[11/6-10:13]Character Balance list Pubs&IH

[NoWaterJustIce]

Its been a while since on of these was done so i wanted to just throw it out there and see what the masses think. Give a list of all the heros and state how strong u think that hero is on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being ridiculousness OP, and 1 being worthless piece of garbage.

 

NOTE: THIS THREAD IS NOT A BALANCE DEBATE. DO NOT POST FIXES FOR THESE HERO'S OR ARGUE ABOUT WHAT OTHER PEOPLE RATED. THAT CAN BE DONE IN ANOTHER THREAD.

 

 

Hero Name - [PUB/IH]

 

Forum Opinion so Far

 

Fine.Brine [4.75/5]

Micro.Gravitus [5.5/7.2]

Infernal.Mandrake [6.4/7.2]

Sarah.Kerrigan [5.4/6]

Ironhide.Cain [6.5/5]

Omega.Starscream [4.1/3.2]

Biotron.Tyrannitus [6.5/5.2]

Chuck.TBone [4.5/4.3]

Balrog.Brutalizer [6.5/6.3]

Tychus.Findlay [6.5/6.6]

Lord.Zyrkhan [6/5.8]

Vorpal.Valedict [6.5/7.3]

Marine.King [5.8/6.5]

 

Voltron.Leo [5.5/4.3]

Shadow.Geminus [8.2/7.25]

Geminus.Boros [7.6/5.5]

Prelate.Zeratul [7.2/5.3]

Vagabond.Darpa [7.2/6.8]

Tiberius.Rancor [6.6/6]

Toximance.Vespus [6.5/6.3]

EnTaro.Tassadar [4.1/2.3]

Molgloo.Grunty [5.6/5.5]

Vergil.Nerazim [5.4/6.8]

Terra.Nova [7.7/6.9]

Gabriel.Tosh [6.3/7.1]

Alpha Crackling [6.5/5.8]

 

Rory.Swann [6.1/6]

Egon.Stetmann [6.9/7]

Hybrid.Maar [4.3/3.5]

Subterran.Unix [5.6/5.3]

Dusti.Brawler [4.2/4]

Erekul.Sartonis [5.2/5.5]

James.Raynor [5.6/5.8]

Garamond.Singsprocket [4.8/4.5]

System.Cyprus [6.4/5]

Roulette.Jackson [4.5/6.8]

Queen.Imperius [5.1/5.5]

Null.Disruptor [6.7/6.8]

Jakk.Summers [5/4.5]

 

 

(My opinion)

 

Fine.Brine [5/5]

Micro.Gravitus [6/7]

Infernal.Mandrake [7/7]

Sarah.Kerrigan [4/6]

Ironhide.Cain [6/5]

Omega.Starscream [4/3]

Biotron.Tyrannitus [6/5]

Chuck.TBone [5/5]

Balrog.Brutalizer [7/7]

Tychus.Findlay [6/7.5]

Lord.Zyrkhan [7/6]

Vorpal.Valedict [7/7]

Marine.King [6/6]

 

Voltron.Leo [5/4]

Shadow.Geminus [7/6]

Geminus.Boros [8.5/6]

Prelate.Zeratul [7/6]

Vagabond.Darpa [6/7]

Tiberius.Rancor [7/6]

Toximance.Vespus [7/6]

EnTaro.Tassadar [?/?] (dont see this hero in pubs or Ih so i would be guessing at the number)

Molgloo.Grunty [6/6]

Vergil.Nerazim [6/6]

Terra.Nova [8/7.5]

Gabriel.Tosh [8/7.5]

Alpha Crackling [8/7]

 

Rory.Swann [6/5]

Egon.Stetmann [7/6]

Hybrid.Maar [4/4]

Subterran.Unix [5/5]

Dusti.Brawler [4/5]

Erekul.Sartonis [5/5]

James.Raynor [6/6]

Garamond.Singsprocket [6/6]

System.Cyprus [6/5]

Roulette.Jackson [5/7]

Queen.Imperius [6/6]

Null.Disruptor [6/7]

Jakk.Summers [6/5]

 

[Doom]

Where did you get those numbers? Not saying they're wrong or anything, but usually threads like this don't start with anything, then get update as more and more people post their oppinions.

 

IMO, Darpa is much more deadly in pubs than Nova, therefore should be at least 8, unless Nova is made a 7 (which she should, many play her, few do well, in my experience). Boros deserves a 9.5, everyone admits that the counter to him is teamwork, so the fair number in a pub would actually be ~12. Apart from Cain seeming too weak compared to how good he is, and Rancor not being an 8.5 in pubs, I'd say more or less correct.

[NoWaterJustIce]

sorry those where my numbers i gave just to start things off.. not saying that they are right just giving my opinion

[Skydie]

Boros recieved massive nerf by Cerebro change. Tosh is imba.

[Nuparu]

DARPA is a monster in pubs.

 

;)

[akanna]

It's interesting that no hero scored below 5 (cept maar), creating a pretty solid baseline

 

not sure how you account for variable strength (some heros are far stronger based on team ally/enemy comp)

 

but either way, pretty sure many of the pub scores are off, they match IH too closely

 

heros most likely to be able to pull off a 20-5 or something like that in pubs should prob be closer to 10 than they are

Darpa, Boros, Zera, Nova, Cyprus, Shadow, Rancor, Alpha?? etc

 

 

MAARs score may actually be a little high, hes super weak on his own, and needs strong support till his INT gets high late game

I suggested they change Savior Aura to buff allied units defenses that stand in it (instead of nerfing enemy attacks) to address this somewhat

Making him more useful and giving him better survivability

Crossing fingers :p

 

EDIT:

Your jack pub score is def high, hes maybe a 4 / 5

Tosh seems really high for pubs, he should also be 4 / 5

 

 

Weakest heros in pubs are prob:

tassadar, starscream, jack, tosh, garamond (unless played by someone like rakura :P), dustin, Maar, roullette.jackson

 

they are also least commonly used for that reason (you will see ppl rock with them or suck with them from time to time, but overall they just dont get as much play as other heros, bc its a lot harder to get good scores with them)

 

Pubs players are mostly focused on KD ratios and stats

[NoWaterJustIce]

It's interesting that no hero scored below 5 (cept maar), creating a pretty solid baseline

 

-Starscream, leo and Brawler had a 4

 

not sure how you account for variable strength (some heros are far stronger based on team ally/enemy comp)

 

-These are just estimations based off what i see. not saying that my numbers are law or correct even. though if u could post your own list that would be great :) then i can update the forum list :D

 

but either way, pretty sure many of the pub scores are off, they match IH too closely

 

heros most likely to be able to pull off a 20-5 or something like that in pubs should prob be closer to 10 than they are

Darpa, Boros, Zera, Nova, Cyprus, Shadow, Rancor, Alpha?? etc

 

- maybe i should play more pubs then but like i said the numbers are just what i feel. :)

 

MAARs score may actually be a little high, hes super weak on his own, and needs strong support till his INT gets high late game

I suggested they change Savior Aura to buff allied units defenses that stand in it (instead of nerfing enemy attacks) to address this somewhat

Making him more useful and giving him better survivability

Crossing fingers :p

 

-it prolly wont be changed. though in a team fight if u can place the blue aura well it does wonders for your team.

 

[akanna]

I suppose a good question is what do you mean by "strength"?

 

Is strength defined by ability to get kills, and stay alive?

 

Some heros are very hard to rack up kills with and die easy, but can get lots of assists

Does this make them "weak"?

 

Also are we assessing strength 1v1 or in a teamfight?

[NoWaterJustIce]

I suppose a good question is what do you mean by "strength"?

 

Is strength defined by ability to get kills, and stay alive?

 

Some heros are very hard to rack up kills with and die easy, but can get lots of assists

Does this make them "weak"?

 

Also are we assessing strength 1v1 or in a teamfight?

 

how strong is the hero in doing its role. is it a hero u want in your team comp or do u cringe when u see it being picked. just in general how good is the hero.

[akanna]

how strong is the hero in doing its role. is it a hero u want in your team comp or do u cringe when u see it being picked. just in general how good is the hero.

 

Haha well then, in my experience at least from pubs

 

heros you think, o crap I hope they dont suck:

tassadar, tosh, jack, maar, starscream, dustin, roullette.jackson, garamond(altho he is a good pusher)

 

Generally you expect very little from people playing these heros outside of assists, and prepare to carry the slack

If the rest of the team is strong, these heros thrive pretty well, if its weak, they are often a liability

As I mentioned above they dont get a lot of play, so when you see them you always feel a little uneasy

 

Cant really think of many times where Ive seen anyone do "amazing" with most of those (esp tassadar and jackson)

 

 

On the flip side

Heros you are happy to see on your team in pubs:

Boros, nova, shadow, rory, cyprus, zera, micro, drake, balrog, brine, cain, bio, unix, MK, Null, Egon

 

The rest you feel neutral about really....

 

Edit:

 

Jackson is actually played less than tassadar in pubs, I think Ive only ever seen him in like 4-5 games out of 600+

He really gets no love

Amazed you have a pub rating :P

[NoWaterJustIce]

Haha well then, in my experience at least

 

heros you think, o crap I hope they dont suck:

tassadar, tosh, jack, maar, starscream, dustin, roullette.jackson, garamond(altho he is a good pusher)

 

Generally you expect very little from people playing these heros outside of assists, and prepare to carry the slack

If the team is strong, these heros thrive pretty well, if its weak, they are often a liability

As I mentioned above they dont get a lot of play, so when you see them you always feel a little uneasy

 

 

On the flip side

Heros you are happy to see on your team in pubs:

Boros, nova, shadow, rory, cyprus, zera, micro, drake, balrog, brine, cain, bio, unix, MK, Null

 

The rest you feel neutral about really....

 

can u put numbers to those heros? also this from a pub perspective right? :)

[CapricorN]

I play only pubs, so marks only for pub

Fine.Brine [5

Micro.Gravitus [6.5

Infernal.Mandrake [6.8

Sarah.Kerrigan [6.4

Ironhide.Cain [6.8

Omega.Starscream [3.7

Biotron.Tyrannitus [5.6

Chuck.TBone [5

Balrog.Brutalizer [6.4

Tychus.Findlay [6.8

Lord.Zyrkhan [6.2

Vorpal.Valedict [6.7

Marine.King [5.8

Voltron.Leo [5.2

Shadow.Geminus [7.4

Geminus.Boros [8

Prelate.Zeratul [7.9

Vagabond.Darpa [7.3

Tiberius.Rancor [6.5

Toximance.Vespus [6.5

EnTaro.Tassadar [5

Molgloo.Grunty [5.6

Vergil.Nerazim [6.2

Terra.Nova [8.4

Gabriel.Tosh [7.8

Alpha Crackling [6.7

Rory.Swann [6.3

Egon.Stetmann [6.9

Hybrid.Maar [5

Subterran.Unix [5

Dusti.Brawler [5.1

Erekul.Sartonis [5.1

James.Raynor [6.5

Garamond.Singsprocket [6

System.Cyprus [6.7

Roulette.Jackson [5.2

Queen.Imperius [5.1

Null.Disruptor [6.4

Jakk.Summers [6.6

[akanna]

can u put numbers to those heros? also this from a pub perspective right? :)

 

Yup thats my feelings from playing in pubs all the time

Its my observations of what heros tend to do really well in games and which ones tend to struggle or feed

The first batch tends to die a lot more than they kill and tend to piggyback most of the game (like if you had a team that was only these chars you're almost guarenteed to loose)

The second tends to kill way more than they die and can hold their own pretty well (you usually see at least 2-3 of these chars on ppls teams)

 

I have to think on numbers, so I'll do it later

[akanna]

Eh what the heck I'll give it a go

Kinda just winged these off the top of my head, will probably edit later when I think it through more

Basing this off of scores from all the games I've played, using 5 as "average"

 

But for pubs:

Fine.Brine [5

Micro.Gravitus [6.5/7

Infernal.Mandrake [6.5/7

Sarah.Kerrigan [5

Ironhide.Cain [7.5

Omega.Starscream [4

Biotron.Tyrannitus [7.5

Chuck.TBone [4/5

Balrog.Brutalizer [6.5

Tychus.Findlay [7

Lord.Zyrkhan [5

Vorpal.Valedict [6

Marine.King [5.5

Voltron.Leo [5

Shadow.Geminus [8.5

Geminus.Boros [9

Prelate.Zeratul [8

Vagabond.Darpa [7.5

Tiberius.Rancor [6.5

Toximance.Vespus [6.5

EnTaro.Tassadar [4

Molgloo.Grunty [6

Vergil.Nerazim [7

Terra.Nova [8.5

Gabriel.Tosh [4

Alpha Crackling [6.5

Rory.Swann [6.5/7

Egon.Stetmann [7

Hybrid.Maar [4

Subterran.Unix [6.5

Dusti.Brawler [4/5

Erekul.Sartonis [5?

James.Raynor [6.5

Garamond.Singsprocket [5

System.Cyprus [6.5

Roulette.Jackson [3

Queen.Imperius [5

Null.Disruptor [6.5/7

Jakk.Summers [4

[Hurricane]

PUbs

Fine.Brine 5

Micro.Gravitus 6

Infernal.Mandrake 6

Sarah.Kerrigan 6

Ironhide.Cain 8

Omega.Starscream 5

Biotron.Tyrannitus 8

Chuck.TBone 4

Balrog.Brutalizer 5

Tychus.Findlay 7

Lord.Zyrkhan 5

Vorpal.Valedict 6

Marine.King 5

Voltron.Leo 6

Shadow.Geminus 8

Geminus.Boros 9

Prelate.Zeratul 8

Vagabond.Darpa 6

Tiberius.Rancor 7

Toximance.Vespus 7

EnTaro.Tassadar 5

Molgloo.Grunty 5

Vergil.Nerazim 5

Terra.Nova 7

Gabriel.Tosh 5

Alpha Crackling 6

Rory.Swann 6

Egon.Stetmann 7

Hybrid.Maar 7

Subterran.Unix 5

Dusti.Brawler 5

Erekul.Sartonis 4

James.Raynor 5

Garamond.Singsprocket 5

System.Cyprus 6

Roulette.Jackson 4

Queen.Imperius 5

Null.Disruptor 8

Jakk.Summers 6

[Gitch]

For pub only...

 

Fine.Brine {4

Micro.Gravitus [4

Infernal.Mandrake [5

Sarah.Kerrigan [5

Ironhide.Cain [8

Omega.Starscream [4

Biotron.Tyrannitus [5

Chuck.TBone [4

Balrog.Brutalizer [6

Tychus.Findlay [6

Lord.Zyrkhan [6

Vorpal.Valedict [5

Marine.King [4

Voltron.Leo [7

Shadow.Geminus [10 (OP)

Geminus.Boros [6

Prelate.Zeratul [6

Vagabond.Darpa [9 (OP)

Tiberius.Rancor [5

Toximance.Vespus [5

EnTaro.Tassadar [5

Molgloo.Grunty [5

Vergil.Nerazim [3

Terra.Nova [8

Gabriel.Tosh [6

Alpha Crackling [6

Rory.Swann [5

Egon.Stetmann [6

Hybrid.Maar [3

Subterran.Unix [5

Dusti.Brawler [3

Erekul.Sartonis [4

James.Raynor [5

Garamond.Singsprocket [5

System.Cyprus [6

Roulette.Jackson [5

Queen.Imperius [4

Null.Disruptor [7

Jakk.Summers [3

[JustZerO]

Fine.Brine [5/5]

Micro.Gravitus [6/8]

Infernal.Mandrake [8/8]

Sarah.Kerrigan [6/7]

Ironhide.Cain [5/5]

Omega.Starscream [4/3]

Biotron.Tyrannitus [7/6]

Chuck.TBone [5/4]

Balrog.Brutalizer [7/8]

Tychus.Findlay [7/7]

Lord.Zyrkhan [6/6]

Vorpal.Valedict [7/8]

Marine.King [7/7]

 

Voltron.Leo [6/5]

Shadow.Geminus [8/7]

Geminus.Boros [7/6]

Prelate.Zeratul [7/5]

Vagabond.Darpa [7/7]

Tiberius.Rancor [7/6]

Toximance.Vespus [7/7]

EnTaro.Tassadar [2/1]

Molgloo.Grunty [6/6]

Vergil.Nerazim [6/7]

Terra.Nova [8/7]

Gabriel.Tosh [8/9]

Alpha Crackling [7/6]

 

Rory.Swann [7/7]

Egon.Stetmann [8/7]

Hybrid.Maar [4/3]

Subterran.Unix [7/6]

Dusti.Brawler [5/3]

Erekul.Sartonis [6/6]

Jim.Raynor [6/6]

Garamond.Singsprocket [5/5]

System.Cyprus [7/5]

Roulette.Jackson [6/6]

Queen.Imperius [7/5]

Null.Disruptor [7/7]

Jakk.Summers [6/5]

[ZoboCamel]

I'll include IHs in my list, but keep in mind that my knowledge of them isn't very extensive; I've played enough to understand the basics of what heroes are strong, but I may not be right on some counts.

 

Fine.Brine [4/5]

Micro.Gravitus [4/7]

Infernal.Mandrake [6/7]

Sarah.Kerrigan [5/5]

Ironhide.Cain [6/5]

Omega.Starscream [4/4]

Biotron.Tyrannitus [6/4]

Chuck.TBone [4/5]

Balrog.Brutalizer [7/4]

Tychus.Findlay [7/6]

Lord.Zyrkhan [6/6]

Vorpal.Valedict [7/8]

Marine.King [7/6]

 

Voltron.Leo [4/4]

Shadow.Geminus [8/7]

Geminus.Boros [8/5]

Prelate.Zeratul [7/5]

Vagabond.Darpa [7/6]

Tiberius.Rancor [7/6]

Toximancer.Vespus [6/6]

EnTaro.Tassadar [4/3]

Molgloo.Grunty [5/5]

Vergil.Nerazim [5/6]

Terra.Nova [7/6]

Gabriel.Tosh [5/6]

Alpha Crackling [5/4]

 

Rory.Swann [6/6]

Egon.Stetmann [7/8]

Hybrid.Maar [3/4]

Subterran.Unix [5/5]

Dusti.Brawler [3/4]

Erekul.Sartonis [6/5]

Jim.Raynor [5/6]

Garamond.Singsprocket [2/3]

System.Cyprus [7/5]

Roulette.Jackson [3/7]

Queen.Imperius [4/5]

Null.Disruptor [5/6]

Jakk.Summers [4/4]

[Spooky]

Differences between pub and ih vote is only because of team play factor.

 

Fine.Brine [5/5]

Micro.Gravitus [5/7]

Infernal.Mandrake [6/7]

Sarah.Kerrigan [6/6]

Ironhide.Cain [5/5]

Omega.Starscream [4/3]

Biotron.Tyrannitus [7/6]

Chuck.TBone [5/3]

Balrog.Brutalizer [7/6]

Tychus.Findlay [6/6]

Lord.Zyrkhan [7/5]

Vorpal.Valedict [7/7]

Marine.King [6/7]

 

Voltron.Leo [6/4]

Shadow.Geminus [9/9]

Geminus.Boros [6/5]

Prelate.Zeratul [7/5]

Vagabond.Darpa [8/7]

Tiberius.Rancor [7/6]

Toximance.Vespus [7/6]

EnTaro.Tassadar [4/3]

Molgloo.Grunty [6/5]

Vergil.Nerazim [7/8]

Terra.Nova [8/7]

Gabriel.Tosh [7/6]

Alpha Crackling [7/6]

 

Rory.Swann [6/6]

Egon.Stetmann [6/7]

Hybrid.Maar [5/3]

Subterran.Unix [7/5]

Dusti.Brawler [5/4]

Erekul.Sartonis [7/6]

Jim.Raynor [5/5]

Garamond.Singsprocket [4/4]

System.Cyprus [6/5]

Roulette.Jackson [5/7]

Queen.Imperius [5/6]

Null.Disruptor [8/7]

Jakk.Summers [4/4]

[CapricorN]

@gitch

lol, you marked darpa and shadow with 9 and 10 while boros is 6...

[pandemonium]

Boros recieved massive nerf by Cerebro change. Tosh is imba.

 

You Sir don't know what are you talking about.

 

@OP I lol at this thread, any pub player can pick an agi hero and make kills with noobs and feeders ans then be a problem.

 

Anyone of you seriously lost the laning phase against an average pub player, even in hard lane against Nova, Boros, Shadow, Darpa, Vespus, Crackling, etc? lol...

 

Its an insult ppl claim Darpa op. 90% of the players dont know that Spider Mine proc with Vendetta stacks. Ppl just AA and jump to run. But its a pub, what did I spect?

[NoWaterJustIce]

You Sir don't know what are you talking about.

 

@OP I lol at this thread, any pub player can pick an agi hero and make kills with noobs and feeders ans then be a problem.

 

Anyone of you seriously lost the laning phase against an average pub player, even in hard lane against Nova, Boros, Shadow, Darpa, Vespus, Crackling, etc? lol...

 

Its an insult ppl claim Darpa op. 90% of the players dont know that Spider Mine proc with Vendetta stacks. Ppl just AA and jump to run. But its a pub, what did I spect?

 

pls dont discus actual balance in this thread. either post a number list or dont post anything at all :) if u have strong feelings about a specific hero(s) pls create another thread to talk about them.

[Itsthatguy]

The numbers varies with the skill of the player... I've seen people just total own with certain heroes that gotten a low rating from people, while other heroes are who have high ratings, ppl may not play well as.

These numbers would be fairly accurate tho towards the Average skilled player in Pub//IH. (A very skilled caster can die to a very noobish AA hero, if the caster missed his shot, or gets auto-finaled by boros.) [Hence the why alot of AA heroes in pubs, As the player skill's is higher, the gap between AA//caster gets smaller)

 

Example: Finebrine got rated about 4 - 5 by nearly everyone. I haven't seen a single person to really play him fairly well. Yet I play him, I've always been positive (usually at least 3/1 ratio with second or highest kills, even if their is a boros or nova.)

Another thing is Cain got rated 5 - 6, I totally suck at Cain, and can't even kill a person to save my life, unless i was fed some how... (ALOT).

 

Of course the AA heroes will have higher rating (especially in Pub) since most the average skilled player isn't very high, and A+Click, doesn't really take much skill. (You will notice if you play a pub, and your team is just owning, the enemy AA will still charge in, as if they can take on your entire team, or two of you by themselves., or RQ when not fed).

I think that if you had a 5v5 with equally really high skilled players, nearly all the heroes would be equal.

This makes balancing fairly difficult then.

Also I'd think boros would be around [9/6]

I was surprised to see Gara get such a high rating in pub, as i never seen a good Gara, even in a few IH videos I've watched. (except one my friends who taught me how to play him).

[CapricorN]

@itsthatguy

If you get many kills with brine (more than carry) you are doing it wrong. Brine is tank/support, you mustn't get kills with him.

[Itsthatguy]

@itsthatguy

If you get many kills with brine (more than carry) you are doing it wrong. Brine is tank/support, you mustn't get kills with him.

Brine is supose to be tank//support, but i don't find the build to be very effect, (I have yet to see someone play very well with brine, besides just using impale, and pull). He is one of those tank heroes you can easily ignore, since he doesn't pose a threat, unlike mandrake and micro. I always see him get destroyed late game too, since he can't really do anything except impale.) The build i go is more of an Anti-AA Build, primary to destroying AA (with a possible exception to boros if he gets a Spell storm off). The Build also seems to massive counter grunty about 3x better than any other hero too. xD.

 

The Hero you play with doesn't have to play a certain role. (Vorpal is suppose to be a tank, but i use him as a Caster). It isn't suggested, but some times, other builds than the given purpose can be better (or worse). well i guess my point is that, it is working for me and my team. I don't really see how getting a lot of kills is really a bad thing, unless your screwing your allies in the process.