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The "Is This Balanced" Thread


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So the new items have been around for a while now and everyone has had a chance to try them on pretty much every hero to see what works and what does not. Nevertheless, there are some extreeeeeeeeeeeeeeemmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmme balance concerns right now, especially in pub play so this discussion is essentially whether something in the game feels like it needs to be questioned.

 

I will start off by asking "Is Cerebro Balanced On Boros"?

 

Well is it?

 

How about "Is marine king with force of entropy, pyre, and nitrogen refit for 60% slow on top of the slow from his marines balanced"?

 

Well is it?

 

And how about "Is the 12 second duration of Shadow's Ultimate balanced, especially if he has a stun baton handy balanced".

 

Well is it?

 

 

So basically, what are the craziest scenarios in AoS right now that make you ask "Is this balanced?"

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How about "Is marine king with force of entropy, pyre, and nitrogen refit for 60% slow on top of the slow from his marines balanced"?

 

Also keep in mind that slows override movement speed buffs, meaning if you have 50% increased movespeed, that 50% increase is decreased by 60%, meaning that your net speed change ends up being -40% instead of -10%.

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How about "Is marine king with force of entropy, pyre, and nitrogen refit for 60% slow on top of the slow from his marines balanced"?

 

Well is it?

 

So basically, what are the craziest scenarios in AoS right now that make you ask "Is this balanced?"

 

Isn't the slow from Vespus with these items worse? And all of those items were in the game previously.

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I want a system that weeds out the ability to pick multiple obviously broken, mostly auto banned in IH heroes from all being picked in pubs. Someone like tiers of OP pub stompness so that if one gets picked, you can't pick more than one of the other obvious culprits.

 

Every other game consists of a Null, Nova, Bio, Starscream and Boros.

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Isn't the slow from Vespus with these items worse? And all of those items were in the game previously.

 

Oh yah that is pretty bad, though FoE used to be an active and now it gives 35% movement speed debuff all the time. Add in a timesplitter on Vespus and you can tack another 15% slow on top of his 30% slow from his passive and the 60% from FoE and Nitrogen. That is like 105% slow on that hero just from AA attacks.

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I want a system that weeds out the ability to pick multiple obviously broken, mostly auto banned in IH heroes from all being picked in pubs. Someone like tiers of OP pub stompness so that if one gets picked, you can't pick more than one of the other obvious culprits.

 

Every other game consists of a Null, Nova, Bio, Starscream and Boros.

 

Have not seen Starscream (in pubs) in a long time though I do agree he is very cheesy by someone who knows how to play him. Also, I can outplay all of those heroes but Boros right now because permanent spell storm pretty much makes him invincible and phantom menace is ridiculous as well because it eliminates his only real weakness in that he is vulnerable after using spell storm (not that it matters with permanent spell storm), but if he can just run away with ease you are never going to kill him. Bio with the right gear is extremely lame as well because unless a whole team has superheated mantle and tons plenty of lifesteal or health, Bio just has to spawn some minions and hit R and you are gonna die most of the time. A good Bio will get plenty of stun and slow items to ensure what he casts R on will die as well.

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total crap again.

 

Many heroes can easily run away from bio, if they have brain and they have few protect items.

 

Any teleport skill/(warp shard) - guarantees survival for hero with some hp.

Shadow vortex

Shadow Blade (early game)

Erekul Q (early game)

Grunty shawtgun

Gravitus slow/TP

Unix Fungal.

Boros Q.

Nova's Invis + nitro.

 

Still not enough?

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total crap again.

 

Many heroes can easily run away from bio, if they have brain and they have few protect items.

 

Any teleport skill/(warp shard) - guarantees survival for hero with some hp.

Shadow vortex

Shadow Blade (early game)

Erekul Q (early game)

Grunty shawtgun

Gravitus slow/TP

Unix Fungal.

Boros Q.

Nova's Invis + nitro.

 

Still not enough?

 

Tazer GG the end Not sure what a nova with a nitros gunna do though....

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Oh yah that is pretty bad, though FoE used to be an active and now it gives 35% movement speed debuff all the time. Add in a timesplitter on Vespus and you can tack another 15% slow on top of his 30% slow from his passive and the 60% from FoE and Nitrogen. That is like 105% slow on that hero just from AA attacks.

 

That isn't how move speed debuffs work. 30% from passive, 35% from FoE, and 25% from Nitrogen add up to x * 0.7 * 0.65 * 0.75 = x * 0.34 where x is base move speed. The final net debuff amount is 66% rather than 90% (the total of individual percents). So if you hit Zera, for example, his base speed (3) would be multiplied by the "speed left" ratio and then the flat 0.4 bonus is tacked on at the end yielding the following formula:

 

3.00 * 0.70 * 0.65 * 0.75 + 0.4 = 1.42 which displays in-game as 3 (-1.58). Also, as a side note, I discovered in my testing that when you take damage from any source, you suffer a 0.01 flat reduction of move speed. Never knew that before.

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Oh yah that is pretty bad, though FoE used to be an active and now it gives 35% movement speed debuff all the time. Add in a timesplitter on Vespus and you can tack another 15% slow on top of his 30% slow from his passive and the 60% from FoE and Nitrogen. That is like 105% slow on that hero just from AA attacks.

With 105% slow target would start moving backward...

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If you have to ask if it is balanced then chances are it isn't. Also nerf biotron. Is their another ulti as strong as his that has a cooldown that is on par with a normal ability. Infinite harassment. Must buy a mixture of warp shard, shm, organic carapace and spell buffer to survive! Increase the price of leeching saber as well or lower the effectiveness. It gives you 15% leech and 5 gold per 10. It basically sets up sustain in the lane against anything short of a burst damage combo.

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If you have to ask if it is balanced then chances are it isn't.

 

Yes, excellent standard for balance. Based on that standard, I ask:

  • Is it balanced that Tosh's spectres are not invulnerable?
  • Is it balanced that Vorpal's Dark Matter doesn't reflect 100% of incoming spell damage?
  • Is it balanced that Toxi can't use his ultimate continuously?
  • Is it balanced that Jackson's ultimate radius isn't the entire map?
  • Is it balanced that Rancor's nukes don't also silence enemies?
  • Is it balanced that Cyprus has cooldowns?
  • Is it balanced that Shadow's vortex doesn't teleport impacted units back to Shadow's base?

Devs, please implement these changes immediately so we can have a balanced game!

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Yes, excellent standard for balance. Based on that standard, I ask:

  • Is it balanced that Tosh's spectres are not invulnerable?
  • Is it balanced that Vorpal's Dark Matter doesn't reflect 100% of incoming spell damage?
  • Is it balanced that Toxi can't use his ultimate continuously?
  • Is it balanced that Jackson's ultimate radius isn't the entire map?
  • Is it balanced that Rancor's nukes don't also silence enemies?
  • Is it balanced that Cyprus has cooldowns?
  • Is it balanced that Shadow's vortex doesn't teleport impacted units back to Shadow's base?

Devs, please implement these changes immediately so we can have a balanced game!

 

This was one of the dumbest posts I've ever read.

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Yes, excellent standard for balance. Based on that standard, I ask:

  • Is it balanced that Tosh's spectres are not invulnerable?
  • Is it balanced that Vorpal's Dark Matter doesn't reflect 100% of incoming spell damage?
  • Is it balanced that Toxi can't use his ultimate continuously?
  • Is it balanced that Jackson's ultimate radius isn't the entire map?
  • Is it balanced that Rancor's nukes don't also silence enemies?
  • Is it balanced that Cyprus has cooldowns?
  • Is it balanced that Shadow's vortex doesn't teleport impacted units back to Shadow's base?

Devs, please implement these changes immediately so we can have a balanced game!

 

Those questions don't have to be asked. There are certain questions that people chose to ask for personal and subjective reasons. There are other questions that are asked because objective logic and reason demand it.

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Those questions don't have to be asked. There are certain questions that people chose to ask for personal and subjective reasons. There are other questions that are asked because objective logic and reason demand it.

 

No question has to be asked. The impetus for change is in the underlying logic and reason, not in the question itself. That's the point. The fact that people are (or are not) asking questions does not imply imbalance (or balance). The question itself is unnecessary in the presence of logic and reason.

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No question has to be asked. The impetus for change is in the underlying logic and reason, not in the question itself. That's the point. The fact that people are (or are not) asking questions does not imply imbalance (or balance). The question itself is unnecessary in the presence of logic and reason.

 

The question has already been asked. It was asked by the universe because the universe had to ask it. It's up to us to discover those questions that exist and synchronize our minds with the logic and reason therein. Then there are questions that were never asked because they didn't need to be. They're often what we'd recognize as silly or ridiculous; but not always. It's easy to recognize a sensible question that makes sense. It's easy to recognize a silly question that sounds silly. What's much harder is differentiating out the questions that are more transient; the ones to which there is a question as to which they really are serious or really are silly. But asking the question leads you to reason out the answer. Credible balance has to be based on the answers, not the questions. You can ask "Is this skill balanced?" and base action on the answer. If you put it the answer first and then base balance on the question, you're playing Jeopardy. And, in that case, I have to ask you about The Penis Mightier.

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The question has already been asked. It was asked by the universe because the universe had to ask it. It's up to us to discover those questions that exist and synchronize our minds with the logic and reason therein.

 

Huh? Where is this coming from? Midknight 3:16?

 

Then there are questions that were never asked because they didn't need to be.

 

If the questions were asked (i.e. if they qualify as questions), then how were they never asked? They're often what we'd recognize as silly or ridiculous; but not always.

 

It's easy to recognize a sensible question that makes sense. It's easy to recognize a silly question that sounds silly. What's much harder is differentiating out the questions that are more transient; the ones to which there is a question as to which they really are serious or really are silly. But asking the question leads you to reason out the answer.

 

 

Of course asking the question can lead you to evaluate the merits of the question. But hearing the question be asked does not imply that the question has merit.

 

Credible balance has to be based on the answers, not the questions. You can ask "Is this skill balanced?" and base action on the answer. If you put it the answer first and then base balance on the question, you're playing Jeopardy. And, in that case, I have to ask you about The Penis Mightier.

 

So basically you agree with me that it's absurd to base a balance discussion on whether or not a question was asked by a player. Also, I never proposed putting the answer before the question. I stated that balance could be achieved without a question ever being asked or an answer given. In other words, I implied that balance should be based on the motivation for the question. That motivation still exists whether or not the question is asked. I don't have any problem with people asking, "is this balanced?" I do, however, think it's silly (at best) to infer balance based on whether or not a question is asked.

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You guys made me run out of likes for the day. Again.

 

Stop doing that, please? Please?

 

No? Okay. *bookmarks thread*

 

 

Anyway, no question has to be asked but if you want questions on a subject there are some that many wish to know [and this becomes having to know due to humans being humans]...

 

Well, at least, in my experience. ^^;

But on this thread, I really have to agree with tukey on one point-- why are Tosh's Spectres | Raynor's Raiders so WEAK? I mean, Unix's Marines can 1v1 them and WIN. Even if the Raynor is fed [6 items] and the Unix has barely any kills [4 items] (*coughI've done this beforecough*)...

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