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Snowball items


Spooky
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So there are 3 items in game which gives stacks per kill/assist up to 5. All of them are lost after death. As each of them provide different type of attribute it may seem that it is even for every hero class. In my opinion it isn't exactly true:

Olympic Torch - 15 STR per stack up to 75 which is 750 raw health. It literally allow hero to snowball as he become harder and harder to get killed. It is almost like Balrog ulti but harder to get stacks

Valor's Manifest - 20 AGI per stack up to 100 which is about 13 armor. AGI heroes has already high armor and physical damage isn't sth they should be scared about. They are still quite easy to kill. Don't really see the reason why any AGI hero may get this item when sooner or later they going to die against some spell nuker during teamfight

Blue Gene - 20 INT per stack up to 100 which mainly increase spell damage output. Quite viable item as majority of casters are staying behind the team or has some escape mechanism.

 

So I think AGI heroes has big disadvantage with this kind of items as they not fit to them as fit to other classes. Tanks actually can get both Olympic Torch and Valor's and get a lots of life and armor. But honestly I have no idea how to make those items more even for every hero class...

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Manifest gives 50 weapon damage for a lower cost than a Hyperion Incinerator. It also gives the aforementioned 13 armor (almost 2 mantles) and I think 15% weapon speed (compare this to graviton booster, which gives 20% for 1050).

 

It's true that this item doesn't help accomplish a carry's role as much as blue gene does for casters and torch does for tanks, but AGI heroes almost universally scale well with advantages (like how Balrog will stomp everyone on the enemy team if he gets fed early on, but without the falloff that Balrog encounters later on). I personally dislike snowball items anyway because it can turn a slightly lopsided game into a slaughterfest, but either way you have to realize that not all heroes are created equal.

 

Valor's might still need a change despite this since you could argue that 1000 extra health is worth a lot more than 15% weapon speed and 13 armor. I think valors could just cost less though.

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Manifest gives 50 weapon damage for a lower cost than a Hyperion Incinerator. It also gives the aforementioned 13 armor (almost 2 mantles) and I think 15% weapon speed (compare this to graviton booster, which gives 20% for 1050).

 

How so? YOu don't get any increase in weapon damage only an increase in agility for Valor's Manifest. You only get increases in weapon speed.

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Valors costs 1400 and you get 10% ws and 15 wd with the potential of another 100 agi. It is under used but there is no way that this item can be buffed at the current cost. I do agree that agi heros tend to be squishy and risk losing stack to spell nukes. But this item is a risk vs reward. If you are confident you can stay alive, this is an amazing item to get.

 

 

How so? YOu don't get any increase in weapon damage only an increase in agility for Valor's Manifest. You only get increases in weapon speed.

 

Im assuming he is talking about 50wd for agi heros, not all heros.

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How so? YOu don't get any increase in weapon damage only an increase in agility for Valor's Manifest. You only get increases in weapon speed.

 

You get +50 weapon damage if you are an AGI hero, which, considering valor's stats, only AGI heroes should really get it.

 

It *might* be useful on a bruiser for the armor and weapon speed, but you'd want to sell it as the game goes on.

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even in LoL, blade of the occult (the equivalent of valors) is essentially never bought. Mejai's (equivalent of blue gene) is really the only snowball item bought. I have always felt the base stats on valors are too derpy. I would have liked something like, 5% lifesteal, or a bit more attackspeed attached onto the base stats

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Yeah, is not useful if you are playing shadow or a weak hero with a low durability build, but it is very useful if you are playing with a defensive build (as I always do as shadow or leo or zera) and it is even more useful if you are playing with toxi, so I don't think it is ok if you know how to play with a dps :P

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I wish the snowball items would be removed because it really encourages a certain type of player (at least in pub games). I have seen people buy all the snowball items for their hero and upon their first death, they leave the game. These items would be better if they just kinda passively added stats like ihan does over time, except once you die the stacks are lost. I wish Balrog was this way as well as it is just really lame and a chore to keep killing creeps with your ult over and over again in a typical game, plus the fact his ultimate is completely useless except for this one purpose since it now no longer procs on BHM. Not gonna argue whether Balrog is balanced or not, but this game mechanic could definitely be improved if you ask me both with Balrog and these snowball items.

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Valor's Guise and Valor's Manifest were my favourite items before the big item change. I'm sad they got lost and changed to that. They're not as sexy anymore, and the loss upon death is really a huge drawback. Even if you pull that 5 kills, you're still not certain you won't get killed in a team fight or something, so it's a big investment for a volatile item. And this is especially true for Valor's Manifest, because at least Olympic Torch gives survivability, and Blue Gene allows casters to hit harder before they are reached by the attackers. Valor's not really there at all.

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Valor is a zera item & i've found that it's most viable on him & not really other AAs... yes, other AGI heros could take advantage of the item but zera is the only one that trully benifits from the added AGI that it provides due to his backstab, which can make him a monster in the early/mid part of the game. Olympic & Gene are more based on or benifit most/all heros in thier particular Attribute.

 

These items (mainly Olympic & Gene) can seriously make or break a game very early on if used or played properly.

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I wish the snowball items would be removed because it really encourages a certain type of player (at least in pub games). I have seen people buy all the snowball items for their hero and upon their first death, they leave the game. These items would be better if they just kinda passively added stats like ihan does over time, except once you die the stacks are lost. I wish Balrog was this way as well as it is just really lame and a chore to keep killing creeps with your ult over and over again in a typical game, plus the fact his ultimate is completely useless except for this one purpose since it now no longer procs on BHM. Not gonna argue whether Balrog is balanced or not, but this game mechanic could definitely be improved if you ask me both with Balrog and these snowball items.

I like snowball items however they are not even. Olympic Torch is simply the best as it very cheap potential 1050 health. Balrog ulti become more viable since u get some crit chance and Khali Blade. And I also like the way it works. Only damage is little bit to low without criticals. Since BHM doesn't work with, it should be reversed to state it used to be with better scaling and higher damage. Anyway Balrog is strong enough already.

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torch only gives 15 per stack because it was absurd when it gave 20

 

Why?

 

STR heroes get less kills than AGI or INT spell nukers in general, and their snowball item gives less stats. Absurd is what it is now. Never saw this item on any nonzero-skill player playing STR except if it's Biotron. While Valor's and/or Blue Gene are present in each and every one flobing game.

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How so? YOu don't get any increase in weapon damage only an increase in agility for Valor's Manifest. You only get increases in weapon speed.

 

Dude... 100 AGI = 50 damage if you are AGI, what the hell did you drink?

 

Why?

 

STR heroes get less kills than AGI or INT spell nukers in general, and their snowball item gives less stats. Absurd is what it is now. Never saw this item on any nonzero-skill player playing STR except if it's Biotron. While Valor's and/or Blue Gene are present in each and every one flobing game.

 

Do you know what are you saying? First of all str can get less kill than AGI or INT but the item give you stacks if you ASSIST too... If "nonzero-skill" players playing STR don't buy this item maybe they are "neartozero-skill" players. 750 hp from 75 str + 300 hp from the item = 1050 hp for 1400 minerals, are you serious? What is Absurd? casters can get 100 int, who scale pretty well with their nukes, agi heros can get 100 agi, they get a nice amount of dmg and weapon speed, but nothing compared to int and str, and str heros just get 1050 hp and they can reach 2.5-3k hp in the early game. I don't know if you thought before making the post

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residente

 

 

I don't know what happens in inh. Maybe that's something different. But in pubs in ~200 matches I've seen torch get bought

 

1) by conscious Biotron player

2) by player who don't bother of going deep into item builds and just buys what's recommended

 

While valor and blue gene are bought by most if not all agi/int players.

 

I wonder why that happens.

th_rsz_2jackiechan.png

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I play specially pubs, i rarely play ih and in pubs i've seen much more torchs than manifest, if in your region the pub players are so stupid they dont buy a torch who give them 750 extra hp after a teamfight, they are doing something wrong, torch is good even for some agi heros like vespus or leo and int heros like erekul, the item was nerfed from 20 to 15 for something, and it's still a huge item to consider

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residente

 

 

I don't know what happens in inh. Maybe that's something different. But in pubs in ~200 matches I've seen torch get bought

 

1) by conscious Biotron player

2) by player who don't bother of going deep into item builds and just buys what's recommended

 

While valor and blue gene are bought by most if not all agi/int players.

In most pubs even if player pick tank hero he doesn't play him as tank. LZ, Tychus, Balrog - all are builded mainly as dps heroes. So I'm not surprised it isn't very common item on pubs. Just people don't know how to play those heroes. Mainly Bio and Drake players get it as this heroes scale with STR very well. Olympic Torch was nerfed to 15 STR per stack as 1300 hp early game was ridiculous. Getting Valor's early game on AGI hero is usually bad idea as it is very hard to keep stacks, actually it fit better tanks which gives them a lots of needed armor.

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Dude... 100 AGI = 50 damage if you are AGI, what the hell did you drink?

AGI only gives Weapon Speed... It doesn't boost damage. Read again?

 

Why?

 

STR heroes get less kills than AGI or INT spell nukers in general, and their snowball item gives less stats. Absurd is what it is now. Never saw this item on any nonzero-skill player playing STR except if it's Biotron. While Valor's and/or Blue Gene are present in each and every one flobing game.

You can get a stack if you get an assist. You don't need the kill to get 5 stacks on Olympic Torch or any snowball item for that matter.

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Valor manifest gives AGI so it gives damage, armor and weapon speed if you are agi hero, armor and weapon speed if you are str or int hero

 

what the flob do you say energy agi only gives weapon speed it doesnt boost damage? each point of agi = 0.5 attack damage on agi heros, you trolling or stupid?

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Valor manifest gives AGI so it gives damage, armor and weapon speed if you are agi hero, armor and weapon speed if you are str or int hero

 

what the flob do you say energy agi only gives weapon speed it doesnt boost damage? each point of agi = 0.5 attack damage on agi heros, you trolling or stupid?

 

What are you serious? Last time I checked it only gives you boost in Wpn Spd. I think you should check again. If I'm wrong then my bad. STR only gives Health. INT only gives Energy. AGI only gives Wpn Spd

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