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Someone explain Spell Leech for me?


Nuparu
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I'm lost as to why we removed it ._.

 

If we have normal heroes (AA Heroes) who have leech, why remove spell leech?

 

They both have a hard counter (Executioner's Axe) and each hero type has a counter as well (AA -> Shrapnel, Caster -> Taser).

 

What's the game breaking issue? :/

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Resonators have had a pair of incarnations:

First; they had two uniques:

[1] For every 1 Health you lose [from any source-- spellcast, damage taking] you recover 0.1 Energy.

[2] For every 1 Energy you lose [from any source-- spellcast, energy drain] you recover 0.1 Health.

 

Second: They kept the secondary unique and gave +5% Spell Leech.

 

Resonators cost 300 minerals in both forms.

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Vergil 1 ult full hp, Rancor 2-3 nukes full hp, Erekul unkilliable with creeps around.

 

I dont find gamebreaking spell leech, but casters role isnt recover all hp with 1 skill.

 

Is AA heroes role to recover all their health in 1 second?

I support the idea that casters should have that option, but with a reduced amount of leech like someone said before :P

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Is AA heroes role to recover all their health in 1 second?

I support the idea that casters should have that option, but with a reduced amount of leech like someone said before :P

 

It's not a role, but they are carries, and they survive this way, they must survive fighting, casters must survive staying back and casting spells, and tanks must survive with tons of health imo.

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The thing is that there are no abilities that deal physical damage in an area. If there were, then physical leech would have the same problem that spell leech had; the disparity between single-target spells and AoE spells. AoE spells scale spell leech quadratically with targets hit. If your spell leech is even as low as 5%, hitting 4 enemies heals you for 20% of the spell damage. Hit a wave of 6 creeps and you've got 30%. If you make spell leech low enough that it isn't OP with AoE spell damage, it becomes useless for single-target spell damage and vice versa.

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The thing is that there are no abilities that deal physical damage in an area. If there were, then physical leech would have the same problem that spell leech had; the disparity between single-target spells and AoE spells. AoE spells scale spell leech quadratically with targets hit. If your spell leech is even as low as 5%, hitting 4 enemies heals you for 20% of the spell damage. Hit a wave of 6 creeps and you've got 30%. If you make spell leech low enough that it isn't OP with AoE spell damage, it becomes useless for single-target spell damage and vice versa.

 

Cough, cough, grunty, cough.

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a good poing to put in, most AA heros using leech attack 3 times in a second for atleast 400 hp end game. darwin might gives what 50% or 75% leech, when u hit use. we will go with 25% to make it less though for this. now using 0 spell resist and 0 phsyical resist. thats 300 health from leech in one second. average aoe spell is abotu 15 sec cool down lets go with 10 seconds if using cd reduction. in that 10 seconds u just healed for 3k hp as an AA hero.Aoe spell for 2k hitting 6 targets at 10% leech is only 1200 health leeched. as an auto attack hero you do have to get close but when u hit u will leech, as a spell caster alot of spells are skill shots as in u cast and u might miss so u have to go another 10 seconds before u can leech off that spell. and if ur hero is lucky enough u have another spell that can hit just as hard and hit the same 6 targets. most heros only have 1 aoe spell but there are a couple with more then one.

 

now most spell caster heros dont stack armor or spell resist unless they are a player who understands the importance to countering and most AA heros dont stack spell resist yet there are alot of very nice dps items now with spell resist. ( cant think of any besides parallax that give intel and spell resist or intel and armor off the top of my head, just energy and spell resist / energy and armor. if there is none then AA dps wins again). u might be able to more easily be able to get armor then spell resist but the armor items for spell casters wont benefit them as much in damage dealt like spell resist items for dps will. galatic defender compared to chilling artifact(example). both have a great defensive purpose, defender spell resist and 1050 shields(great vs all damage), artifact gives armor and reduce attack speed of enemy near by(only good vs auto attacks). offensive defender gives 80 weapon damage and artifact gives cdr 20%. weapon damage stacks as in 20+20=40, cdr stacks as in 0.8(20%)*0.8(20%)= 36% cdr. This isn't comparing weapon damage items vs spell damage items. just trying to explain before someone complains about saying u can get more physical then u can spell resist how yes u can but the down fall is....

 

what did we learn here 60% spell leech is weaker then 25% physical leech when compared with attack speed and cd reduction. so spell resist wasnt a bad thing to have in the game.

 

the so called abusing of spell leech by drake and erekul and so on yes it was strong just as strong as say nova getting low, sprinting to nearest creep and shotting 2-3 times to get to full hp and then back in the fight. any hero with a good escape or using a warp shard can do that. and if a hero is in the fight vs other heros doing that a simple axe will slow to almost stop that. same way u have to do that just to keep shadow now from rapping a team. my super tank vorpal build i sit at 60% spell resist and 85% physical resist and shadow not crit build, a decent player, can still rape me when he catches me with little to no orbs

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To sum up what has been said. AoE spells are the problem. AA is single target and has a limited potential. AoE has a much higher potential for leech.

So, please explain me how is balanced to start the game with base lvl 2.5, over 110 weapon damage, 16% weapon damage leech more balanced than spell leech? Thats a serious doubt i've always had.

How is balanced a hero with 50% WP leech, 0.25 aspd (4 attacks per second) and over 400 WD?

 

WD (physical leech) has ALWAYS been more efficient tha Spell leech, always. The problem is that some heros had pretty powerfull AoE spell damage and (also some items), so in the end, hard melee/tank heros who fullfilled their roles perfectly, also had an improved sustainability due to spell leech.

 

 

The thing is that there are no abilities that deal physical damage in an area. If there were, then physical leech would have the same problem that spell leech had; the disparity between single-target spells and AoE spells. AoE spells scale spell leech quadratically with targets hit. If your spell leech is even as low as 5%, hitting 4 enemies heals you for 20% of the spell damage. Hit a wave of 6 creeps and you've got 30%. If you make spell leech low enough that it isn't OP with AoE spell damage, it becomes useless for single-target spell damage and vice versa.

And why don't you ever make a chart of sustained leech over time in fuction of WD DPS? That will shouw you that even if Spell leech becomes in extreme proficient against crowds, it is highly uneffective against single targets, that is exxact same opposite flaw of WP leech, against single targets it is in extreme efficient, but against crowds it is not, then you add to the ecuation ASDP and you DPS becomes so high that, most of the times, it bypass the WD leech only flaw...

If a hero has 0.5 weapon speed, it attacks twice per second, add to that 400 weapon damage and , crit for 520+ weapon damage, put 50% armor and you still have 260. Even in some cases where the heros cannot reach high aspd, they have items to compensate for the extended engagement time, say for example taser for a 5 second fight, that is enough for darpa to kill most heros, over that he can add 3 more seconds of silence, reduce your armor and laugh while he rapes you.

 

Silence > Spell Leech (MOST of the time)

WD Leech > Silence (Every time)

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Resonators have had a pair of incarnations:

First; they had two uniques:

[1] For every 1 Health you lose [from any source-- spellcast, damage taking] you recover 0.1 Energy.

[2] For every 1 Energy you lose [from any source-- spellcast, energy drain] you recover 0.1 Health.

 

Second: They kept the secondary unique and gave +5% Spell Leech.

 

Resonators cost 300 minerals in both forms.

As i can remember it was 0,2 health per 1 mana lost and 0,2mana per health lost. I sure, because i could get 5 resonators on erecul for 1 mana per 1 health lost and vise versa.

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a good poing to put in, most AA heros using leech attack 3 times in a second for atleast 400 hp end game. darwin might gives what 50% or 75% leech, when u hit use. we will go with 25% to make it less though for this. now using 0 spell resist and 0 phsyical resist. thats 300 health from leech in one second. average aoe spell is abotu 15 sec cool down lets go with 10 seconds if using cd reduction. in that 10 seconds u just healed for 3k hp as an AA hero.Aoe spell for 2k hitting 6 targets at 10% leech is only 1200 health leeched. as an auto attack hero you do have to get close but when u hit u will leech, as a spell caster alot of spells are skill shots as in u cast and u might miss so u have to go another 10 seconds before u can leech off that spell. and if ur hero is lucky enough u have another spell that can hit just as hard and hit the same 6 targets. most heros only have 1 aoe spell but there are a couple with more then one.

 

now most spell caster heros dont stack armor or spell resist unless they are a player who understands the importance to countering and most AA heros dont stack spell resist yet there are alot of very nice dps items now with spell resist. ( cant think of any besides parallax that give intel and spell resist or intel and armor off the top of my head, just energy and spell resist / energy and armor. if there is none then AA dps wins again). u might be able to more easily be able to get armor then spell resist but the armor items for spell casters wont benefit them as much in damage dealt like spell resist items for dps will. galatic defender compared to chilling artifact(example). both have a great defensive purpose, defender spell resist and 1050 shields(great vs all damage), artifact gives armor and reduce attack speed of enemy near by(only good vs auto attacks). offensive defender gives 80 weapon damage and artifact gives cdr 20%. weapon damage stacks as in 20+20=40, cdr stacks as in 0.8(20%)*0.8(20%)= 36% cdr. This isn't comparing weapon damage items vs spell damage items. just trying to explain before someone complains about saying u can get more physical then u can spell resist how yes u can but the down fall is....

 

what did we learn here 60% spell leech is weaker then 25% physical leech when compared with attack speed and cd reduction. so spell resist wasnt a bad thing to have in the game.

 

the so called abusing of spell leech by drake and erekul and so on yes it was strong just as strong as say nova getting low, sprinting to nearest creep and shotting 2-3 times to get to full hp and then back in the fight. any hero with a good escape or using a warp shard can do that. and if a hero is in the fight vs other heros doing that a simple axe will slow to almost stop that. same way u have to do that just to keep shadow now from rapping a team. my super tank vorpal build i sit at 60% spell resist and 85% physical resist and shadow not crit build, a decent player, can still rape me when he catches me with little to no orbs

 

have some one in your team buy an ax, its standardize practice ya know?

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