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Weapon speed


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I have a few questions

 

Is weapon speed too easy to get?

Should the weapon speed for agi stay at 0.3% or should it be lower?

What was the reason for the increase to 400% speed a few weeks ago?

 

 

Please discuss

 

1- meh for agi heros maybe but as far as str heros i think its just fine.

2- i herd from somewhere that that is as low as the editor will allow RNG to make it =/

3- because of #2 he couldnt reduce the weapon speed gained from items as it would hurt non-agi heros too much. He wanted it to take more to reach the cap so that people would have to get attack speed items instead of straight dmg items.

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So why could he not buff amount of A.S. bonuses, armor bonuses from AGI, then vastly reduce the amount of agility you could get, both from items and from leveling? Oh and you'd have to buff zera's % agi, since he wouldn't be dealing as much from backstabs with lower amount of agi.

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AGI gives a lot of weapon speed when you have large amounts of it. Even Tassadar (who has mostly even AGI and INT) only needs one or two weapon speed item plus his shield to max out on weapon speed.

 

It's really the fact that AGI grants a 1.004^AGI weapon speed multiplier, so if you have around 250 AGI that's already 150% weapon speed.

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The main problem is that Attack Speed bonuses stack exponentially so no matter how low you make them, they will always spiral out of control. Your choice is to either make it low enough at the beginning that the end-point is manageable (marginalizes early Agi bonuses) or make it high enough that early bonuses aren't marginalized (makes late bonuses OP). Last time I tested, your Agi bonus is 1.0029agi so 250 Agi gives you a 106% bonus to APS. That's still a sizable amount, doubling your APS for an easily reachable benchmark.

 

I think the solution is something round-about. If you look at your movement speed, you'll notice that all heroes get a 0.4 bonus to their base speed. This bonus is not affected by move-speed buffs nor debuffs. It gives an early bonus but it doesn't interact with buffs later. If that same kind of bonus were applied to Attack Speed, that could cover the early game so that you can make the Agi benefit to APS low enough so it doesn't spiral so greatly while not adversely affecting early game attack rates.

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Midknight, the 1.5 patch added an option to use additive multipliers for movespeed and weapon speed, so there is a solution. I already use it in whatever maps I still make.

 

Basically, the multiplier starts at 100% and it stacks additively, so for example a 50% weapon speed boost and a 30% weapon speed debuff would result in 20% weapon speed. Two 20% boosts result in 40%, etc.

 

This means you could have AGI give an additive value in order to normalize the gains at the early and mid game.

 

Ekco should use it imo.

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The main problem is that Attack Speed bonuses stack exponentially so no matter how low you make them, they will always spiral out of control. Your choice is to either make it low enough at the beginning that the end-point is manageable (marginalizes early Agi bonuses) or make it high enough that early bonuses aren't marginalized (makes late bonuses OP). Last time I tested, your Agi bonus is 1.0029agi so 250 Agi gives you a 106% bonus to APS. That's still a sizable amount, doubling your APS for an easily reachable benchmark.

 

I think the solution is something round-about. If you look at your movement speed, you'll notice that all heroes get a 0.4 bonus to their base speed. This bonus is not affected by move-speed buffs nor debuffs. It gives an early bonus but it doesn't interact with buffs later. If that same kind of bonus were applied to Attack Speed, that could cover the early game so that you can make the Agi benefit to APS low enough so it doesn't spiral so greatly while not adversely affecting early game attack rates.

 

Ahh I get it now, I was always wondering why when I added up my weapon speed % it didnt =400% yet I was at max weapon speed. I always thought it was added up instead of multiplied, no wonder why weapon speed goes out of control.

 

I agree with ninja it should be added up instead of how it is now

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The real problem isn't the late game weapon speed that AGI heroes get lategame. The problem is that the game is just too hard to end at the moment. For example it happens really often to get ahead with INT heroes and not manage to end the game even though you are mega ahead of enemy team (basically it requires the full team to play together, which rarely happens in pubs), and then AGI heroes catch up and win the game.

 

2 different solutions to change this in my opinion :

- make it easier to push the base, either by redesigning it, changing towers or the geometry of the base (which is on ecko's agenda apparently), or by giving a bigger reward for destroying barracks (make it push harder especially)

- make it harder to farm up to full items, I personnally find it ridiculous that if you farm for 40 minutes, even if you are getting picked off all the time you are still full items. Ways to change this would be to make killing people give more money in comparison to farming (or make farming give less money), or changing the fact that you don't lose money when you die. edit : also I don't know if it is still the case but creeps giving more money as the game progresses is also one of the factors contributing to this problem and it is immensely retarded

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