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Make debuffs do 1 true damage so you get assists for them


akanna
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So this came up because I realized one day that you don't actually get assists for marking with raynors mark because it does no damage, but one of the problems with the current game is that you often don't get assists for applying debuffs if they do no damage.

 

Assists are based on damage done in last 20-30 sec or so, or on proximity to hero dying in a 8-12 ish range (this was done so egon can get assists while healing). Not sure if those are the exact figures, so don't quote me on them, I'm guessing them based on what I've seen in games. For this thread the exact numbers are not really important, just that you get assists for doing damage or being close enough to the hero when they die.

 

If you use taser on a hero, or apply some kind of debuff or other affect to them (such as raynors mark) that is assisting in the fight, and you should get assists for it, even if you are not in the proximity range when the hero dies. The easiest way to make this happen, is to make all defuffs (skills / actives) that deal no damage do a token damage of 1 true damage, so that when they are applied they give you credit for assisting, even if you've moved out of proximity.

 

Its kind of sucky when you mark someone with raynor that your teammates are fighting, and because they take an extra 30% damage they are dead before you get close enough to get a hit in for assists. The same goes for other debuffs that currently deal no damage.

 

Off the top of my head this change would include things like taser, gruntys swamp traps, lockbox, raynors mark, etc. I'd have to go through all the heros and items to compile a full list.

 

Shadows vortex was changed to deal 1 true damage back in the day so he would get assists for it, I think its time we updated other heros skills and item actives to do the same.

 

Thoughts??

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againt, assists are proximity based. 90% certain of that

 

Not true its def both, theres a limited range around the hero for you getting credits for assist automatically even if you havent done damage (I think its somewhere between 8-12, but I dont know for sure the exact number, I just know its less than the range of raynors mark), but if you damaged someone you'll still get credit for assisting even if they've moved out of that range for you. Otherwise youd never get assists on things like Raynor/Bio Ult that chases ppl down from far out of everyone elses range (when no one has proximity) or on long range grunty rockets....

 

Also if you attack someone and they get away but someone else picks them off, you'll still get an assist if it happened within a certain time period (not sure exactly what it is though) because you damaged them, I made a guess that it's about 20-30 seconds above but its probably less.

Heck I've seen a rancor get credit for a tower kill more than 10-20 seconds after they'd left the game before, just because they were the last one to do damage. (I can dig up the replay if needed)

 

And as Adamantium said you can still get assists while you are dead, even though your body is technically in spawn pool, based on heros you damaged before you died

 

There is def a damage component to assists. You can easily confirm it. Run into a fight do some damage, then move like 15 away, youll get an assist still when the enemy dies. But if you stand 15 away without hitting at all you wont. (15 is a rough guess for being out of range, should work though). Or just look for someone getting assists off a bio/raynor ult where the enemy took off running....or play grunty and get a long range rocket assist (which I can send replays of ppl doing from over 100 units away)

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Wouldn't this take away the debuff immunity of Boros's spell storm?

Not sure what you are getting at, boros would take 1 true damage, but the debuffs would still go away like always

Nothing would change

 

His debuff immunity isn't actually "immunity", It actively removes debuffs every .1 seconds or something like that (ask midknight for exact specs, he knows everything)

Thats the reason he can still be silenced with SS up (it blocks the debuff removal from activating on it), and the reason you can still cast other debuffs on him while its up (they just go away instantly).

Have been wanting to test for awhile if silencing him with SS up opens him up to other debuffs....but I dont think it does

Not that thats relevant to this thread.....

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His debuff immunity isn't actually "immunity", It actively removes debuffs every .1 seconds or something like that (ask midknight for exact specs, he knows everything)

Thats the reason he can still be silenced with SS up (it blocks the debuff removal from activating on it), and the reason you can still cast other debuffs on him while its up (they just go away instantly).

Have been wanting to test for awhile if silencing him with SS up opens him up to other debuffs....but I dont think it does

Not that thats relevant to this thread.....

 

Debuff imunity completely counters all debuffs including silences. However, there are some debuffs that constantly "reapply" themselves such as Raynor's Silencing Shot, Micro's Slime, Taser (I think) and a few others I can't remember off the top of my head. There is also an "enviroment debuffs" that are not affected by Debuff imunity, such as Bio, Drake, Zeratul ultimates. Other silences, such as Darpa's or Egon's are instantly shrugged off by debuff imunity. And no, to answer your question, reapllying/enviroment silences ignore debuff immunity, neither have an effect on the other, meaning you cannot be debuffed otherwise, but are still silenced.

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DARPA's Sonic Grenade and Egon's Proton Pack silences are not dispelled should they be used on a Boros who has Spell Storm up.

Just fyi

Darpa's Sonic grenade works differently than other silences. I believe it is the only silence to be dis spelled on debuff immunities. I've never been silenced if i had darpa use the sonic grenade when I have debuff immunity, (spell storm or other abilities).

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Naw, debuffs are too easy to assist with, in that case every team fight some heroes would have a greater farm rate just for standing around not in sight during fights(jackson for chance) heroes using a chilling artifcat now would be able to get insta assist by walking by their opponents.

 

Very little changes could change farm for some components of the meta game

 

So, i wouldnt approve.

 

I could be talking out of my ass here. pls correct me if I'm wrong, I always accept peoples criticisms, opinions and ideas so i can always improve my own :D

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Naw, debuffs are too easy to assist with, in that case every team fight some heroes would have a greater farm rate just for standing around not in sight during fights(jackson for chance) heroes using a chilling artifcat now would be able to get insta assist by walking by their opponents.

 

Very little changes could change farm for some components of the meta game

 

So, i wouldnt approve.

 

I could be talking out of my ass here. pls correct me if I'm wrong, I always accept peoples criticisms, opinions and ideas so i can always improve my own :D

 

Explain to me how applying a debuff isnt assisting by definition lol

If a skill or action you do helps in the killing of a hero you assisted in that killing

If I silence or Mark or apply other debuffs to a hero I am making them easier to kill, and I should get an assist for that

That's the definition of assistance

 

As for your comment about standing around and getting assists that already happens if you are close enough, if you are within 8-12 (not sure on exact number) units of a dying enemy you'll get assists regardless of whether you did anything at all....(proximity assist)

 

What I am proposing wont change any of the meta or farming, or do anything to upset game balance. If anything it levels the playing field. Its not fair that some heros get credit for assisting when using debuffs while others dont just because some of the debuff skills do no damage. Its not fair that you dont get assist credits for tasering or LBing someone unless you also get a hit in on them (AA carrys can kill so fast theres no time to get close enough for that token hit if you are a close range hero).

 

The best example of course, as I've mentioned many times is raynors mark (which often allows you to kill someone that would normally kill you, and therefore you couldn't have done it without the assistance from raynor, and he deserves that assist).

Its kinda sucky when ppl die before you can actually get close enough to get a hit in because you marked them. But if you dont mark them and instead wait till you get close enough to get that hit in before applying mark (so you do get an assist), thats bad teamplay and can often lead to dead teammates (although you get the cleanup kill). Why should he have to choose between helping his team and getting an assist, when helping the team is assiting?

 

So no this will not break the game, it will instead improve the game.

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I miss when Darpa's SG dealt damage, it was so funny to last hit heros with it :(

shap I remember when darpa had auto turrets ;_;

Agree. I remember the days...

 

*plant a hundred remote mines in one choke*

 

Yeah, I remember those.

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  • 2 weeks later...

In testing a certain aspect of the game, I found that Mark of Death adds one phantom damage to the target whenever they take damage. I'm thinking it was an attempt to give "assist damage" for Raynor who just marks the target, but it seems that the point of damage may just apply to whoever is attacking rather than being credited to Raynor.

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In testing a certain aspect of the game, I found that Mark of Death adds one phantom damage to the target whenever they take damage. I'm thinking it was an attempt to give "assist damage" for Raynor who just marks the target, but it seems that the point of damage may just apply to whoever is attacking rather than being credited to Raynor.

 

That's interesting, I wonder why it would go to the attacker instead of crediting raynor. Prob has something to do with attack triggers.

I suppose that would technically make this a bug (at least for mark) although there are other debuffs that do need a token damage change.

 

Is it possible the extra damage you saw was just from rounding up by 1 bc the mark tipped the decimal?

 

Either way the damage would need to be 1 true damage and it should proc on cast (not attack) for it to really give credit properly

(altho that may require a change to electric mantle so it only procs on more than 1 dmg?? or not, could see arguments for either way)

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