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Rework Tass


Torcas
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Ok i have tried to play tass it does not work. He has the synergy of champ and a UI out of the pit of tartaras. He is so dysfunctional that even with the massive boost to agi heros he is still bad. Please rework him like was done to Tychus he was a great hero who always has required skill, but this is to much.

 

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If you claim otherwise please post how the heck he is supposed to be played. i am honestly stumped.

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He is one of the hardest heroes to play. He is up there with Tosh. However, unlike Tosh, where your goal is to maximize either ult damage (on-hit items) or otherwise build him as you would a normal AA hero (maybe with CoA in there), Tassadar can be built in a lot of ways.

 

-He can be built with some tanky items (SHM) to allow a losing team to come back by initiating for them.

-He can be built with On-hit items and bandit's artifice to deal massive damage with Pyre to tanks, and also permastun people with 3 stun batons at once. Make sure to put a BHM in there regardless.

-He can be built as a caster to maximize shielding and clone lifespan. CDR is nice as it helps bring your clone back. Star's fury works great with Tass' Q.

-He can be build as pure AA (but you have to keep your clone alive for he is sub-par).

 

Q: This is essentially Vergil's slashes but with better scaling and (iirc) slightly worse base damage. When cast, it gives Tass an orb that makes his next attack be replaced with the rake. The rake resets his attack timer so there is no loss of DPS (or very little), and the rake generally does more damage than an autoattack.

 

W: This is a ganking/sustain ability. Don't use it for dealing damage unless you are finishing someone your you have a lot of INT, as you'll just lose damage potential, unless it's very early game. You can also use it on creeps or neutral camps to regain your hp, giving Tass decent sustain (provided he has potions).

 

E: Helps with survivability. Get a point in it early on, ignore it until you've maxed out Q.

 

R: The new Tassadar depends on his ult to be successful. Use it to initiate (use it on squishies though), or to save teammates. Right now you can use it to heal back to full instantly if your clone is full.

 

Always keep your clone around, but don't keep it next to you or in the middle of your team because you will lose track of it and die. Or it'll just die to AoE.

 

 

He's definitely not bad, you'd have to assume you are playing him correctly to say that. If micro is not your thing, I'd recommend Nova, Tychus, or one of the other [Easy] heroes.

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The best way to play Tass, imo, is to go an aa/int hybrid with Star Fury, and int items enabling you to burst down just about anything with your aa. The only heroes that can do anything about tass with this build are cyprus, shadow, boros, and zera, which is not any different from the norm.

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The best way to play Tass, imo, is to go an aa/int hybrid with Star Fury, and int items enabling you to burst down just about anything with your aa. The only heroes that can do anything about tass with this build are cyprus, shadow, boros, and zera, which is not any different from the norm.

 

i do Star fury/ Edge/ pyre and then mostly Electric and the other 2 depends on but: Masamune, Parallax, Stun baton ( just for stun), shadowmourne. Nitrogen retrofit, (slow Q) are always on the way.

 

But yep I agree AA/int is the best 4 me.

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Whale used him twice yesterday, and he went 1-1. The game he lost he built him aa, and the game he won he built int/slight tank and we just used initiation from his clone while he would farm the entire time. But the game he won, the winning team was incredibly far ahead in the early game, one of those heroes being nova which obviously is a pretty hard carry. Also we did have an Jakk summers so idk how the flob we won, and this does not say if tass is viable or not. I would be inclined to say no but more testing is needed imo.

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I am fairly decent at microing the clone. I do have to reset my hotkeys so i cant use item, which really isn't much of a loss due to good passive item options. However none of the people who have responded have suggested a generic method of how to play him. All the suggestions are that he can do anything and heres what should be built. This suggests that tass has NO play style and is literally a generic hero with an incredible micromanagement learning curve.

 

@most of the responses. i play rine king and tosh well. The micro isn't my problem its he cant seem to be defined with the current archetypes. He really isn't a ranged or a melee, his ult is support but his E is an excellent chasing/AA skill, his rake is an excellent aoe AA, his q is spell/support, and finally his passive theoretically gives him halved cds and doubled dmg. Yet with some incredible skills that should need a nerfing due to their great scaling and utility, tass is still not a good hero. Tass and ironically tychus are my worst heros and i am trying to fix this, because i am best at carries/gankers and carries are really buff right now i have been triing to get better with tass.

 

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please continue

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@most of the responses. i play rine king and tosh well. The micro isn't my problem its he cant seem to be defined with the current archetypes. He really isn't a ranged or a melee, his ult is support but his E is an excellent chasing/AA skill, his rake is an excellent aoe AA, his q is spell/support, and finally his passive theoretically gives him halved cds and doubled dmg. Yet with some incredible skills that should need a nerfing due to their great scaling and utility, tass is still not a good hero. Tass and ironically tychus are my worst heros and i am trying to fix this, because i am best at carries/gankers and carries are really buff right now i have been triing to get better with tass.

 

There is no generic way to play tass because you can play him as a lot of different things. Look at Cho'Gath from LoL. Some say he's a tank, but he works great as a hard caster due to his CC, tankiness, and ratios. He is often played as a jungler too utilizing melee AA items. Tank, Mage, and DPS all in the same champ. There is nothing wrong with this.

 

You shouldn't think that a hero has to be "defined with the current archetypes" in order for him to be a good hero. It's best to not force those archetypes for mroe interesting game design.

 

Think about what your team needs. Does your team need CC? Go mid, max W first, and gank top and bottom often. Does your team lack a carry (usually this won't happen since carries require the least skill if their team is any good, imo)? Then build for crits and/or grab a BHM. Does your team need burst? Build INT with a star's fury and play him as a hybrid caster.

 

 

You can't expect to have a hero reworked because you don't know how to play it.

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You can't expect to have a hero reworked because you don't know how to play it.

 

What? WHAT WAS THAT? Sorry I must have misheard, I thought I heard a giant flawless victory mouthing off at me with something he sure as flob could never back up, but it must have just been my imagination. Because after I imagined hearing that, I proceeded to imagine how good it would feel to break that persons flobing spinal cord over my knee. I imagined how my next step is usually to rip out one of the persons flobing ribs and jab it straight through their nose into their brain cavity. I imagined pulling that rib back out, and then brainflobing that dead flawless victory through the new massive hole in his face I created.

But I didn't really hear anything, right? no one would be flobing dumb enough to talk to me like that on here.

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um what?

nvm chob

 

and im asking how the heck you play tass

Im also very certian that most people dont get how to play tass as well

 

Most Tassadars I run into are pretty bad. But a hero is not bad because the players are.

 

A hero having a high skill cap is no reason to dumb the hero down.

 

and im asking how the heck you play tass

 

Call mid at the start, pick up a machete plus energy pots and make a run for the lane so nobody steals it. Make sure to either get the thor or run offensive talents for the veteran bonus.

 

Just last-hit early on because Tassadar isn't a very good laner without his ult. If your opponent is melee, poke him with your clone whenever he tries to last hit. Heal your clone with W, activate Q so it procs on your poke attack, and use E if you're about to take damage so you can migitate some of it. Don't forget to constantly regen your energy with potions. If your enemy is ranged, then just last-hit and drain your opponent with your clone if he harasses you while you run back.

 

You can send your clone out to gank or finish people if the side lanes need help. At level 6, you should probably either gank or attempt to swap your lane opponent into your tower.

 

During teamfights, try to swap squishies over cliffs. Don't swap a tank into the middle of your team. Focus the squishiest person as Tassadar, like most carries, lacks huge sustained damage vs tanks early on.

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I found an item set that works for me when im playing tass, (note this only works for very very late game or your extremely fed) its 2 darwins for tanking, damage and leech, 2 cerebro for int so rake does more damage and cd reduction so you can spam more of your shield skill, lethal barb so you can attack stupidly fast with the cerebro and finally a khali blade for more damage and crit damage. This lets you stomp teams stupidly fast (note all these items costs about 30k mins) so if the game is really balanced and lasts awhile tass can wreck. He is the latest of all carries because he can have the highest of dps of all chars, but requires more time. Typical carries start well carrying at about 30 mins. Tass seems to take triple the time, but im not sure if thats just me.

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@fruit - ok this seems like a solid way to play him. Does this only work in IH though it seems from this tass only works with a moderate amount of teamwork. Second the skill cap isn't my problem with the hero. I want a rework so his usefulness/skillcap is lower. IE you can control the clone separately without deselecting tass. The other thing i would want is that when tass lvls up his clone does too so that his clone is more useful before 18.

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Does this only work in IH though it seems from this tass only works with a moderate amount of teamwork.

 

I don't play inhouses. Tass can carry pub games pretty hard since feeding him is like feeding two heroes--your DPS advantage is insane if you build it.

 

I want a rework so his usefulness/skillcap is lower

 

I don't think there is any way in the starcraft 2 engine for it to be possible to control your clone without deselecting your hero. Not without sacrificing much of the stuff you could otherwise do with the clone. That would result in dumbing him down.

 

I think you're not wording what you're trying to say correctly... lowering skill cap is a bad thing, and so is lowering usefulness...

 

The other thing i would want is that when tass lvls up his clone does too so that his clone is more useful before 18.

 

If you use your clone often it should also be dying a lot. More than you should, at least.

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I want the clone to lvl up because i die the second i level up and/or with the current creep spawn rate i cant re-up my clone before next wave.

reword of previous post

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i want the ratio between usefulness and difficulty to be less.

by this I mean that i would like to see his dysfunctionality to be lessened.

would this drop his skill prereqs - yes, does this have to make him an easy hero no.

Tass' basic concept is only good if used well by a skilled player. I would like a change to how easy it is to access Tass' utlity(IE make the interface more efficent)

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Second if i see you in pub can you play Tass i really want to see him played well.

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I have never had an issue with Tassadar and have recently started playing him often. He is certainly a more difficult hero, but I have found that he is also incredibly powerful. I usually skip out on his slow/leech and focus only his AA abilities. Using the attack speed increase from his passive along with his swipe spell allows for some pretty wicked damage early game, and the ability to rapid-cast his swipe makes him mean with a black-hole magnum or revolver.

 

The only real problem is micro-managing him with his clone, but once you figure out how to use the pre-binded number keys this can be relatively easy to do. That, and I early game I'll need a few energy pots.

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I have never had an issue with Tassadar and have recently started playing him often. He is certainly a more difficult hero, but I have found that he is also incredibly powerful. I usually skip out on his slow/leech and focus only his AA abilities. Using the attack speed increase from his passive along with his swipe spell allows for some pretty wicked damage early game, and the ability to rapid-cast his swipe makes him mean with a black-hole magnum or revolver.

 

The only real problem is micro-managing him with his clone, but once you figure out how to use the pre-binded number keys this can be relatively easy to do. That, and I early game I'll need a few energy pots.

 

I have had a lot of success with the wealth talent and starting with 4 pots + a machete, regardless of what build I'm actually going to do (INT, hybrid).

 

The W is pretty useful, though, I don't see why you wouldn't take at least one point in it for sustain. The slow helps you kill your target if you have your clone slow for you. Plus it helps with ganks, which as Tassadar you should be doing if you are mid.

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Always max w first, its most effective early game, due to high base damage and lack of taser early game. 200 + 60% int spell DPS + towers is no joke. Star fury + int and proc items allow him to stay viable all game long.

 

Agree W is the first to max.

 

Early game is a superstrong slow/leech/Dmg spell which can hold all damage and damage enemy by itself.

 

Late game is just a non-escaping mechanism or in a team fight a way to be though meatshield sometimes.

 

after I max Q before E ( just 1p lvl 4), but it is cause it stacks with Star fury and I get it maxed at 10 when I usually get Star fury's. But E synergizes well with Q ( It gives more Att speed, and Q CD is reduced more Attspeed you have - More hits you do -)

 

Copy health this last patch is nice but dangeorus if you don't use it properly.

 

The way to use is: You click 1 hero ( original) with 100% Hp, you click R then you cas it on clone with 20% Hp Then original and clone will get 20% Hp. If you cast R from clone to Original, in this case, you will get both with 100% HP . I still no manage ok with this but it can help a bit.

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I feel that tassadar's concept is truly epic and neither this or the last version have unlocked his full potential as a hero. The play should be very clone-focused- I just feel that with a Q that is basically passive and with only one clone, tass has so much less potential.

So here's the way it could be IMO-

 

Heroic passive: Hyper Armor

Basically just switches the armor to a heroic active, good early game. Would scale with levels, I'll fill in some stats once I get my hands on the current hyper armor stats.

Q-Takes 250 [+50% AGI] +50 per level health from the nearby heroic unit with the lowest health (could be clone). Kind of like a combination of the current W and the original tass's ulti. Really hard to use, as per tass usual. 40(-5 per lvl) second cooldown.

W-Juxtaposition- Makes a clone, reducing HP and damage by 10%. clone deals 25% weapon damage, can use all tass abilities (q only deals 50% dmg). 1+1 per lvl clones allowed.

E-Warp Flux- switch with a clone after a 2 second channel. 7+1 per level range, 20-2 per level cool down. Using this cloaks tass and all clones for 0.5 sec.

R-Path of Ascension- Reduces HP to 10% of maximum. Vaporizes all nearby clones. Each clone gives 200[+150 per lvl] shields, +5% Movement Speed, and +8 (+3 per level) Weapon Damage for 8 (+2 per level) seconds. Tassadar is immune to debuffs for the duration of this effect. Tassadar's next attack leeches 30(+10 per level)% of tassadar's max hp from the target(dealt as spell damage) in addition to the ordinary weapon damage. As soon as tass goes back over 50% hp the effect ends.

 

Basically fairly similar to original tass. Hyper armor is made a heroic active instead of a buyable ability, because I feel it doesn't have that much value endgame. Q is a bit like maar's leech abil, but it also incorporates an element similar to original tass ulti. Cool down may have to be increased to prevent abuse of it. W makes clones, pretty normal, except clones have full health. However having a full array of clones will make tass quite squishy (as each removed 10% hp), forcing him to rely on the hyper armor or to go a tanky build. E capitalizes on the "illusion" aspect of tass play, obviously clones would be able to use it too to make it even more confusing. R is kind of like a super OP version of hyper armor, allows tass to chase down an enemy, then leech back his lost health. I think especially with the E this would make tass quite interesting, and allow the fun of messing around with 4 hallucinations without the OPness of his original ulti.

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