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Nerizam - Either make the counters more obvious, or nerf


ComeAtMeBro
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http://drop.sc/265594 {Replay} (1 hour, can skip to 40 mins]

 

I honestly don't know what i was supposed to do in this game,

 

2vs2, 1 newbie, 1 kill 15 deaths, Me, Nova, Teammate, Micro

 

and then Nerazim, who was lagging so hard I couldn't click on him to do anything. Please jusitfy what i should have done in this replay, or Aeon of storms simply ins't a game worth continuing spending my time on.

 

thanks guys, (great game, apart from one or two annoying heros)

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That's why you have to burst damage him. Preferably with spell damage to avoid his W reducing attack damage. Taser can also do wonders if he did not go AA(which most don't). However he is receiving a nerf to his W, items will no longer procure the effect such as Super Heated Mantle so AA heroes will be slightly better off against him.

 

The only burst hero you play is Nova and Cain. With Cain I believe his E might stop you're ultimate attacks or at least they'll miss if they go when he is under the effects of evasion. With Nova he can easily lower your weapon damage, run away with his E and you'll miss you're shots, or he'll kill you because Nova is squishy and Vergil can be very bursty.

 

Try a better spell burst hero like Cyprus or a character with stun like Tosh.

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Vergil is like a bad version of cyprus that counters AA heroes better, and with somewhat better splash.

 

No nerf needed. Half of his skills are primarily for beating AA heroes, his Q has a cast time, and his ult is on a huge cooldown, so if you dodge it, he just lost most of his damage.

 

It sounds like Vergil just carried a game... props to him.

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vergil is damn strong if he has his abilities ready. but after casting them, he is almost useless. i didn't watch the replay, but i think your problem was not that he was too strong in offensive, it was more that after casting his spells, you weren't able to catch him, right? This is a problem i mentioned a couple of times. His escaping mechanism is way too effective, a good vergil player manages to almost never die due to his blink, and this is making him almost invulnerable to many heroes.

With nova you could use your ulti on him, but i often saw vergil escaping from nova's ulti with his blink. Main problem for me is that it is so damn hard to catch a good vergil player, his damage output seems not to be a problem for me.

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Most people use terrrrrrible builds with Vergil so it is no wonder many would not put him in the OP category as I would. It is so annoying to have him with a shrink ray meleeing you as a DPS hero because you essentially do next to no damage to him. His skills don't scale terribly well with intelligence, but his weapon damage debuff is super OP with superheated on him (and for 1v1 the shrink ray is even nastier). All you need on him is 3 tanky items, pyre, shrink ray, and BHM (your BHM attacks won't do a ton of damage per strike but in aggregate the damage will load up with the spamming of his skills).

 

Last time I played him I didn't even have to try hard and basically could solo an entire team (ended up like 25-2 or something like that). He also does not take much skill, just the right build.

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Most people use terrrrrrible builds with Vergil so it is no wonder many would not put him in the OP category as I would. It is so annoying to have him with a shrink ray meleeing you as a DPS hero because you essentially do next to no damage to him. His skills don't scale terribly well with intelligence, but his weapon damage debuff is super OP with superheated on him (and for 1v1 the shrink ray is even nastier). All you need on him is 3 tanky items, pyre, shrink ray, and BHM (your BHM attacks won't do a ton of damage per strike but in aggregate the damage will load up with the spamming of his skills).

 

Last time I played him I didn't even have to try hard and basically could solo an entire team (ended up like 25-2 or something like that). He also does not take much skill, just the right build.

It seems like your build is terrible actually (not counting SHM). Designed for 1v1 situation instead 5v5. There is no hero which can solo entire team unless enemy team is dumb. Vergil should be played as caster and if u still thinks your build is better go inh and prove it but we already know u wont do that, isn't? Only very, very late game Vergil as caster isn't so strong as he was in mid-late game. Btw. in beta SHM on Vergil doesn't reduce weapon damage to nearby enemies anymore.

 

Anyway good counter to Vergil is LZ as his ulti can negate a lots of Vergil ulti damage. If LZ has warp shard Vergil may have problem with running away from him, especially if LZ has Taser as well. Very, very late game Vergil shouldn't be a big problem as it is when dps carries are shinning, and should take vergil down very fast even if he is builded as tank...

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It seems like your build is terrible actually (not counting SHM). Designed for 1v1 situation instead 5v5. There is no hero which can solo entire team unless enemy team is dumb. Vergil should be played as caster and if u still thinks your build is better go inh and prove it but we already know u wont do that, isn't? Only very, very late game Vergil as caster isn't so strong as he was in mid-late game. Btw. in beta SHM on Vergil doesn't reduce weapon damage to nearby enemies anymore.

 

Anyway good counter to Vergil is LZ as his ulti can negate a lots of Vergil ulti damage. If LZ has warp shard Vergil may have problem with running away from him, especially if LZ has Taser as well. Very, very late game Vergil shouldn't be a big problem as it is when dps carries are shinning, and should take vergil down very fast even if he is builded as tank...

 

Vergil played as a hard caster is just terrrrrrrible as his skills simply do not scale very well with intelligence. Also since he is melee and will be taking a lot of damage, he needs to be tanky or else he will die before he can do much more than minorly injure the other team with his ultimate and spam a few Q's.

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Wait wait wait. This whole thread is ACTUALLY about Geminis. Boros? Oh boy haha...

 

In that case, when he ulties you can lockbox yourself or taser him before he can Ulti and ultimate him back and KO him. Also kite him if you can since he's melee. Warp Shard may also save you if you get far enough from him.

 

If you're playing a tankier hero a Barbed Plating will help return damage during his ultimate.

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Both Geminuses scale extremely well with item advantages and become hyper-carries as the game goes on. Both are melee so you can send a caster who can bully them out of their lane like Dustin, Erekul, or maybe Jakk. Dustin is my favorite because his laser goes right through Boros' spell storm and he has 6 range so Boros will never be getting any farm without losing a ton of health in trades, although Dustin might be better suited to Mid lane (he usually goes on the short lane whenever I see him).

 

Vergil is a hard counter to Shadow (none of his skills are directly targeted) and Vergil is well-suited for the long lane, so if their Geminus is on your long lane then you should go with Vergil, although Dustin is the only caster I know that can bully a Boros before getting a gravity edge. Dustin isn't that bad in the long lane, but he is susceptible to ganks so you need a good mid who will call mia's. You might also consider Cain since he can freeze chasers and his laning is exceptional against everyone.

 

Balrog is a good early game hero that might be able to shut a shadow or boros down with superior early-game stats.

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Trololo lovol everyrhing u post is so wrong xD vergil hard caster ftw

 

That may be the popular way people play him, but in my opinion it is rather suboptimal for fairly easy reasons once you look at the scaling of his skills and how they operate. There was once a time when Vergil's abilities were ridiculously overpowered so going pure int could get you tons of kills, but his abilities have been nerfed quite a bit and even though he is still very strong, he does not scale well enough with intelligence to warrant putting lots of it on him, relative to what he can accomplish with different items.

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That may be the popular way people play him, but in my opinion it is rather suboptimal for fairly easy reasons once you look at the scaling of his skills and how they operate. There was once a time when Vergil's abilities were ridiculously overpowered so going pure int could get you tons of kills, but his abilities have been nerfed quite a bit and even though he is still very strong, he does not scale well enough with intelligence to warrant putting lots of it on him, relative to what he can accomplish with different items.

 

even with spell buffen on your enemy team, a int vergil in a teamfight can melt down more than 60% of the team hp, he will melt down any kind of carry even if he has more than 2k hp, and he will rape casters his spells scale poorly with int, but thats why he need tons and tons of int, when he has like 600 int he can also has more than 3k hp just with ihan stacked, yamato, argus, and some situational item like e.mantle, heated mantle or parallax

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