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Why is Tosh's Stun AoE? (1.55)


FruitNinja
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I'm just wondering, because from what I hear he is considered a very good 1v1 hero.

 

So why is it that his stuns have a large AoE? If you have more than one melee hero on your team and have proper focusing, you're going to have multiple people in range of each other that can be stunned together.

 

Tosh can build tanky and still destroy people and tanks in seconds. I'm not sure why he needs an AoE stun that adds up to, what, 2.4 seconds? With a super-long range? Since he's tanky you can't really focus him without the rest of their team destroying yours. I think this is a little much, considering that every other carry in the game is item-dependent and susceptible to burst. What are you supposed to do about a hyper-carry that's impossible to kill realistically?

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The amount of stuns he can build up to is 4.2 seconds (0.8X4 from spectres, +1 second from [Q] ability). Not including if he gets Stun baton. His stuns basicly cost no mana, are AoE. Since they are chain stuns, most of the time, the enemy will not be able to use anything for about 0.1 - 0.2 seconds after the stun too. Also since each spectre has a stun but don't share a CD, while the spectre's stuns can kinda act like a Charge, each charge has its own CD.

(i.e. Vergil's [Q] ability has a 10 second CD and 3 charges, but only recharges 1 per 10 seconds. Tosh's Spectres, using all their charges, they all will gain a charge. Meaning that you will gain back all 4 or your charges in 25 seconds. His spectres are now super difficult to kill, only killable with a heavy duty AoE attack, and are much easier to get back on the account on the more frequent spawn waves.

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Yeah, I don't know either. I mean now Spectres have too much health... =X They have stun and plenty of health but less damage than other spawns.

One IH I saw Tosh's 4 Spectres push down from the [dead] T1 area to the [Alive] T2 tower in the top lane E_E"

So the Cow came in and cleared them, but they didn't even die to an INT-Cow Q. =X

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Yeah, I don't know either. I mean now Spectres have too much health... =X They have stun and plenty of health but less damage than other spawns.

One IH I saw Tosh's 4 Spectres push down from the [dead] T1 area to the [Alive] T2 tower in the top lane E_E"

So the Cow came in and cleared them, but they didn't even die to an INT-Cow Q. =X

 

Yeah, originally he took a lot of micromanagement to protect his spectres, but now he can keep them with him and they will still survive.

 

@Chimera the stuns have a radius of about a psi storm from vanilla sc2.

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.... his stuns were buffed?

His stuns use to be at 0.4. Back when all the Stats you gain were around 2000, chronosphere stopped time by 99% and maar had firewall. (Tosh had a better Q tho then, where you would get a debuff causing you to be stunned for 0.6 seconds every 2 seconds for 8 seconds, and also did like 300 spell damage. The Q was op but the spectres weren't as op.

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Psi Storm has a 3.5 unit radius iirc

Tosh's Spectre's Stun has a 1.5 unit radius or so, which still makes it broken.. =X

 

I thought it was a 2 unit radius on both. Psi storm isn't that big.

 

Either way, you get stunned even if you intersect the circle, and it's not really dodgeable.

 

EDIT: Psi Storm has a 1.5 unit radius... I checked it in the editor.

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Tosh ulti going to be changed probably from max attack speed into +X% attack speed. So there going to be other counters to him, like Chilling Artifact. Anyway please don't change stun power of Tosh. Don't make game even more easy. I mean there is so low number of disables in AoS. Instead removing them add new ones with new heroes.

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He's getting changed next patch as spooky mentioned.

Besides if you want to kill him without any form of aoe your just stupid. If your team has a Int rancor he can just nuke the spectres and tosh is alot less strong.

I agree the HP scaling on spectres is maybe a little to good, but the stun is perfectly legit imo.

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He's getting changed next patch as spooky mentioned.

Besides if you want to kill him without any form of aoe your just stupid. If your team has a Int rancor he can just nuke the spectres and tosh is alot less strong.

I agree the HP scaling on spectres is maybe a little to good, but the stun is perfectly legit imo.

 

The stun would be legit if Tosh wasn't also a monster DPS carry without very many items in the first place. Since pyre was buffed it's all he needs to kill anything.

 

The nerf should be enough, but in his current state he gives good CC and damage with only a pyre and Spectres, allowing him to build tanky. For melee heroes like Tassadar or Balrog it is extremely difficult to get into range to kill the spectres then get out. I don't mean it's hard... I mean it's impossible without literally faceplanting into the enemy team, giving a huge advantage to the Tosh player because the stun has such a long range. You have to have long-ranged AoE but even then a smart Tosh can spread his spectres out and just remake them next time a wave comes by.

 

Tosh just has to be item-dependent, which is all I ask.

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