lOvOl Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Many heroes that are great in organized play are not as good in disorganized play and vice versa. In my experience many casters (with a few exceptions) are rather underpowered in pub play because casters only really shine if they can concentrate fire on an individual hero to kill that hero immediately, while assassin heroes obviously desire to split teams up so they can kill enemies one by one. One hero that is very hard to play in pub is Jackson, simply because he has a DPS cap and he doesn't scale as well with intelligence as many other caster heroes. My solution to building him is to go pure tank with him as my only int items are nitrogen refit and ihan crystal. I play him to setup kills for my team with his incredible slow aura from superheated and nitrogen refit and his W, as well as locking a hero down for range with his beam. And of course silencing and clustering an entire enemy team will setup monster kills for new user Kerrigans on your team who you can coach to buy the right items. Electric Mantle and Barbed Plating also give you pretty good protection against AA heroes, but it is not like you will ever kill a Drake all on your own. Nevertheless, Jackson is just really hard because you can't count on someone else to tank for you as Jackson is often a secondary initiator, usually with a warp shard/small hadron collider. And due to the mechanics of his beam, getting executioner's axe to disable massive lifesteal from a Shadow or Zera or Nova won't work right so if your team stinks too bad or else has all cowards or AA heroes who never by a pyre, there is not much you can do as Jackson, even though his utility is arguably the best in the game. Another hero that really has problems in disorganized games is Dustin. Even if you build him full int, his burst just is not good enough and reliably enough to finish many heroes off before they counter you. And of course taser really makes Dustin cry. Furthermore, since reliable tanks are far and few between in disorganized play, you need to build him somewhat tanky to address the fact he is one of the most vulnerable casters at close range in the game. For me, I get a dark steel titan because it counters force of entropy which if you get tagged with by an enemy hero without DST to cancel it, then you are pretty much dead. He also always runs out of mana even with a crapload of intelligence, so rationing his mana is usually a good idea. He is also a very poor farmer so I usually get a superheated mantle on him early just for that purpose as his area denial drone over a creep wave with superheated mantle is an efficient way to farm with him. Once you fill out your inventory you can sell your superheated if you wish to and there is no Bio in the game anymore, though I usually keep it around as it really helps with pushing lanes. There are other ones that feel kinda weak at times, but these two heroes especially are the hardest to get wins with for me in terms of being able to carry the team and win in spite of the rest of my allies not being very experienced at the game. Which heroes do you all think are the hardest to play in pub games? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revolution Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Well jackson is a team hero. He is an initiation hero. I wouldn't say he's hard in pubs, but if you're looking for kills then he isn't for you. With the current popularity with offense talents Brawler noms all day in pubs. His burst is simply ridiculous. LiquidDog 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sogeking Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Boros is by far the most difficult hero to play in pub games, and mad props to anyone who does. The skill level required to use this hero is ungodly, his W is arguably the most difficult skill shot in the game and it costs a lot of mana. His ultimate is only useful if you're a very experienced player and know the exact time to throw it on someone, and he's an AGI hero so he's very vulnerable to spellcasters and the like. I never play Boros in pubs because I know it's just asking to get raped, but usually there is at least one AMAZING player in every game who does dare to pick Boros, and since only really elite players pick him, they end up doing well. This is a shout out to all the courageous Boros players who intentionally pick an underpowered pub hero to give the other side a chance! Mad props. ChronicSwa, akanna, Fumbles and 6 others 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revolution Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 ^ The rage is strong with this one D: theseusss why haven't you been on mumble in like forever??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sogeking Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Horrible internet bandwidth at the moment, I want to play but right now the best I can do is watch replays... Switching providers soon and I will be back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTpErFecT Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Dustin?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sogeking Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Cow is the hero I see least in pubs. I've seen various players (Maem) do extraordinarily well with Dustin in pubs (Rakura in house) regardless of the skill level of his teammates. I'm not saying Cow in underpowered, or weak, or whatever, but just that he is probably the hardest to do well with right now if your teammates are bad. He sets up epic ganks and kills and if his team is too dumb (or more usually, scared) to take advantage of his setups it puts him in a bad place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustZerO Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 If you would say Cow is UP, i would totally agree with you ;-) i played a couple of pub games with cow in the last days, and he scales so badly into the late game, his skills are only useful if you have a team that could take advantage of them. but in inh, nobody plays him because he is just too weak atm. LiquidDog 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sogeking Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Well I didn't want to come out and say he is UP, because I don't like those types of claims, but yeah, I'd sa that Cow probably is on the weaker end of the spectrum at this time, and that this is reflected in the difficulty of play when choosing him for a public game, where the odds that your team will be good enough to take advantage of his skillset are low Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oomph Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 I've seen Jackson raping everyone in pubs, laning solo against 2 players and killing them quite often. Build was int related. Can't say that they were complete lame feeders or something. Boros is by far the most difficult hero to play in pub games, and mad props to anyone who does. The skill level required to use this hero is ungodly Lolwut? It's Tosh who really requires ungodly skill. Only seen well-played Tosh once. Player was Francuz. He lost that game mostly because of leavers, who left him and his new n00by buddy in 2vs5 situation, but gave us hard time and gathered more kills than any other player. In all other very few cases I've seen Tosh in pubs he was either feeding like hell or staying away of any engagement sometimes throwing his terrazine grenade in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Climax Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 tassadar is hard in pubs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doxthefox Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Rory raynor and tosh. All squishy and rely on others to succeed. Also there's always a bio stalker or boros so gg to those 3 after your team or their team quits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peons Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 he just said dustin is a bad farmer lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yaldi Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Brine is the hardest pub hero for sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustZerO Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 i would add micro. he is a great tank, and can take huge amounts of damage, but his main purpose is initiation, and without a team, you can only throw enemies in your canon, and that works only in early game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firnefex Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Rory raynor and tosh. All squishy and rely on others to succeed. Also there's always a bio stalker or boros so gg to those 3 after your team or their team quits. Rory?Lol, he is a monster in pubs, because of Molo/Stevie! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
residente Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Rory? Lol, he is a monster in pubs, because of Molo/Stevie! dont forget flare/sunflare and lockbox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spooky Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 It's Tosh who really requires ungodly skill. Only seen well-played Tosh once. Player was Francuz. He lost that game mostly because of leavers, who left him and his new n00by buddy in 2vs5 situation, but gave us hard time and gathered more kills than any other player. In all other very few cases I've seen Tosh in pubs he was either feeding like hell or staying away of any engagement sometimes throwing his terrazine grenade in. I think Tosh is very easy to play in pubs. He has a lot of space for farming (which he can very fast), can easily outdeny opponents in lane as most of pubbers are quite bad in last hitting and denies. Moreover because of lack of teamplay isn't very hard to catch some overexposed hero and chain stun him do death. However he may have a problem if enemies can play as a team while his team can't, especially if they have some CC. And it isn't true that Tosh require godly micro. It isn't very hard to press W few times for chain stun. The most difficult part is to put terrazine while u chain-stunning. I think Cow or Tassadar requires much more micro and precision to play well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
residente Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 I think Tosh is very easy to play in pubs. He has a lot of space for farming (which he can very fast), can easily outdeny opponents in lane as most of pubbers are quite bad in last hitting and denies. Moreover because of lack of teamplay isn't very hard to catch some overexposed hero and chain stun him do death. However he may have a problem if enemies can play as a team while his team can't, especially if they have some CC. And it isn't true that Tosh require godly micro. It isn't very hard to press W few times for chain stun. The most difficult part is to put terrazine while u chain-stunning. I think Cow or Tassadar requires much more micro and precision to play well. Ye, I agree with you, but I dont think Cow requires much micro to play well, I like to play Cow in pubs because is one of the funniest heros in the game, specially with Impact Dial, the bad thing about Cow is, his low str, he is a str and he is still weak, he only reach 2k hp at lvl 18 without any str or hp item. His ulti has a retarded cooldown and the cindalive clip (or whatever is called) was nerfed from 150 to 125% CAN ANYONE TELL ME WHY? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doxthefox Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Rory walks in ... a wild biotron appears ultis and slaps you away. Rory faints. Its super effective! Or stalker blinks in and ulti from leaver bonus! Or... boros ultis rory and two others who stayed. Its a pub!!! Not an ih. Zzzzz too much work to win with casters with no escape mechanic in a pub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lOvOl Posted October 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Cow is the hero I see least in pubs. I've seen various players (Maem) do extraordinarily well with Dustin in pubs (Rakura in house) regardless of the skill level of his teammates. I'm not saying Cow in underpowered, or weak, or whatever, but just that he is probably the hardest to do well with right now if your teammates are bad. He sets up epic ganks and kills and if his team is too dumb (or more usually, scared) to take advantage of his setups it puts him in a bad place. I have found Cow pretty strong in pubs, so long as you don't build him as a caster. I've seen Jackson raping everyone in pubs, laning solo against 2 players and killing them quite often. Build was int related. Can't say that they were complete lame feeders or something. Lolwut? It's Tosh who really requires ungodly skill. Only seen well-played Tosh once. Player was Francuz. He lost that game mostly because of leavers, who left him and his new n00by buddy in 2vs5 situation, but gave us hard time and gathered more kills than any other player. In all other very few cases I've seen Tosh in pubs he was either feeding like hell or staying away of any engagement sometimes throwing his terrazine grenade in. Ummm I am sure he was being super serious about Boros. Then again Tosh is one of those heroes conventional wisdom says takes a lot of skill, but I find him ridiculously easy to do well with. All you have to do is know his basic combos and a good build for him and so long as your team is not all cowards (i.e. you engage in battle and end up being the one stuck with the bag), you can probably put him in the top tier of heroes at the moment. i would add micro. he is a great tank, and can take huge amounts of damage, but his main purpose is initiation, and without a team, you can only throw enemies in your canon, and that works only in early game. I get like 20 kills a game with micro using superheated mantle, impact dial, carapace, barbed plating, shadowmourne and finally pyre. I think the mistake many micro players make (at least in pubs) is they go pure tank which in effect does not make him much of a threat, whereas with the build I mentioned you can just laugh at Nova all day long as the combo of health, armor, shadowmourne and barbed pretty much owns any AA hero 1v1. Casters you just beat to death through attrition and you need pyre eventually to be able to finish off very meaty tanks. And yes I could get warp shard/SHC instead of impact dial, however dial on Micro in some ways is better in disorganized play because you can use it to save bad allies who make bad decisions (i.e. mitigating the feeding) as well as pull enemies close to you in range for you to slime them and then throw them since towerdiving is not a practice I try to make a habit of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xSEnergy Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 ^ The rage is strong with this one D: theseusss why haven't you been on mumble in like forever??? Sogeking is usopp???? wtfffffffffffffffffff no way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathnever Posted October 14, 2012 Report Share Posted October 14, 2012 For jackson in pubs, I main jackson in pubs as Awesome and i rape hard usually. I think dustin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madvillain Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 I like playing Jackson in pubs. Pretty standard build as far as I'm aware: Protect/Vita talents Start with Pendant + Teleporter Warp Shard if it's going well Superheated for farming Nitrogen SHC Gravity Edge Game is usually over before you get the GE. Not many kills but players are so disorganized in pubs that you typically can get 3-4 people in an ult and end the game with 20+ assists, no deaths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akanna Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 least used in pubs: tosh, gara, cow, maar, jackson, vergil? Voltron has faded out of use a lot too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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