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Patch 1.48 Constructive Criticism


Wrath

  

27 members have voted

  1. 1. Do creeps spawn too fast this version?

    • Yes
      16
    • No
      11
  2. 2. Do creeps give too little experience this version?

    • Yes
      12
    • No
      15


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Here's a thread of constructive criticism based on my own experience as well as several others' both from Mumble and the Aeon of Storms chat channel.

 

 

 

Creep Spawn Rate

 

Lane creeps now spawn every 35 seconds, down from 60 seconds. This change was made to speed up the game, and not leave so much time inbetween creep waves, and it is perhaps serving that purpose a little too well. It is now relatively impossible to farm neutral creeps inbetween creep waves, and creep pileups combined with timed pushes make it too easy to take towers. I suggest changing the creep spawn rate from 35 seconds back up to 45 seconds, a more balanced change from 60 seconds.

 

Creep Experience

 

I have noticed, as have many others, that leveling feels a lot slower than in the previous version. It is possible that the creep experience rewards were lowered disproportionately more than the creep spawn rates. This makes the game actually feel a lot slower, contrary to the purpose of the increased creep spawn rate. It also makes jungling a lot more mandatory, as it nets your team more experience. For these reasons, I suggest increasing the creep experience a little compared to what it is now.

 

Jungling

 

With the lane creep experience so much lower, jungling has now become a somewhat mandatory thing (which is not good). Jungling provides more experience to both the second solo lane as well as the jungler, since the neutral creeps did not receive an experience nerf. The fast creep spawn rate also gives junglers the advantage as far as map control goes, pinning people to their lanes and giving the jungler more opportunity to gank and join to push a tower. Also, people in lanes no longer have time to take neutral creeps, leaving them all free for junglers. All of these are reasons why the creep changes need to be rebalanced.

 

Removal of Transporter

 

I believe that the removal of Transporter was a very good thing. It was, as the developers said, a mandatory item -- you had to carry it most of the game. I found myself carrying 3 Transporters at a time early game. Without Transporter, teams have to actually rely on map awareness and control to win lanes, rather than mass Transporter use as a crutch. The new Return and Teleport talents, as well as the variety of Movement Speed talents, all provide suitable replacements.

 

On the other hand, while the creep spawn rate is so fast, the lack of a Transporter makes it too easy to lose a lane early game. Your tower will get pushed by creep wave pileups, and the enemy heroes will finally have the opportunity to farm neutral creeps, further extending their lead. Removing Transporter was a good idea, but also increasing the creep spawn rate by so much is a bad combination.

 

 

 

To sum it up, please:

  • Reduce creep spawn rate from 35 to 45 seconds.
  • Increase the experience reward of lane creeps.

Thanks! I look forward to hearing everybody else's input.

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Creep Spawn Rate

 

Lane creeps now spawn every 35 seconds, down from 60 seconds. This change was made to speed up the game, and not leave so much time inbetween creep waves, and it is perhaps serving that purpose a little too well. It is now relatively impossible to farm neutral creeps inbetween creep waves, and creep pileups combined with timed pushes make it too easy to take towers. I suggest changing the creep spawn rate from 35 seconds back up to 45 seconds, a more balanced change from 60 seconds.

 

 

Anything higher than 35 seconds is unlikely to accomplish the goal of the creep change, which is, as I understand it, to make it more costly to leave your lane and to make it possible for creeps to snowball. I think that most of us who had been beta testing variations of this particular change were fairly happy with what ended up being published.

 

 

Creep Experience

 

I have noticed, as have many others, that leveling feels a lot slower than in the previous version. It is possible that the creep experience rewards were lowered disproportionately more than the creep spawn rates. This makes the game actually feel a lot slower, contrary to the purpose of the increased creep spawn rate. It also makes jungling a lot more mandatory, as it nets your team more experience. For these reasons, I suggest increasing the creep experience a little compared to what it is now.

 

 

I believe that creep experience was changed proportionally, however, you probably feel like you level up slower becaue it's now more costly to leave the wave to kill neutral creeps (so you either forgo the experience from your wave to farm neutrals, or you don't farm neutrals--either way, you gain experience at a slower rate). However, I like the change for its strategic value, as you should incur some cost for leaving your lane.

 

 

Jungling

 

With the lane creep experience so much lower, jungling has now become a somewhat mandatory thing (which is not good). Jungling provides more experience to both the second solo lane as well as the jungler, since the neutral creeps did not receive an experience nerf. The fast creep spawn rate also gives junglers the advantage as far as map control goes, pinning people to their lanes and giving the jungler more opportunity to gank and join to push a tower. Also, people in lanes no longer have time to take neutral creeps, leaving them all free for junglers. All of these are reasons why the creep changes need to be rebalanced.

 

 

I disagree that jungling is now mandatory. Yes, jungling is more beneficial because it's more costly for non-junglers to farm neutrals (meaning that a jungler can increase the net experience for his team), however, jungling is still costly. For example, the additional solo lane still has to be able to hold the lane against two heroes, which is now more difficult since creeps can snowball. Also, ganking is now actually more difficult, as creeps are more likely to be present when the gank occurs (and ganking is more costly for a non-jungler).

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WELL. After playing several pub games, i've found that im enjoying the game alot more. Im using more APM getting last hits and it feels good. Much easier to last hit now since theres a constant flow and rhythm.

Anything higher than 35 seconds is unlikely to accomplish the goal of the creep change, which is, as I understand it, to make it more costly to leave your lane and to make it possible for creeps to snowball. I think that most of us who had been beta testing variations of this particular change were fairly happy with what ended up being published.

 

 

 

I believe that creep experience was changed proportionally, however, you probably feel like you level up slower becaue it's now more costly to leave the wave to kill neutral creeps (so you either forgo the experience from your wave to farm neutrals, or you don't farm neutrals--either way, you gain experience at a slower rate). However, I like the change for its strategic value, as you should incur some cost for leaving your lane.

 

 

 

I disagree that jungling is now mandatory. Yes, jungling is more beneficial because it's more costly for non-junglers to farm neutrals (meaning that a jungler can increase the net experience for his team), however, jungling is still costly. For example, the additional solo lane still has to be able to hold the lane against two heroes, which is now more difficult since creeps can snowball. Also, ganking is now actually more difficult, as creeps are more likely to be present when the gank occurs (and ganking is more costly for a non-jungler).

Creeps actually do pretty much nothing if you maneuver yourself properly. You wait for the victim to go beyond a certain boundary before you gank, not dependant on the amount of creeps present really.

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WELL. After playing several pub games, i've found that im enjoying the game alot more. Im using more APM getting last hits and it feels good. Much easier to last hit now since theres a constant flow and rhythm.

Creeps actually do pretty much nothing if you maneuver yourself properly. You wait for the victim to go beyond a certain boundary before you gank, not dependant on the amount of creeps present really.

 

Sounds like you are saying that your enemy needs to overextend... Overextending has always exposed you to ganks. However, with the faster creep spawn, you are more likely to have creep in the lane which will help defend you against a gank as long as you don't overextend (also, the creeps are more likely to give you vision of some of the previous routes that could be used for ganking, making it more likely that you will see the gank coming).

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i think it's boring that it seems more viable to jungle than to lane (i haven't done extensive testing to determine if this is true, it's just my impression so far), and that lane creep exp should be raised a bit.

 

If that were the case I agree that it would be a problem, however, I believe that a good jungler will be slightly behind a solo lane (which seems about right).

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