Executioner's Axe

[thomulf]

Don't come and scream at me that axe is balanced, I know it is, to an extent. However, I think that right now it is detrimental to the game's balance as a whole. Right now, if you are an AGI/STR (or even INT, doesn't really matter) hero, you can just buy (the relatively cheap) Axe to completely destroy any leech-based build. Apart from its unique, Axe is a very generic and forgettable item, which reinforces my conviction that it's just a thinly veiled bandaid fix to the fact leech can be hard to deal with. Therefore, here is my suggestion-

First of all, we would nerf Axe. We will reduce its cost to 1500, reduce the AGI and STR given to 20 (from 30), and change its unique. Instead of denying 90% of Healing for 4 secs, it will deny 25% for 0.5 secs.

Also, we would introduce a new item, that has Executioner's Axe and Phase Cloak as its components-

Death's Scythe (5000 minerals)-

+60 AGI

+30 STR

[Active]- Cloak for 7 seconds, dispels on attack or spellcast. Also, for 3 seconds you steal 50% of enemy Lifesteal in a 6 unit radius Shared cool down with Phase Cloak and Shinobi Style.

If we're gonna have a powerful counter to leech, we might as well make it interesting, as opposed to blatantly obvious. You could use the active in the same way as Cloak and Shinobi, or in the middle of a battle to effectively invalidate the enemy's leech, as whatever bonus they take will also be given to you. I know this may be a challenge in editor terms, please tell me if it's possible- but I think it's a much better system than what Axe currently is.

[residente]

We will ner Axe? We will introduce a new item? Are you a developer and I didn't know it or what?

 

Leech is horrible, and Axe is a very nice item, buy one if your enemy also has one LOL

[thomulf]

I'm sorry, it was poor choice of words. Will edit.

How about actually reading my reasoning and responding to it. Otherwise make a suggestion to remove leech.

[Chimera]

Now that agility heroes are a lot weaker, getting an Axe and Barbed will render them quite useless. Also add in a Shadowmourne and you don't even need good DPS to take them out. I too think it is too powerful, maybe having the effect as an active rather then a passive would be balanced.

[Takeray]

Fast answer: NO.

 

Slow answer:

 

Axe is really effective on fast hits user ( usually Agi and some int/str heros depending building).

 

Axe weakeness the power of the hero bringing him - Mostly there are better options offensively and defensively if we just do a personal view. ( so it is a teamwork item)

 

I am not sure but Parallax remove axe debuff for a second, not a lot, but a little counter ( And yes Parallax sometimes is not the best Agi option I know weakening your str like Axe does).

[thomulf]

........

All you have done is restate that Axe is a strong counter to leech, but will make you weaker against non leech heroes, so basically once against it's just a pointless staple count to leech that adds nothing else to the game- does nobody else think this is wrong? honestly.

[Takeray]

........

All you have done is restate that Axe is a strong counter to leech, but will make you weaker against non leech heroes, so basically once against it's just a pointless staple count to leech that adds nothing else to the game- does nobody else think this is wrong? honestly.

 

Yep.

 

Axe is a main counter to leech. but not total since it not avoid all leech.

 

It won't make u weaker against non leech heros. It means you will be weaker (hitting less damage) vs anything if you could buy anything else, but you and your team get stronger cause u are using an specific counter.

[Ironsights]

The counter you offer is worse than axe.

 

Often times, especially as non dps heroes, you attack too slow for the .5 debuff to be worth it, yet you still HAVE to shut down enemy leech.

 

that is why axe is like it is.

 

If you want to nerf AXE, you have to nerf LEECH even harder or provide a much more effective way to shut down leech:

 

say, nerf axe as you mentioned, then make deaths sythe something more like

active: gain cloaking and + 15% move speed for 10 seconds. Dispells on attack

passive: reduce enemy lifesteal near you (10 units) by 80%

 

This makes the weilder a true team member, since they are shutting down all nearby leech, while still giving the user a reason to have it other than leech.

 

Or, you know, remove the axe entirely and leech too. Leech lets glass cannons be all cannon and no glass anyway, it seems inappropriate in the latest version of this game, at least coming from items. Most leech items offer too much in terms of DPS boosts aswell, encouraging players to get max DPS and max leech: you should have to choose your focus: lots of leech or lots of damage, not both at the same time.

[thomulf]

Of course the counter I offer is worse! put yourself in the shoes of the leeching player- is it fair that an enemy can simply buy an item that costs 2400 to end you completely?

Is there a staple counter to tanky STR? hard-nuking INT? so why,why,why, is there a cheap, unstoppable counter to AGI leech?

Pyre, other damage items, and spell resist, all don't do nearly as much to counter STR or INT builds as Axe counters leech builds. It needs a nerf in this respect, or you need to increase its cost to 4K plus.

 

The issue is that it's only one item, and not a build, that counters the leech build.

The issue is that people just say "buy axe" and shut down any thread that suggests balancing leech.

This is a clear example of bad development/balancing.

[Brewnor]

Ya'll can't seriously think that any item that shuts down all leech in a 10-unit radius is balanced?

 

It would be mandatory item late game in every single competitive game. Tank on both teams would HAVE to carry on and pop for all team battles.

 

If the issue is that leech is OP (and for many chars, it is), then ought to look at balancing leech or adding other more creative counters to leech. AOE anti-leech is a ridiculous approach.

 

I AM curious as to why there are no heros in game that have innate anti-leech abilities. Just about everything else in the game has some form of hard character counter. Leech does not.

[Takeray]

Of course the counter I offer is worse! put yourself in the shoes of the leeching player- is it fair that an enemy can simply buy an item that costs 2400 to end you completely?

Is there a staple counter to tanky STR? hard-nuking INT? so why,why,why, is there a cheap, unstoppable counter to AGI leech?

Pyre, other damage items, and spell resist, all don't do nearly as much to counter STR or INT builds as Axe counters leech builds. It needs a nerf in this respect, or you need to increase its cost to 4K plus.

 

The issue is that it's only one item, and not a build, that counters the leech build.

The issue is that people just say "buy axe" and shut down any thread that suggests balancing leech.

This is a clear example of bad development/balancing.

 

Leeching style is just an add and style of an AGI carry. You are not forced to abuse ( though it is always a good choice getting a bit) leeching. In this case Axe works perfectly like spell resist works armor works etc. You can shrapnel him btw too.

 

Axe don't end an AGI carry. just get him out of Godmode several times.

[Analog]

Hold up, so you all telling me than an item that is designed to stop unkillable leeching dps heroes is to OP? yeah,lets get rid of it and let all dps heroes with 400% attack speed sit there and fight for hours being able to outleech all str and int heroes of course why not! :) because you know, spell buffer doesnt counter int heroes at all and pyre doesnt counter tanks at all you know..balanced! :)

[Ironsights]

Of course the counter I offer is worse! put yourself in the shoes of the leeching player- is it fair that an enemy can simply buy an item that costs 2400 to end you completely?

Is there a staple counter to tanky STR? hard-nuking INT? so why,why,why, is there a cheap, unstoppable counter to AGI leech?

Pyre, other damage items, and spell resist, all don't do nearly as much to counter STR or INT builds as Axe counters leech builds. It needs a nerf in this respect, or you need to increase its cost to 4K plus.

 

The issue is that it's only one item, and not a build, that counters the leech build.

The issue is that people just say "buy axe" and shut down any thread that suggests balancing leech.

This is a clear example of bad development/balancing.

 

ummm...

 

All styles in this game have counter items, and usually multiple of them. Leech is the only one with ONE effective counter, and DPS heroes abuse the hell out of it in order to remove the glass from the cannon. Its absurd.

 

Leech DOES need balancing, but that doesn't mean other styles aren't hard countered by items.

 

Beast mode tanks? Pyre, Shard, Gravity's Edge,

Burst Casters? Buffer, Taser, paralax

DoTs casters? Paralax, buffer, taser

DPS? Electric mantle, Barbed plating, shrapnel cloak

DPS Leech? Axe

 

See the problem? Any other play style has multiple counters to it, leech has only one. the answer is not to nerf that one, but to add MORE counters.

[BestZeratul]

Don't come and scream at me that axe is balanced, I know it is, to an extent. However, I think that right now it is detrimental to the game's balance as a whole. Right now, if you are an AGI/STR (or even INT, doesn't really matter) hero, you can just buy (the relatively cheap) Axe to completely destroy any leech-based build.

 

I don't appreciate the face. That's totally not appropriate. I didn't even make that outrageous of a claim, but you definitely disrespected me, and the entire scientific community on that one. I don't care if you just know that much about the subject, or you are just ignorant to the facts that are in the field that I am an expert on, but come on. Don't bullshap the fact that I know more about this than you do. Just come straight and say you don't know what you're talking about, and we'll be cool. Seriously? This is flobing bullshap, you shouldn't get so riled up about such trivial things, but if you do, you're a flobing flawless victory. Go home and make love to your flobing real doll. You don't know shap about what we're talking about and you need to flobing leave this thread right now. Buy a bullet and rent a gun, because sir, you are finished in life.

[JustZerO]

Axe was not mainly designed to be an item for agi heroes to counter another agi hero. it was also designed for heroes that use barbed plating and want to counter the leech of the enemy, so that barbed's effect really hits the enemy.

 

And another thing: Some items are mainly bought because of their purpose, not because of their stats at first. examples are: impact dial (CC), Axe (anti leech), phase cloak (for DARPA for example), stun baton (shadow/toxi for stun), pulse hammer (many dps for slow), explosive retrofit (farming), not to forget Coat of Arms!

 

i think axe is completely fine, as you already said as well. so i don't really understand why you want to change something? but well, sometimes the devs also change stuff that was fine imo, so maybe you are right, lol

[thomulf]

I don't appreciate the face. That's totally not appropriate. I didn't even make that outrageous of a claim, but you definitely disrespected me, and the entire scientific community on that one. I don't care if you just know that much about the subject, or you are just ignorant to the facts that are in the field that I am an expert on, but come on. Don't bullshap the fact that I know more about this than you do. Just come straight and say you don't know what you're talking about, and we'll be cool. Seriously? This is flobing bullshap, you shouldn't get so riled up about such trivial things, but if you do, you're a flobing flawless victory. Go home and make love to your flobing real doll. You don't know shap about what we're talking about and you need to flobing leave this thread right now. Buy a bullet and rent a gun, because sir, you are finished in life.

um... hello? lol

@JustZero- The thing is it's just a patchwork fix, and that leech needs a nerf. Once you balance axe, then we can convince these n00bsers to balance leech. Also I think my item idea could end up being interesting. If you don't believe axe is OP, then why do people buy it endgame, taking up a slot they could use for an item twice the cost? why, if there's 2+ leechers in a game, does it let you recover even if you're miles behind?

[Crimson]

As in terms of your item i dont think it be much help as a active to counter leech loss the leech lost is to low an to short also I fine point cloak less for it

 

I would think if any thing add a def item to counter leech abit Call it

 

Unforgiven Deaths Cloak

-cost 5000 - 5600 that way its up there with hight end leech items such as Darwin

-items need - Pneumatized Cloak -Emerald Mox - 2Cybernetic Implants

- stats

hp 150

35 str

70 agi

-when attack by enemy they lose 30% leech per hit for 1 to 1.5 secs for a max stack 3

or 40% leech per hit for 2 secs for a max stack 2

also add if exe ax an this was used they share leech lost so they dont over stack on the hero

[doxthefox]

If you get an Executioner's Axe plus Barbed plating on a tank vs AA with lifesteal like pub favorite shadow you can watch him zig zag his way to the pool. Too bad you can't mossberg the passive away. I don't think there is an answer to the combination of these two items atm for AA characters. In another case I recall getting these two on grunty the other day and followed up with an organic for instant HP (I know i know, eletric mantle is better, but they went pure crit/damage build, no pyre so w/e) and lethal barb/khy absorber for AS/DMG/EN REG. Before I could even get my third shotgun off, the shadow/nova died to themselves.