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The new map, and how it may affect character mobility.


HotGuyCalvin
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After much beta testing, the new map was released last week with very significant changes to texture, graphics, and even size. The size of the map is marginally larger than the previous maps. This change to the map size has relative changes to the way heroes are now played, the items that will be used, the talents that are organized for character mobility.

 

Some of the points I want to raise, and these are more speculative is:

- Will there be an increased emphasis for players to get 13% movement speed in the defensive tree instead of 7%?

- With the increase of the map size, are there different engagements happening on the map? If so, where?

- Are there new choke-points and strategic areas within the map such as narrow passages, high-ground versus low-ground now with the subsequent changes to the map?

- Does this affect character mobility? And does this new map greatly affect character abilities when considering movement?

 

I have experienced with this new map some new areas of engagement, and some very different uses for abilities with respect to movement. I also find that some movement abilities have drifted in the scope of a new environment that is now in effect. So I raise another point, which is with the larger and more open map environment, should character abilities be re-worked for distance, etc?

 

There are various examples of character abilities based on movement that seem to be affected by the new map:

- Alpha Crackling R (great advantages from the new map to chase heroes)

-Leo (great advantages with the side lanes, mid lanes, especially in linear areas where he can catch heroes)

- Vagabond Darpa Desperado jump (jump in old version is more narrower of an environment, but now, it seems that the spacing and distance requires darpa to jump more often, or travel further to jump of a cliff)

- Nova ( possible changes to the timing of Nova's cloak ability, with the larger map, does Nova have to get closer in for ganks before engaging with cloak?)

- Drake/Boros pulls ( with the range of their projectile of tenticle and bola, does the larger more open area map make it more difficult to accurately aim and successfully pull the target?)

- Kerrigan ( does she suffer in movement mobility (with disregard to any movement talents or items)?)

-General character mobility - Is there a greater opportunity cost now that ganking takes more time and distance for a gank, putting the opportunity cost on towers.

- Shadow ( has more distance to engage the enemy before the enemy runs back to towers, giving his ability passive, greater utility)

- Starscream ( increased mobility throughout the map in flight mode)

-Cloaked/burrowed heroes rancor, unix, biotron, etc. - have more ganking advantages from trees, bushes, map foliage)

 

There are many other character points, but I am interested in hearing from the community about their views of the new maps and if game mechanics do change with how the map has changed as well. With the points I have above, do you feel that the characters require distance changes? Or is this a rise in new character mechanics from the inception of a new map? Or is there no significant change to map size? And character mobility is not influenced? I look forward to reading your responses, and thank you for taking the time to read my topic.

 

Thanks!

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After much beta testing, the new map was released last week with very significant changes to texture, graphics, and even size. The size of the map is marginally larger than the previous maps. This change to the map size has relative changes to the way heroes are now played, the items that will be used, the talents that are organized for character mobility.

 

Some of the points I want to raise, and these are more speculative is:

- Will there be an increased emphasis for players to get 13% movement speed in the defensive tree instead of 7%?

- With the increase of the map size, are there different engagements happening on the map? If so, where?

- Are there new choke-points and strategic areas within the map such as narrow passages, high-ground versus low-ground now with the subsequent changes to the map?

- Does this affect character mobility? And does this new map greatly affect character abilities when considering movement?

 

I have experienced with this new map some new areas of engagement, and some very different uses for abilities with respect to movement. I also find that some movement abilities have drifted in the scope of a new environment that is now in effect. So I raise another point, which is with the larger and more open map environment, should character abilities be re-worked for distance, etc?

 

There are various examples of character abilities based on movement that seem to be affected by the new map:

- Alpha Crackling R (great advantages from the new map to chase heroes)

-Leo (great advantages with the side lanes, mid lanes, especially in linear areas where he can catch heroes)

- Vagabond Darpa Desperado jump (jump in old version is more narrower of an environment, but now, it seems that the spacing and distance requires darpa to jump more often, or travel further to jump of a cliff)

- Nova ( possible changes to the timing of Nova's cloak ability, with the larger map, does Nova have to get closer in for ganks before engaging with cloak?)

- Drake/Boros pulls ( with the range of their projectile of tenticle and bola, does the larger more open area map make it more difficult to accurately aim and successfully pull the target?)

- Kerrigan ( does she suffer in movement mobility (with disregard to any movement talents or items)?)

-General character mobility - Is there a greater opportunity cost now that ganking takes more time and distance for a gank, putting the opportunity cost on towers.

- Shadow ( has more distance to engage the enemy before the enemy runs back to towers, giving his ability passive, greater utility)

- Starscream ( increased mobility throughout the map in flight mode)

-Cloaked/burrowed heroes rancor, unix, biotron, etc. - have more ganking advantages from trees, bushes, map foliage)

 

There are many other character points, but I am interested in hearing from the community about their views of the new maps and if game mechanics do change with how the map has changed as well. With the points I have above, do you feel that the characters require distance changes? Or is this a rise in new character mechanics from the inception of a new map? Or is there no significant change to map size? And character mobility is not influenced? I look forward to reading your responses, and thank you for taking the time to read my topic.

 

Thanks!

 

put your team togeather and play us some time

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To be Honest i didn't even notice that the map was bigger.

 

Yah not much of a change if you ask me. And who cares about speed in the side lanes as it is usually best to let one person solo the long lane and tower hug and have the other person jungle most of the time and only show up to defend if they add another person for pushing the tower. A lot of creeps get denied but not so many that you fall behind relative to the two heroes you are laning against.

 

Also, the talent build I use all of the time has transport in it so if a tower is getting pushed I can stop jungling and get back to defend whenever the other team decides to push it as much of the time if they have a cheesy hero combination like Rory/Micro in the long lane they will let the creeps push back to their tower and hope you come down to get ganked. I don't even have as much of a problem with cheesy hero combinations when laning anymore due to the new creep mechanics because it gives you a strategic option to cede the lane to them without falling too far behind, whereas before if you hugged the tower they would just deny everything and the creep lanes would never push close enough for you to get any income (i.e. you were screwed if you tried to lane and you were screwed if you tower hugged). For this reason alone, I really like the new creep mechanics even though I was highly suspect of them at first as it perhaps unintentionally addressed the cheesy hero laning combination problem in a very good way.

 

Last but not least, for the defensive talent build I have yet never use cause I prefer using my 2 defense, 4 utility build with transport, I have both swiftness and zeal which really lets you zoom around early game (20% increased movement speed). I would probably use this on most heroes if not for how important I feel transport is relative to all other builds.

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Try to keep the discussion based on character mobility and whether the map has changed these elements.

 

obv it has, the 5.0 map was way way smaller this this map making the map so much bigger slows down the game pace and makes heroes with mobile issues so much worse like kerry

 

but the devs have done much to fix this, they made the creeps faster and spawn more often to promote faster game play due to more things to kill, they have great speed talents, and a port talent, its a choice,

 

you sacrifice damage and defense for the speed talents / port , or stay slow and be extra tanky or deal a crap load of damage, they even threw you a bone by giving haste in the offensive tree so u can still get some mobility when your going for a damage build

 

map is fine

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obv it has, the 5.0 map was way way smaller this this map making the map so much bigger slows down the game pace and makes heroes with mobile issues so much worse like kerry

 

but the devs have done much to fix this, they made the creeps faster and spawn more often to promote faster game play due to more things to kill, they have great speed talents, and a port talent, its a choice,

 

you sacrifice damage and defense for the speed talents / port , or stay slow and be extra tanky or deal a crap load of damage, they even threw you a bone by giving haste in the offensive tree so u can still get some mobility when your going for a damage build

 

map is fine

 

I'm not saying that there is something wrong with the map, but how it changes hero mechanics. Does the hero mechanics change with the subsequent changes of the map RELATIVE TO MOVEMENT?

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Meh.... in an average pub game it doesn't matter, in an IH I always play support/tank (since apart from Boros and ling, cheesy heroes that I vowed to never play are usually allowed, so the somewhat weaker aa heroes that I do play are outclassed) which means that I'm probably using a talent build that has both m.s. increases, so I'm moving really fast and it doesn't bother me. The thing is, you will be turtling almost every time you are behind, with maybe a few guerrilla tactics involving return, so you would wait for the enemy to come to you. if you are ahead, you can afford to get mobility items, huge amounts of wards, etc, to retain map control and dominance.

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Last but not least, for the defensive talent build I have yet never use cause I prefer using my 2 defense, 4 utility build with transport, I have both swiftness and zeal which really lets you zoom around early game (20% increased movement speed). I would probably use this on most heroes if not for how important I feel transport is relative to all other builds.

 

Are you sure you can get transport talent and swiftness and zeal?

I thought that zeal was a level 2 talent that required 2 points in defense before you could put it into zeal, which doesnt leave you enough for the transport talent.

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Are you sure you can get transport talent and swiftness and zeal?

I thought that zeal was a level 2 talent that required 2 points in defense before you could put it into zeal, which doesnt leave you enough for the transport talent.

 

Yes you can, both zeal and transport require 2 points in their respective three :P

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That's only if you play against baddies.

 

No that is simply how the creep mechanics work now. Lanes get pushed on their own if you don't push back. And if the other team does not push at all, you can both just farm neutrals or have another guy go to another lane and leave the lane undefended which is what I usually do these days with a dropper if I am soloing the long lane. I will just jungle neutrals until they start actively pushing the lane and then use transport to defend the tower. I can be on the other side of the map and still keep the tower in good shape if need be. Before the new creep mechanics, you are right that you could not just let the other team deny everything because the relative value of lane creeps to neutrals and the fact creeps had a spawning period of 25 seconds longer meant that you would level and gain income extremely slowly while letting the enemy team farm all the neutrals because there was so much down time between creep waves to do that.

 

On another note, I have no idea who you are or if I have ever played against you, but you sound like a petulant child with these kind of comments.

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Are you sure you can get transport talent and swiftness and zeal?

I thought that zeal was a level 2 talent that required 2 points in defense before you could put it into zeal, which doesnt leave you enough for the transport talent.

 

Maybe I was not clear. I have one build which I don't really use that has zeal and swiftness, and the standard build I have just has swiftness and transport.

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No that is simply how the creep mechanics work now. Lanes get pushed on their own if you don't push back. And if the other team does not push at all, you can both just farm neutrals or have another guy go to another lane and leave the lane undefended which is what I usually do these days with a dropper if I am soloing the long lane. I will just jungle neutrals until they start actively pushing the lane and then use transport to defend the tower.

 

Yes it is possible, they will not push at all and you won't get any creeps, which will force you to dual jungle and there isn't enough creeps to dual jungle, which makes your team lose xp compared to the other team.

 

On another note, I have no idea who you are or if I have ever played against you, but you sound like a petulant child with these kind of comments.

 

I think I have an idea why. The reason is that you never play competitive games, thus the only experience of the game you have is playing against pubs which will include first timers and where there is no team coordianation whatsoever. The direct consequence of this is that you can get away with plays that would be bad if you played against a competent team, and you don't realize it cause you actually never do, and the consequence is that you give advice that is just plain bad (it's not really your fault, one can only be so good when he only plays against baddies). I know it probably makes you frustrated but it is just the case, pubbers have objectively a worse understanding of the game that people who play this game competitively, simple evidence of this is that pubstars stacks just lose to inhousers in organized matches, whatever the rules are (bans or not, etc).

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The map awareness is way more important than Sotis 5.0 since the map is way larger and teleporter is removed.

 

Back to the old days, if enemy team is pushing top, you'll still able to catch them if you're mid or you have a teleporter on hand.

 

The current size of the map makes the team fight more important than ever and the location in which you engage enemy is also important.

 

With the newly defined high ground and bushes, it is very important to ward as much as possible for best map control and better vision when engaged in a team fight.

 

The walkable space is also better defined compare to previous patch. Generally speaking, the lighten area is walkable area.

 

There are many minor changes that can only be experienced via lots of real games and the best way to discover them is to play the game.

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