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Garamond's abilites to kill.


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I have noticed that garamond was being very under used, i had played about 200 games and seen him 3 times. Nobody went positive as they were playing him. So i finally decided to try him and in order for you to deal decent damage early game is to spam attack damage. But since most of his damage is signifigantly reduced, you have to get lots of it. It is nearly impossible to kill a shadow early game when he has 15 armour when all of your scvs deal 15 damage each, most of the time it tickles because of his leech. You try seeker missile, and he dodges it. You try slow and he just vortex's until its done. You try slow then seeker and he just uses his

"q". The towers and kind of a joke because they deal like 30 damage a second each and die when he sneezes on them. Maybe if the scvs dealt true damage to avoid armour abuse? So when its late game you might have 200 damage? Since you are int you are getting your int stuff to deal extra damage with your abilities your wep damage isnt very high of a focus, so you wont have as much damage as you could. As far as i know, the scvs cant deal crits, so you cant get extra damage there. Your not going to be attacking at a good speed so good luck getting enough of them out there to deal with people like nova, shadow, or drake. Drake can kill the scvs without even trying. Late game most people have some sort of aoe, so they get destroyed before doing much damage. Lets say you manage to get 5 scvs out with 200 damage, ( this implying you lived that long) you would be dealing 1000 damage a sec, but they will probably have some damage resistance so you deal about 750 damage a sec. Other people can deal about 1800 damage a sec and not very hard either. Most of the time unless they are pounding at your towers you will never get enough time to get 5 scvs on them and they will most likely just kill them. So basically you die way too easily, and at towers people will just dive to kill you easily, and you wont have enough time to get your scvs out or abilities. Most of the time in pubs, teams are idiots and will watch you die. So unless you give more range to his basic attack, or you make an entire new basic attack and have the scvs be like a heroic passive, then garamond is still kinda useless. I searched for ways to use him and they say "lockbox and 20 other actions in 3 secs" which is very difficult, and this is just one char while defending a base, so chances are they are fed enough to live this hit.

 

So is garamond UP or is it just his unique play style?

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IMO Garamond and Tass are in the same boat. Both Heros can be played v nicely and be very effective as we saw in the tournament. However they require far to much skill compared to every other hero in the game. A skilled gara will still do worse in a pub then an average poor shadow. I think that they are UP because they are so difficult to play. But that's just an opinion.

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Garamond players use lockbox to position victims into an Oil spill, seeker missile stunlock. Meanwhile they are mounting massive amounts of SCV's to use their Ult. This combo tends to do massive AOE damage and can easily kill squishies in one go.

 

Trying to go auto attack Garamond can hardly be called the greatest way.

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Most people don't play Garamond correctly, and he requires much more skill than others.

Note: Gara's scvs deal more damage than a standard attack as long as you can get all the attacks in.

Scvs can get about 5 hits on a sitting target (175% weapon damage [Note: Gara's weapon damage is set to 35% so it is not his actual weap damage.]. Also when he gets a successful attack down, he deals 35% weapon damage to. If you get a successful hit down, you can deal 70% weap off the bat. Also you say that enemies with armor make SCVS tickle. Well, armor reduces all units physical damage by the same % amount. Before these talents, Gara would be unpowered vs tanks with the talent "Impunity" (Reduce all incoming attacks by 10) rendering gara nearly useless vs tanks. I find him much better at harassment and landing then others

The build i like to go is:

E, W, W, Q, W, R, W, Q, Q, Q, R, E, E, Stats, Stats, R, Stats, E. (Note that gara's Turrets gain missiles at lv 3, not lv 4 hence i don't get them till last level since they are basicly already at full power, or nearly).

Items:

1) Lockbox (Definately Need it, total destroys squishys, once you get Final Level 2, you can start killing more standard units instead of only squishys.)

2) Argus, (Major boost of damage)

3) Gravity Edge (Stop Spell resistance and natural resistance, and easier to creep)

4) Ihan crystal (For some hp and also to gain stats)

5) Yamato Reactor (Timescale and massive amplify spell damage)

6) Nitrogen Retroit (Hp, more slow, and decent Int)

7) Remove Ihan and get a 6th item needed. (Argus if you need more damage// Oraganics to survive enemy attacks long enough to get combo down)

 

Combo: Like Professor T [my hotkey for lockbox] Then spam: R Q W

By the end of lockbox, you scvs have 2 secs till detenation, enemy is slowed 60%, and seeker missiles will stun for 1.75 seconds within about 0.5 seconds, giving the enemy the only chance is to basicly teleport, or use an ability in the very narrow time frame.

I would like his passive not to scale with timescale tho since you can't really get it anymore (besides passive). Altho blizzard mechanics make it hard to change (Like broodlord doesn't follow Attack Speed.)

 

Note: SCVS do not proc gara's items, but his base attack does: (AKA: throwing the scv on the unit does)[or shud].

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Itsthat guy is a nice post but I just spend 1 point Q at 4 until last levels. I maximize first W then E lately stats and finally Q.

 

Items are ok, anyway I don't get Nitrogen retrofit I prefer some tanky item like Shrapnel or Electric Mantle. Since W is stunning and killer with combo ( dead units can't run) and Q don't add any slow since it is not a damaging spell. But there are some scenarios where it could be useful.

 

Same for combo Lockbox. I just use Q in few cases where it is necessary ( Greatly escape mechanism from enemy) Other way just LB-W-R ( What you should for killing any non tanky hero).

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Gara is balanced, just fix his AS.

PS: scvs can crit

Wait, so if I go for Crit Damage, could he be like Balrog, getting the double Crit chance with his attack? (Except with Garamond, its like 6x)

Also, regarding Crit. Balrog, I actually think I found this out. I started playing him this way, and when I next got on suddenly everyone went like that.

I'm going to try that :)

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Wait, so if I go for Crit Damage, could he be like Balrog, getting the double Crit chance with his attack? (Except with Garamond, its like 6x)

Also, regarding Crit. Balrog, I actually think I found this out. I started playing him this way, and when I next got on suddenly everyone went like that.

I'm going to try that :)

I don't think it works that way. Damage procs only the throw of the SCV. Otherwise, pyre would be to godly with gara since Crits work in a similar way.

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Attack speed needs fixing. Timescale doesn't cut it any more. Everything else is fine, IMO. His main form of income is just blowing up entire lanes with missiles and ult (cooldown short enough to use it on waves). This way he can get ahead, or at least stay on par with other heroes. Oh and ult duration is too long. Needs to be shorter, so the scvs blow up instantly, because as is, even with good lockbox and missile combo, the enemy can still get away with a blink/other skill before the scvs blow up.

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Attack speed needs fixing. Timescale doesn't cut it any more. Everything else is fine, IMO. His main form of income is just blowing up entire lanes with missiles and ult (cooldown short enough to use it on waves). This way he can get ahead, or at least stay on par with other heroes. Oh and ult duration is too long. Needs to be shorter, so the scvs blow up instantly, because as is, even with good lockbox and missile combo, the enemy can still get away with a blink/other skill before the scvs blow up.

many abilities are escapable with blink.

Also with the lockbox combo, blink or debuff immunity with speed (or spell storm) nearly only way to escape. Many other abilities are escapable with blink and other abilities too. it be op if it was undodgeable. (even boro's final is dodgeable with lockbox).

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One thing I'd like to see is that Gara has a level-upable passive (similar to final) that gives SCV spell resistance (since late game any AoE destroys them).

Maybe if you have final it grants spell resist depending on final

(i.e.) Kill Command also grants a passive:

Scvs have 20//35//50% Spell Resistance for first 3 seconds. (Buff is removed during Kill Command)

Of course 50% Spell resistance may seem like alot, but scvs don't have alot of hp [255 at max lv], and a Gravity's Edge would easily cut threw this [Reducing resistance from damage to about 32.5%] and still fairly easy to kill an scv, but standard low AoE won't insta kill scvs, especially spamable ones.

Makes it still easy to kill scvs and manage them, but the ones just created are harder to kill.

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Garamond players use lockbox to position victims into an Oil spill, seeker missile stunlock. Meanwhile they are mounting massive amounts of SCV's to use their Ult. This combo tends to do massive AOE damage and can easily kill squishies in one go.

 

Trying to go auto attack Garamond can hardly be called the greatest way.

 

Yah if you go int Garamond, then if you don't get a lockbox you are obviously doing something wrong.

 

I build him a lot different though in what I call barrel roll garamond in that I build him very tanky and use a small hadron to barrel roll into the enemy team where I fire off my rockets, slick, and ult at melee range.

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Yah if you go int Garamond, then if you don't get a lockbox you are obviously doing something wrong.

 

I build him a lot different though in what I call barrel roll garamond in that I build him very tanky and use a small hadron to barrel roll into the enemy team where I fire off my rockets, slick, and ult at melee range.

 

I really like how you are able to create these unconventional builds that are quite effective. I even take some of your ideas and use them

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Gara could use a few tweaks

 

1) his passive is all screwed up (his attack speed still tries to scale off old timescale which no longer exists) and thus his attack speed is broken, and he has no way to increase it

2) he really needs a hotkey for his scvs

3) his turrets could use a health buff at lvls 3 and 4, late game they are too easy to one shot. They should a also probably get some spell resistance 50-100%

 

 

That aside he is a very hard hero to use but he is also quite strong

Check out any of the replays Rakura uploads, he usually goes like 20 - 5 or something crazy like that using LB

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