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Petition to change creep waves in Beta!


Skydie
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Post Yes or words to that effect to join in my petition to to change creep system in beta.

 

1) Skydie

2)Notperfect

3)Residente

4)Zero

5)Hogwarts

6)Strike

7)JustEnergy

8)Dox

9)FruitNinja

9)Firnefex

10)Whitetrash

11)Allcaps

12)Akanna

13)Crazysoldier

14)Quistmann

15)DarkSniper

16)zeeeend

17)caremate

 

 

Blurb: New creep system sucks. Creep come out too fast inherently aiding certain heroes, Vergil/Boros/Shadow for example. Also moving out of lanes for quick ganks (such as in IH games) is more punishing. So no it doesn't really increase the speed of the game as people spend longer laning and have to balance missing a creep wave.

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eko wants the creeps to have momentum, but what happens is you get a creep wave that is stack so hard it has 3-4 tanks and easily 15+ stalker / hydra and un godly amount of roach / zlot,

 

the biggest problem i see is, mid/ late game players ignore side lanes and group up for team fights, team fight is done, toss side wins the team fight lost 1 zerg lost 3-4 now its 4v1-2 and toss try to take this opportunity to push into the base or take levi , then looks at mini map to see a massive blob running at your towers, toss needs to send back 1-2 players to deal with the mass creep army, " it literally looks like a ladder game the amount of creeps that build up" and it feels counter productive, needing to run back to defend the base after you just worked hard for this small window to deal damage to the others towers/ barracks

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eko wants the creeps to have momentum, but what happens is you get a creep wave that is stack so hard it has 3-4 tanks and easily 15+ stalker / hydra and un godly amount of roach / zlot,

 

the biggest problem i see is, mid/ late game players ignore side lanes and group up for team fights, team fight is done, toss side wins the team fight lost 1 zerg lost 3-4 now its 4v1-2 and toss try to take this opportunity to push into the base or take levi , then looks at mini map to see a massive blob running at your towers, toss needs to send back 1-2 players to deal with the mass creep army, " it literally looks like a ladder game the amount of creeps that build up" and it feels counter productive, needing to run back to defend the base after you just worked hard for this small window to deal damage to the others towers/ barracks

 

exactly what I thought was wrong with their logic but not sure why they don't see that yet...

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I think that the problem out so fast, is for example Boros in the lines you can never use your ulti, since it sticks to several target independent, if there are creeps you may not kill. If they come out fast would have to modify the ulti of boros, or stay useless in the next patch.

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I think ekco tried to make it like LoL, but overdid it... You never get 3-4 siege creep armies in LoL. Creeps and towers are also pretty tanky in AoS.

 

I think it just needs tweaking, as non-static creep waves would make the game more interesting (denying will allow you to push your own creeps back). Remember, it doesn't have to just be either this or the old way. That's a false dichotomy.

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As i have mentioned before... the devs don't seem to find that middle ground. With the creep machanics of beta i feel the game becomes very one sided & neutral creeps have become almost useless now with the constant barage of creeps hitting.

 

The way i see it, if you're pushing a lane (lets say Protos top), by the time you got to Z1 the next wave of zerg is there already & this "creep wave stacking" has become nullified, the only way a creep wave or creep waves stacks is by leaving the creep wave alone & letting it do it's own thing & by doing so you essentually create a monster wave that if left alone can wipe out both T1 & 2 towers (if late enough T3 towers too), which kinda defeats the purpose of using creeps to help HEROS defeat towers. I always thought it was the goal of the heros to knock down towers (apart from the team play aspect), not the creep. Now creep can simply take out towers in such a short period of time with little to no help from any heros being anywhere close to the combat zone taking all the fun out of pushing said lane to get to the squishy center. If any of this makes sense!?

 

Let me try this another way, lets say you're Zerg, you've pushed bot all the way back to protoss T3 & leave the lane to go help in top lane so that you can do the same thing. By the time you've gotten to T3 top lane (protoss), the creep & lane you worked so hard on getting to T3 bot (protoss) has pushed it's way all the way back to you T1 bot & has distroyed it already with 3 tanks & a few melee & ranged creep left they start to stack again (because of the tanks dps), making another death ball on thier way to your T2 bot. Now you decide mid needs a beating so you leave top (& don't even bother stopping bot) to go help take out middle, you push mid down to T3 (protoss) & want to hit levi... Oh wait, sorry for you, you might have won every single team fight & knocked all thier towers down to T3 but because of your negligence in the top & bottom lanes, your bottom lanes T3 has fallen (with absolutely no help from the enemy heros because they've been defending your pushes the whole time) & your T2 top is about to fall too. Meaning the defending team just needs to sit back & watch how they walk straight into your main with little to no effort from thier side & only the new creep machanics to blame.

 

I can see team fights becoming a 3v5 ordeal, along with pub games becoming even more of a FFA instead of a team based game (which is what AoS was suppose to be in the first place). Making IH the ONLY way you can get into some sort of team invironment, which for me anyway, will take all the fun out of the game. I'm yet to join an IH where a game doesn't take shorter than 15 minutes to start 1 game.

 

I still think changing the dynamics of creep waves in such a drastic manner will create more problems than solve them, especially if you just shove new creep machinics into the mix without sorting out all of the flaws that they will inherently come out with. Tweak things, refine things & smooth things out before you just shove them in people faces & shout, figure it out yourself, this is the way i will do it.

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I think that the problem out so fast, is for example Boros in the lines you can never use your ulti, since it sticks to several target independent, if there are creeps you may not kill. If they come out fast would have to modify the ulti of boros, or stay useless in the next patch.

 

You're missing the flip side, since nearly everyone builds crit boros, with cerebrus(forget spelling and don't feel like looking it up so I'll just keep referring to it incorrectly) your ult would instantly recharge on demand in such large waves (which is lame)

 

So if anything cerebrus will need another nerf

But I doubt boro will change (even though his ult is completely OP simply because he is pretty much immune to everything during it)

We will never be that lucky

 

Hell I'd be happy if they just removed debuff immunity from his SS

Sure his ult will still pick you off, but at least then you'd have options to defend yourself on his approach (like stun) and chars like vergil could cut his attack down to size

 

cerebrus + boros = cereboros - all the fearsome skill of spamming SS and Ult all game

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lies we ganked the shap out of people last night crazy... but maybe thats just cuz our rancor raynor mid is op ^_^ u can leave the lane but u have to push it first

The only viable push to any lane is to cripple the offensive creep wave by 1 unit & you'll already see a domino effect happening which is retarded... before it use to be the domino effect on heros... now it's become a domino effect on creep.

 

Seriously, if you want to test the beta without any players & simply do it by yourself, login as guest & go to arcade, go to the latest download of the beta & test it, you'll see how effective it really is when you neglect a lane for X amount of time & because a tower can change the scale so much in the beginning... but create enough of a domino effect (as i mentioned before in this thread), you'll see how becoming offensive means you have to become defensive & vica versa. Let me explain.... To push a lane hard so that you effectively hit both T1 & T2 in the same wave simpley means you kill 2 creep & neglect that lane for 1 to 3 waves & you have a stacking creep that can simply wipe out a T1 tower with little help from the hero = flawed! Now on the flip side, if you push a lane with you actually being there, you'll see how ineffective that will be... talk about a flucked up concept! Seriously, if this sort of implementation is to occur, the pure dynamics of it in itself shouldn't stack as fast as what they do, meaning i'm sure you'd reach a balance if you maybe increase the spawn time of creeps to either 40s or 45 s, meaning they'd still stack unattended but with not as much consequence as it is now, meaning towers still have a good chance of fighting back said wave before it becomes unmanagable... meaning if waves have been left for long enough, the constant bashing on the tower will bring it down... not like it was when i tested it in the sense that the creep will take down the tower with the tower doing hardly any damage to the wave that has formed.

 

I liked the changes of the game before the new creep wave was implemented but after it was implemented it changed the game so much that anyone with khaydrian obsorber is able to sustain himself almost indefenitly. Let alone any hero with AoE can decimate a creep wave to nothingness... the pure unbalanced issues this brings to the game is rediculous. Seriously, sort out the hero problems before implementing something of this scale into the game so that you know that the game (beta) won't be released with so many flaws in concept.

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