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Item and Character changes


PhoenixRajoNight
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Ok, just going to state my opinion on some of the item changes.

 

Shadowmourne- was great for tanks against dps, it evened some things out. Now its not that great for a tank to grab at all and it cost more, meaning dps's are really the only ones grabbing them, which for ranged dps like nova is still rediculous. It now only helps dps, and only takes up a not so useful slot for tanks.

 

Cerebro- Really? I mean just really? Instead of tweaking it by say reduce by 1 sec 1 time per sec, you change it to a completely useless item. 10 and 9? WTH is that? it procs on a crit hit(which if your item specing for crit 80-100% you should get almost every hit benefiting u not every 20th, which for someone going crit, now with the double nerf of base crit dam and on kahli is really dumb.

 

Agressors Guise- You remove the movement speed, which was really the only reason to buy this item before with the other stats. This item is now pretty useless as well.

 

Nova- Now completely op again, most heroes when they attack another hero get hit by creeps, nova does not, along with some of the other ranging heroes, while other ranging units do. The change in creep wave speed has caused her to be op again, while heroes like boros have gotten nerfed by it.

 

Lord Z- Still an all around horrible character. He used to be very good, now he is nothing like what he used to be at all. I think we need a mix between the old and the new. Shields as an ulti is a joke.

 

On a whole, I think we need to focus more on buffing the bad characters than nerfing the good ones. If you nerf a hero, all u accomplish is another 1 to rise into the top OP slot. Buffing the crappy characters, like Lord Z would get players to try the old chars again.

 

I for one, am tired of having to play certain chars in pub games, because if I dont pick one of the top op chars ima just get stomped the whole game because everyone else is playing op chars. You have a few chars that dont really have a counter besides maybe 1-2 chars that can usually be recountered with certain item builds, while other chars are countered by every op char and their normal 1-2 chars.

 

Not trying to complain, but just suggesting that maybe we change the scope of balancing from nerfing good chars to buffing bad ones and add or change bad items to counter good ones. If you nerf person A's char because person B's char is crap, person A and B now have crappy chars that C trolls now.

 

Oh and for those that think that nova doesnt need to be dealt with, cuz she alrdy got a nerf. Boros has been nerfed every patch as of late, All 3 of the spells got nerfed, more creeps makes it harder to get omni off, item changes and now crit changes. But Like I said I believe we need to buff not nerf, and yes I play boros and you can say op, but If you dont play your op char then I wont either.

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Boros player. Humph, still the most op, skill-less hero in the game. Cerebro and Shadowmourne got what they deserved (Cerebro not enough, there can be no fixing for that item, it needs to be removed like old Ihan. Nova now has double sprint, Boros still can nearly perma-spellspam). If you are talking old LZ, and you mean pre v6, yes he was different. OP actually. He is still the best tank in the game, because he enables his teammates to take a lot more damage and survive, as well as draws fire away from his team. Oh sure, you aren't the one with the ludicrous kills anymore, but you are far from useless, which is good enough for most people. Nova is OP, agreed. So is Shadow, Boros, Zeratul, and to a lesser degree Alpha, Mandrake, Rancor, Darpa, Egon, and one or two others that slip my mind right now.

 

To counter your argument of "If you nerf person A's char because person B's char is crap, person A and B now have crappy chars that C trolls now.", maybe you should nerf B AND C, if both are way stronger than everything else. Your logic of buffing the bad instead of nerfing the "good" would make perfect sense..... except that while there are many "good", the number of "bad" is much larger, and anyways, everyone builds glass cannon, and the game depends enough already on if Nova can oneshot Shadow before he ults and wipes the team, if Boros can be killed before he ults and kills 3+ people, if Zera can be nuke-sniped by Rancor while he is raping the rest of the team in his bubble, etc.....

 

Your attitude of "everyone is picking op heroes, why should I not?" is mirrored by nearly everyone. Even good players are clinging to their one or two op heroes. Have you ever seen kdkgs not play bio, a patch or so ago, when it was OP? (he's moved to queen now) Have you seen SUPERMANA not play Shadow? Well, I don't play op heroes. I've stopped playing Zera since last patch, mostly stopped Rancor since v5.16. I don't remember the last time I've played Boros or Shadow, I think it was pre-v4. I don't play Mandrake or Darpa more than twice a week, and even then, usually only against premades or really good players. You (talking about everyone that plays an OP hero regularly) are all the same to me. I've been crushing you underfoot since v3.0, I'm still crushing you now, and in the future I will still continue crushing you, unless future changes really piss me off and I quit. Pick a balanced hero, and stop relying on your crutches of overpowered heroes to get good results. Because just like when you take steroids in sports, you may not have used them before, you may only have used them just this once, meaning to never use them again, but if people find out you have used them, you will always be "one of those athletes."

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there will always be one char that becomes way too op, by constantly nerfing. Boros cannot perma spell spam anymore, cerebro was really the only way to do that. And I actually enjoy boros, I enjoy melee chars, i find ranged way too easy to play. This means im usually using agility heroes, which means I'm usually playing op chars no because of that. I'd like to be able to play the heroes I like without peeps boiiing about opness, but id also like them to stop nerfing every char i play into oblivion until its not fun to play cuz of constantly dying. One more nerf to boros and then he will prolly be so useless ill have to trade off again.

 

Everyone has said in pubs that Spellsorm should not do damage and 100% spell resist, I agree with this, but instead of doing that they nerf everything else, and just minus some of the damage on spellstorm. If you still boii about omni then ur an idiot, because omni is no where near the top of op ulties, especially with the amount of creep waves in the game.

 

So what if theres more bad chars than good chars, maybe instead of completely changing the gameplay every month for the last 3 patches and working on new heores we get the old up to par. I also have never seen a lord z be an eefect team helper or even close to a good tank. All you do by constantly nerf is make the 2nd and 3rd slot ops becaome even more rediculous and then u add another useless char to the game that no-one will ever play. Case in point everyone stopped playing darpa now hes back, everyone stopped playing cyrpus now hes back, the list goes on, even between the last dfew patches nova stopped being played, now shes back again along with zera. Nerfing accomplishes nothing but add chars to the shap pile of never getting played until a patch comes along that benefits them too much and it gets play time again.

 

Also this is a game, if you hold it against me for using an op char that I like playing, even tho I'd prefer another than your a child.

 

Whats the point of having 100 chars to choose from if only 20 of them are even worth playing and outa that only 7 of them are actually good and useful?

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-_- that's all I have to say. (for now, okay the time is past, going to say more). So u say u like playing melee heroes cause there challenging? Yet u admit there the op ones so how are challenging then? Also stop WAY over exaggerating the balence of various heroes. Lz and other support heroes /tanks/initiators/anything that can't easily snowball of a ks and pwn noobs aren't op. personally I haven't been in the ih seen in a while or even ever, but some heroes simply are better with a team/don't excel against disorganized teams. Remeber unix? People swearing most op thing in pubs, always cloaking and instagibbing one Person at a time twice a minute. Average hero in ih but breaks pubs. Certain heroes will always be better in pubs than ih and it isn't that bad that 1 hero might be BAD in pubs, as that doesn't totally break pubs. The only way to make everyone balanced is first teaching pubs teamwork...

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No, I do not hold it against you for using Boros. I do think he is op, and knowing that a player plays him often does lower my opinion of the player in general, but I'm not going to lynch you on the spot for picking him. I agree that wrong things were nerfed about Boros, such as Bola, for instance, when the real issue at the time was QR combo. My dislike of Boros is not the ludicrous amount of damage he can output, but rather, you or no one else can do anything to Boros to prevent that combo of death and chaos. Every hero that deals similar damage to Boros can be countered, whether by certain heroes, or Taser, or Shrapnel Cloak or whatever. Boros's defensive ability is insane, rivaling most tanks. In fact, with the appropriate (Stupid, yet effective) build Boros IS the best tank in the game. If Spell Storm at least didn't CONSTANTLY remove debuffs, and did it just once, at the start of it, I'd say Boros was strong but fine. Because the way things are atm, Boros can just go "Herp derp, I popped Spellstorm, imma laugh at you while you try to run away, because we both know that you can't do jack shap about me for the next 5 seconds."

 

About your other points: yes, they make sense, unless you are actually doing the work. Ideally there should be a middle ground IMO, with weak being buffed and strong being nerfed, but considering how much would need to be changed, in terms of more than numbers, it would have to be tested, changed again, tested again, etc, etc. It's easier to just appropriately nerf/buff whatever is being boiied about by the masses (actually not so easy, because you can get 10+ people on the forums claiming that something is OP and 10+ saying it's UP, and there is no way of knowing who is correct) then just reworking everything. For example, take an allegedly weak hero, say Mule. What do you buff in him? Damage? Turrents? Utility? Base Stats? Personally, I'd vote for a complete rework of at least his ultimate and heroic passive (timescale rather hard to come by in these troublesome times). But what do you change it to? Even I have no clue. So it's easier to go, "Ok, imma buff int scaling on ult by 15%, that should help". It does.... sort off, but maybe it wasn't the numbers that were wrong, maybe it was the design? Some heroes' design is messed up.... look at Toxi. His ult is the most random one ever seen for an aa hero/chasser. Back in the day of spell leech, it made sense. Now.... absolutely not. Look at Starscream. Does Starscream make sense to you? I build him for max timescale from Yamato, and sometimes Masume, because I haven't a clue about what I should do with him other than spam q and w, and let R do its job. It works fine, but the whole hero seems off, not as polished as others, such as Mandrake, Rory, Jax and others that have a clear, precise function and solid design.

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I find Novas range and early damage OP tbh... Mainly the range. DARPA is kinda OP as well... With old Cerebros you were perma silenced by his sonic grenade...

 

Aggressors guise is great IMO... The passive is very helpful, you don't need to slow an opponent to stick to them with it as well as good hp and cloak...

 

LZ is still pretty good, though he was def better when his heroic and Tenacious Fury gave spell resist as well... Was my main and a beast.

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Nerfing ends up being more work in the end because you scale down a hero, and a new one rises which I alrdy mentioned. Unending nerfs. If you find a specific problem to a hero that a majority has trouble with then make an item to counter it, or you could buff the hero that is suppose to counter him. You could actually add a Nemesis dynamic to the game too. Char A is Char Bs specific counter. Rory is pretty good at countering boros especially with a team that helps him. Whether bubbled or in ulti Stevie can still kill boros. You could add the dynamic of Rory does 10% more damage to boros. They have diff armor types in the game that take less/more damage from certain types so Im sure this could be worked in. Nova also does not give a crap about boros SS.

 

I meant I like the melee chars cuz u cant just pop in from a decently safe distance like nova and pop someone and runaway. When your melee u have to be up close, and this makes u much more vulnerable to stuns silences move speed loss and to surrounding creeps and other players. Bola does alow you to sometimes take that prob away. But most GOOD players dodge easily, or have some sort of get away button. Zeratuls planar is way better for pulling against good peeps cuz u cant see it coming and it can get u out of trouble too. Aeras issue is the damn strike bug that causes u to just sit there after a jump. Balrog also suffers from this too, wish there was a way to fix this. Erukul is really the only ranger I like to play, but since spell leech got removed hes not up to par in an op char game, which unfortunately is 90% of them.

 

The prob with Lord Z imo is that he is a mix between a tank and a carry and not really that good at either. He can run after u and do shap damage or run and drag u with a very easily escapable ability. His ulti is really the only thing besides being str based that is a tank like ability. I'm pretty sure all of his abilities are int based as well. If you compare him againt the other tanks hes definately low man on the totem pole. Balrog and cain are huge hard to kill tanks with alot of killing capability. Alot of the others are either really good support and hard to kill or hard to kill with great dps. Lord Z is a paper tank that wants to be a agility hero that acts like a shapty support hero.

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LZ is whats known as an off tank.... he shouldnt be your main tank as hes not very good at it compared to a true tank, but hes got much better dmg output potential than a true tank. In LOL hes whats known as a bruiser, high hp high dmg but not a tank or an AD carry

 

Lets see people only picking the same 2-3 chars to win every game... I played 10 pubs today, won 8 and I played 7 diferent heros.... If you cant win without one of those 2-3 "op" heros its more a reflection of you than the game.

 

Agressors guise is an incredibly strong item lay off the pot your cognitive abilities go down when your stoned.

 

Shadowmournes just a retarded item period.....

 

So Instead of making it so nova and darpa for examples cant do 30k dmg in 9 seconds we should make it so everyone can do that much dmg thats your master plan for balancing? Go play hero attack.

 

 

How to Kill nova for beginers:

1 Have a burst caster insta rape her, examples, rancor, raynor, cypress, null You get the idea

2 shrapnel cloak Congrats your now fighting a hero with 2k hp with 0 ability to fight back

3 Executioners Axe, shes super squishy and relies on leech to survive buy one of these and shes got no leech.

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LZ is whats known as an off tank.... he shouldnt be your main tank as hes not very good at it compared to a true tank, but hes got much better dmg output potential than a true tank. In LOL hes whats known as a bruiser, high hp high dmg but not a tank or an AD carry

 

Lets see people only picking the same 2-3 chars to win every game... I played 10 pubs today, won 8 and I played 7 diferent heros.... If you cant win without one of those 2-3 "op" heros its more a reflection of you than the game.

 

Agressors guise is an incredibly strong item lay off the pot your cognitive abilities go down when your stoned.

 

Shadowmournes just a retarded item period.....

 

So Instead of making it so nova and darpa for examples cant do 30k dmg in 9 seconds we should make it so everyone can do that much dmg thats your master plan for balancing? Go play hero attack.

 

 

How to Kill nova for beginers:

1 Have a burst caster insta rape her, examples, rancor, raynor, cypress, null You get the idea

2 shrapnel cloak Congrats your now fighting a hero with 2k hp with 0 ability to fight back

3 Executioners Axe, shes super squishy and relies on leech to survive buy one of these and shes got no leech.

 

#3 nova is a burst dps and all of the good novas i see dont go leech, they go for for the 1-2 shot kill with wep damage and kali blade, and black hole magnum, with a masumne

 

darwins is a standard on nova but its normally a late game item. most nova get the talent and 2 machete witch is only 15 % leech but when there doing crits "true" and spell dmg from black hole it doesn't sustain much

 

shrapnel and / or bursting nova down are the way to go but any good nova will join the team fight later after most spells were used and just pick heroes off

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15% leech on 300 dmg is still 45 hp a hit, axe cuts that to 9. So assuming 3 attacks per second (roughly novas attack speed with standard items) your going from her healing 135 hp per second (ie anywhere from 10-5% of her max hp per second) to 27 if you lack a burst caster to insta kill her or even if yours is simply not strong enough to do so and leaves her with a bit of hp left over its practically a neccessity. Her leech gives her regen equivalent to a :LifeTechNanosuit: with 4500 hp IE a fairly typical mid game tank.

 

Also if youve got the shrapnel to negate the nova then you simply dont proc it till she enters the fight. If they have multiple AA carries you need to shut down you might want a second shrapnell cloak on the team

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Lol team fights where peeps do what they need to/told? In pubs this happens maybe 3 outa 10 games, and usually when you do the other team just starts raging left and right because their team isn't doing that. What dream world do you live in where u can pull off winning most games by not having to carry pretty much everyone else. If you dont have this issue then I want your luck/your friends. I rely on certain chars, espescially boros alot because he is versatile and with mixing up items i can cover almost all my bases. It has nothing to do with getting the kills(tho it is nice), it has to do with winning.

 

Just an example of bad team play. Last game I just played we had a rancor that refused to use his stun to hold onto enemies help allies or impede enemies from killing teammates. He insisted on saving his snipe to get the kill shot, and this is one of many in the past few days I've seen doing this. I tell him listen we need you to snipe darpa so he cant run away while we beating him down, but all he cares about is that killing shot to get the kill/mins. There was also a few others I wont get into, but this is the kind of stuff most of my friends and I deal with, all the time. We get a group of 3 and the last 2 are idiots or killhogs or ragers or get dropped at the begin of the map(which happens way too often).

 

If you seriously watch most pubs theres 1-3 peeps that carry the rest of their team, and i dont mean just kill wise, I mean the whole entire game itself. Then the shapty players are always the ones to trash talk as well, my guess is mostly because they never win by their own hands.

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Typical pub game 2 people who know what their doing on each team, possible good players intermixxed aswell. reast made up of varying quantities of fail. Of the two games I lost yesterday 1 was simple because my entire team was fail instead of the 1-2 decent players the other we simply got outplayed.

 

I didn't say I didn't have to carry my teamates I said I didnt have to use the exact same hero to do so each time nor do most of the other forum frequenters, most people on here are good enough to carry with nearly any hero in most pub matchups. (Personaly I cant play tassadar or jackson to save my life.)

 

Some games you get the teams where it just doesnt matter what you do its not possible to win, but thats the risk of pub matches, about 1/10 games is simply absolutely hopeless from the start. If your rolling in a 3 man premade like you just suggested unless your remaining two go 0 and 40 and dont leave youve always got a fighting chance and should infact be winning more often than not matter what heros your using.

 

Novas a strong carry no doubt and pretty easy to use but nova is far easier to counter than quite a number of other heros like prelate boros, rancor.

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