammates, which are going to be stronger because someone bought 3 boundary scanners just to avoid having his entire team destroyed by a single ability.

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Yes, but shadow has teammates, which are going to be stronger because someone bought 3 boundary scanners just to avoid having his entire team destroyed by a single ability.

 

Yes, surely your team having 29 items instead of 30 items is gonna lose you the game, that one item is surely more important than having vision during shadow ult. Jesus ur so flobing bad, and so flobing bad at arguing about strategy, keep diggin ur grave small son.

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It's not debatable, ask every good player and they will give you the same answer, you are just mad cause you thought something was imbalanced when it wasn't (hence you posting this in balance debates rofmao lmao) and it turned out you are just bad and didn't know about most obvious counter. I won the tournament small son; so now sit down, or imma sit u down.

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You could try tanking it buy going:

:LifeTechNanosuit::OrganicCarapace: :OrganicCarapace: :OrganicCarapace: :OrganicCarapace: :OrganicCarapace:

Of course you'll be useless either way and probably wouldn't be targeted.

 

Another counter is just getting pure armor, to reduce his damage as you run. Teleports are effective but if you are silenced, it can be troubling.

 

Ok serious time: If you are a threat to shadow, causing him to ultra you every time he sees you get this item:

:BanditsArtifice: This will make him waste his final and he will have to take time to Taser//Ultra you to debate if you are the real deal or not. Of course it isn't an absolute counter.

Otherwise during team battles, you should be able to see him, especially with spawn, since you will normally have at least 1 unit out of his final

Death Mark//Drake's final are also a good counter :)

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You could try tanking it buy going:

:LifeTechNanosuit::OrganicCarapace: :OrganicCarapace: :OrganicCarapace: :OrganicCarapace: :OrganicCarapace:

Of course you'll be useless either way and probably wouldn't be targeted.

 

Another counter is just getting pure armor, to reduce his damage as you run. Teleports are effective but if you are silenced, it can be troubling.

 

Ok serious time: If you are a threat to shadow, causing him to ultra you every time he sees you get this item:

:BanditsArtifice: This will make him waste his final and he will have to take time to Taser//Ultra you to debate if you are the real deal or not. Of course it isn't an absolute counter.

Otherwise during team battles, you should be able to see him, especially with spawn, since you will normally have at least 1 unit out of his final

Death Mark//Drake's final are also a good counter :)

 

I don't think bandit's will help you at all against a properly built shadow. He can solo people without using his ult, so counting on winning 1v1 engagements regularly doesn't work unless you're fed, in which case shadow isn't even a problem anyway as he's a snowballer by design.

 

I'm just wondering if there is a way to do anything about it other than killing shadow right away, because there can be a LOT of people who need to be killed right away in teamfights.

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have one person or creep outside his ulti grants you vision, pop a shrapnel cloak and walk out of his ultie if your alone and focus him down. Shadow typically dies within the shrapnel cloaks duration as he cant leach off anything. The one thing you should never do is try and run away.

 

Shadows typically fairly easy to counter, as he lacks any innate hard CC and is usually pretty squishy.

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The state of balance as suggested by the concept of "carry = hero that takes whole team out by himself, even though is a balanced hero" means that the holy trinity is unbeatable and should not be beatable, except by each other (basically Boros is unbeatable, since he is the strongest of the 3, I.E. he can kill the other 2 in a 1v1 or 5v5 or whatever, 10 times out of 10, which is the only indicator of strength possible, since all 3 can solo 5 non-holy-trinity heroes with ease). That is why I've lately taken to just picking heroes with huge range, just to maybe kill the more dumb shadows before they get to me. Since the average Boros and Zera waste ults on one person, they are not really a problem, and neither would shadow be, if his ult didn't cover half the flobing map!

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The absolute counter is of course, shrapnel, because it`ll shut his aa`s without need to aim, and any enemies also caught in the blast. Electric is good too for the stun so he wastes time, takes damage and lets you run some more.

 

Your argue that shadow has a team. Well, I got news for you. YOU HAVE ONE TOO!!! If anyone can attack shadow with executioners axe and said shadow attacks a character that has barbed plating + life item shadow will auto die in like 4 seconds .

 

If you are alone and shadow has no detect you just throw a smoke bomb....you don`t need to actually SEE shadow to counter his ult. You don`t need to attack him to make him waste his ult. Just throw bomb and run away. Or lockbox yourself if you can`t target him. Or push yourself with dial. Or any of the above + dark steel titan(NOT MENTIONED SO FAR). DST is sooo underused. Sometimes stepping strikes will attack you and put shadow so far that the decrease of movement speed of DST will make shadow unable to catch you if you keep running. If this does not happen still it gives life and armor and life regen so it`s not a waste.

 

Still, what others said about scan is kind of the principle of countering shadow....if you can`t counter him....hang with someone who can. If only 1 player has a scan or shrap and everyone protects that player you are basically shadow armored. Beware shadow might waste ulti and feign a gank so the scan is wasted and not kill himself in the process but still then you have survived to fight another day and your team can get another scan.

 

If you for some reason want to ubber rape shadow 1v1 ONLY get barbed, axe, shadowmourne(if he gets on hit items), shrapnel, organic, FoE, electric mantle, heated mantle(if not shadowmourne)...what usually will happen is shadow throws ulti and you shrapnel the active, dealing spell damage and wasting his ult....you proceed to hit him, getting slow from foe and and eliminating his leech with axe....he then kills himself cause he cant outleech barbed plating and you have foe and organic(2 major life boosters). If he relies on the "on hit" items to kill you so to bypass the barbed plating barrier, then shadowmourne will give him that same pain PLUS he still gets no life and gets barbed plating reflection back on his face...on a game everyone quitted and I was alone vs shadow....AS QUEEN and still managed to get kills using this non intel build...he won anyways bypassing me and killing towers and masspushing lanes, but the point is, if you really want to counter aa carries you can with the right gear and playing smart...."but I`m an intel/agi/str char!!! I can`t get those items! not enough DPS!!!"---I call BS...If theres one char thats troubling you and you are feeding you MUST gearcounter said character....give it a try and tell us how it goes instead of saying it won`t work beforehand

 

good luck

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Buying scans. Thanks for making such interesting threads.

Well it is certainly better than getting raped with 6 slots and making threads cause you couldn't figure out that having one of your 5 players in the team sacrifice an item slot for the sake of the team is much better than getting raped.

Yes, surely your team having 29 items instead of 30 items is gonna lose you the game, that one item is surely more important than having vision during shadow ult. Jesus ur so flobing bad, and so flobing bad at arguing about strategy, keep diggin ur grave small son.

The rest did though, but I guess it's easy to ignore people pointing out the obvious. Why the flob do you make a thread to ask a question if you are not going to listen to the (obvious) answer ?

It's not debatable, ask every good player and they will give you the same answer, you are just mad cause you thought something was imbalanced when it wasn't (hence you posting this in balance debates rofmao lmao) and it turned out you are just bad and didn't know about most obvious counter. I won the tournament small son; so now sit down, or imma sit u down.

 

Sorry chob this is not Dota and ppl can't digest that one player could sacrifice a slot for a consumible item in the very late game

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The absolute counter is of course, shrapnel, because it`ll shut his aa`s without need to aim, and any enemies also caught in the blast. Electric is good too for the stun so he wastes time, takes damage and lets you run some more.

 

Your argue that shadow has a team. Well, I got news for you. YOU HAVE ONE TOO!!! If anyone can attack shadow with executioners axe and said shadow attacks a character that has barbed plating + life item shadow will auto die in like 4 seconds .

 

If you are alone and shadow has no detect you just throw a smoke bomb....you don`t need to actually SEE shadow to counter his ult. You don`t need to attack him to make him waste his ult. Just throw bomb and run away. Or lockbox yourself if you can`t target him. Or push yourself with dial. Or any of the above + dark steel titan(NOT MENTIONED SO FAR). DST is sooo underused. Sometimes stepping strikes will attack you and put shadow so far that the decrease of movement speed of DST will make shadow unable to catch you if you keep running. If this does not happen still it gives life and armor and life regen so it`s not a waste.

 

Still, what others said about scan is kind of the principle of countering shadow....if you can`t counter him....hang with someone who can. If only 1 player has a scan or shrap and everyone protects that player you are basically shadow armored. Beware shadow might waste ulti and feign a gank so the scan is wasted and not kill himself in the process but still then you have survived to fight another day and your team can get another scan.

 

If you for some reason want to ubber rape shadow 1v1 ONLY get barbed, axe, shadowmourne(if he gets on hit items), shrapnel, organic, FoE, electric mantle, heated mantle(if not shadowmourne)...what usually will happen is shadow throws ulti and you shrapnel the active, dealing spell damage and wasting his ult....you proceed to hit him, getting slow from foe and and eliminating his leech with axe....he then kills himself cause he cant outleech barbed plating and you have foe and organic(2 major life boosters). If he relies on the "on hit" items to kill you so to bypass the barbed plating barrier, then shadowmourne will give him that same pain PLUS he still gets no life and gets barbed plating reflection back on his face...on a game everyone quitted and I was alone vs shadow....AS QUEEN and still managed to get kills using this non intel build...he won anyways bypassing me and killing towers and masspushing lanes, but the point is, if you really want to counter aa carries you can with the right gear and playing smart...."but I`m an intel/agi/str char!!! I can`t get those items! not enough DPS!!!"---I call BS...If theres one char thats troubling you and you are feeding you MUST gearcounter said character....give it a try and tell us how it goes instead of saying it won`t work beforehand

 

good luck

 

This is actually a pretty good explanation of what you have to do in pubs when your team members arent too useful.

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The state of balance as suggested by the concept of "carry = hero that takes whole team out by himself, even though is a balanced hero" means that the holy trinity is unbeatable and should not be beatable, except by each other (basically Boros is unbeatable, since he is the strongest of the 3, I.E. he can kill the other 2 in a 1v1 or 5v5 or whatever, 10 times out of 10, which is the only indicator of strength possible, since all 3 can solo 5 non-holy-trinity heroes with ease). That is why I've lately taken to just picking heroes with huge range, just to maybe kill the more dumb shadows before they get to me. Since the average Boros and Zera waste ults on one person, they are not really a problem, and neither would shadow be, if his ult didn't cover half the flobing map!

 

Holy tirinity so wrong? Well for starters a decent shadow rapes a decent boros almost always. Boros relies on his omnislash to hit hard and not get hit back, his SS to negate spell dmg and debuffs. Boros omnis shadow, shadow vortexes himself omnislash is negated. Shadow proceeds to rape boros's face. Secondly, boros isn't all that strong these days in the first place. With the major increase in creeps, its much rarer to be totally alone and thus vulnerable to boro's omnislash, As fpr shadow, a 2600 mineral item utterly removes him from the equation, ontop of that nearly any burst caster can insta kill shadow before he can engage ie raynor, rancor, null ect. Ontop of this, Ranged AA carries are typically superior to their melee counterparts, match a nova and a shadow up, novas going to come out ahead more often than not because shadows half dead before he can reach her.

 

I'm not sure who the third member of your "holy trinity" is but your first two are pretty weak...

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Barb Plating, Executional Axe is what i use against a noob shadow and a scan if he use his ultimate. Now if you don't want a scan to take up a slot, use a Cloak Sharpnel to get some distance from you and his ultimate. Once you're out of his ultimate, commence the attack on him. Of course there's other ways to counter barb and axe.

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The absolute counter is of course, shrapnel, because it`ll shut his aa`s without need to aim, and any enemies also caught in the blast. Electric is good too for the stun so he wastes time, takes damage and lets you run some more.

 

Your argue that shadow has a team. Well, I got news for you. YOU HAVE ONE TOO!!! If anyone can attack shadow with executioners axe and said shadow attacks a character that has barbed plating + life item shadow will auto die in like 4 seconds .

 

If you are alone and shadow has no detect you just throw a smoke bomb....you don`t need to actually SEE shadow to counter his ult. You don`t need to attack him to make him waste his ult. Just throw bomb and run away. Or lockbox yourself if you can`t target him. Or push yourself with dial. Or any of the above + dark steel titan(NOT MENTIONED SO FAR). DST is sooo underused. Sometimes stepping strikes will attack you and put shadow so far that the decrease of movement speed of DST will make shadow unable to catch you if you keep running. If this does not happen still it gives life and armor and life regen so it`s not a waste.

 

Still, what others said about scan is kind of the principle of countering shadow....if you can`t counter him....hang with someone who can. If only 1 player has a scan or shrap and everyone protects that player you are basically shadow armored. Beware shadow might waste ulti and feign a gank so the scan is wasted and not kill himself in the process but still then you have survived to fight another day and your team can get another scan.

 

If you for some reason want to ubber rape shadow 1v1 ONLY get barbed, axe, shadowmourne(if he gets on hit items), shrapnel, organic, FoE, electric mantle, heated mantle(if not shadowmourne)...what usually will happen is shadow throws ulti and you shrapnel the active, dealing spell damage and wasting his ult....you proceed to hit him, getting slow from foe and and eliminating his leech with axe....he then kills himself cause he cant outleech barbed plating and you have foe and organic(2 major life boosters). If he relies on the "on hit" items to kill you so to bypass the barbed plating barrier, then shadowmourne will give him that same pain PLUS he still gets no life and gets barbed plating reflection back on his face...on a game everyone quitted and I was alone vs shadow....AS QUEEN and still managed to get kills using this non intel build...he won anyways bypassing me and killing towers and masspushing lanes, but the point is, if you really want to counter aa carries you can with the right gear and playing smart...."but I`m an intel/agi/str char!!! I can`t get those items! not enough DPS!!!"---I call BS...If theres one char thats troubling you and you are feeding you MUST gearcounter said character....give it a try and tell us how it goes instead of saying it won`t work beforehand

 

good luck

 

Yah this is pretty much what I would say. Your only two options are keeping your distance and stunning/focus firing him to death with your team, or else get full anti-AA gear with a decent amount of spell resist because pyre will kill you pretty fast without it. Since in pub games most people are all about CYA (cover your ass), it usually makes sense to use a build that focuses more on tanking his damage and stunning/disabling him with electric mantle and shrapnel cloak which is what I usually do. For instance my MAAR build has shrapnel, barbed, electric mantle, and axe if the enemy AA heroes have a significant amount of lifesteal in their builds (otherwise it is usually carapace). The other two items are of course superheated and nitrogen refit for other reasons even though they both add health and superheated adds armor. I almost never have problems with AA heroes 1v1 if I can get full gear against their full gear, but the point is more as a support hero to have that gear to save your own allies who use retarded squishy builds and without being able to nullify shadow with shrapnel and position yourself to take the damage from them, your whole team will end up dying one by one until you are the last one standing against Shadow and the rest of his team. Late game since I usually prefer tank builds on any hero I am telling my team that whatever they do when they push, just stay behind me because I know how to shut down AA carries and actually have farmed the gear necessary to counter them. I have had noobs playing an AA hero like Cain or Kerrigan in games where they get ridiculous numbers of kills and repeated monster kills simply by them attack moving and me doing everything in my power to keep them from getting focus fired and then the other team wonders why they just lost a 2v5.

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Holy tirinity so wrong? Well for starters a decent shadow rapes a decent boros almost always. Boros relies on his omnislash to hit hard and not get hit back, his SS to negate spell dmg and debuffs. Boros omnis shadow, shadow vortexes himself omnislash is negated. Shadow proceeds to rape boros's face. Secondly, boros isn't all that strong these days in the first place. With the major increase in creeps, its much rarer to be totally alone and thus vulnerable to boro's omnislash, As fpr shadow, a 2600 mineral item utterly removes him from the equation, ontop of that nearly any burst caster can insta kill shadow before he can engage ie raynor, rancor, null ect. Ontop of this, Ranged AA carries are typically superior to their melee counterparts, match a nova and a shadow up, novas going to come out ahead more often than not because shadows half dead before he can reach her.

 

I'm not sure who the third member of your "holy trinity" is but your first two are pretty weak...

 

They are referring to "Shadow, Boros and Crackling" who are all very easy to kill. However, Boros' omnislash still hits in vortex even though it shows boros being sucked into the vortex.

 

@OP

 

Anyone on your team heroes or creeps outside the ult can provide vision in it. So teamwork counters it :)

 

@Holy Trinity bullshap

 

Nova rapes all 3 GG.

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