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Drafting guide by Shablagoo


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A Guide To Drafting, by Shablagoo

 

I wanted to write a guide after the tournament had ended, but didn't really have time till now.

I wanted to write something that could stay relevant for a longer period of time, so hero guides were pretty much out of the question, seeing as there are constant changes to the heroes.

This guide will contain examples from both DotA 2, and games from the tournament (not only my teams games, there is at least 1 other example I will use too).

If anything is hard to understand, feel free to ask, and I will answer as best I can.

I do not claim to be the best drafter out there, nor do I claim to have the best knowledge, but I do think I can learn away a thing or two.

I do not take any credit for the drafting done by my team in the tournament, that was a entirely a team effort.

Changelog:

5 October 2012 - Guide created.

5 Octrober 2012 - Hero tier list added.

 

What is drafting?

Drafting is the picking/banning of heroes that happens before a game starts. In AoS there is, as far as I know, two modes that uses drafting. Draft pick (or is it called captains mode?) and 2g2t (2 global bans, 2 team bans). In DotA 2 you also have 2 modes, random draft, and captains mode.

 

To make it easy, I will explain how draft pick was done in the tournament.

Protoss team would start, and it would go:

 

P=Protoss: 1st ban.

Z=Zerg: 2nd ban.

P: 3rd ban.

Z: 4th ban.

 

P: 1st pick.

Z: 2nd and 3rd pick.

P: 4th and 5th pick.

Z: 6th pick.

 

P: 5th ban.

Z: 6th ban.

 

P: 7th pick.

Z: 8th and 9th pick.

P: 10th pick.

 

So this is how the draft pick works, each hero can only be banned/picked by one team, and there are also usually some “auto banned” heroes, these are either specified by the tournament rules, or can be agreed upon by the captains before the bans (though this rarely happens in AoS). A hero can become “auto banned” for several reasons, the most common being the hero being bugged, or overpowered. “Auto banned” heroes are, as the name says automatically banned, so that neither of the teams needs to use a ban on it, and none of the teams can pick it.

 

 

Why is drafting important?

In the game of AoS, or DotA 2, for that matter, not all heroes are of equal value. Some are stronger than others, some are more important to the team than others. Some are easier, some are harder. You get the idea, there is a lot of heroes, and they are all different, thus they are also valued differently. So why is drafting important?

Drafting is important because if two teams of equal skill go up against each other, the team with the better draft should in theory always win. Meaning that the better the teams playing each other are, the more important the draft becomes. In the tournament held in September 2012 by JustSafrican (shoutout to him, he’s a great guy!) we saw a lot of teams lose because they got out drafted. Of course individual skill also counts towards winning the game, but if you flob up at the draft, you already start the game behind.

 

 

Conclusion of hero tier list.

 

The idea when picking heroes is that you always want to pick heroes in the early phase of the draft that does a lot for you, and are easy to put in lanes. This way, it's harder to ban/pick heroes for the opponent that will leave you with few options. If you pick heroes that are hard to put in lanes in the early phase of the draft, the opposition can force you to have bad lanes, by taking/banning the heroes that are great in lane. Therefore, you want to pick heroes with a lot of utility early on, and heroes that doesn't have so much utility, later on in the draft.

 

What is your goal with the draft?

There are actually many small goals with the draft. You should have a plan for every single pick/ban in the draft, there should be some thought behind every ban/pick. Not only your own pick, you also have to try to decipher your opponents picks/bans, and foresee what they want to do with it. The goal with the draft is obviously to get the strongest possible team of 5 heroes. However, there’s a lot to take into consideration when drafting.

 

When picking:

You need to take into consideration what heroes your team is good with. There are also several questions you need to ask yourself.

· Can we play the hero well? Know your team.

· Does the hero fit into our composition/strategy?

· Is the hero good against their composition/strategy?

· Can we fit the hero in a lane?

· Is it a hero they might pick? And if yes, how early would they want to pick it? Know your opponents.

· If we leave the hero in the pool, and they pick it, is it replaceable?

Obviously your team needs to have someone who is able to play the hero, in order for you to pick it. The hero also needs to fit into the strategy or composition you’re aiming for; for instance, you never want a dual melee lane, as they tend to lose to most dual lanes. While I’m a fan of forcing the enemy to adopt to my draft, there are certain scenarios where you don’t pick a hero you want, because of the enemy setup, for instance Unix is a bad pick vs Erekul, Rory doesn’t fare so well against Balrog, Nova is probably not the greatest pick up vs a Rancor Raynor combination, etc. You need to be able to put the hero into a lane, in the current metagame, having strong lanes (that can push) is important, if you want to win your lane, you need strong lanes, however, sometimes you do sack laning potential, in order to get some hero that has a huge impact later on in the game.

You always have to take into consideration if the hero you want is something that they might also want. You always want to pick the heroes you want as late as possible in the draft. If you can save a pick you really want to the last pick, you do it, simply because there are probably higher tier heroes that both teams will be fighting over, I’ll come back to that later in the guide. If you know that the hero you want to pick is something that the enemy also wants to pick really early in the draft, it might be a good idea to pick it up straight away, so that you both have the hero you want, and you deny it for your enemy, it serves as an extra ban so to speak. However, it might not always be good to pick a hero early, just because you know the enemy wants it. The draft is always about getting good trades, when you pick one hero, it means you will leave open another one, it’s all about getting good trades. Therefore often times when you have 2nd pick, you want to leave open many strong heroes, so that when the opposition picks a strong hero, you can take two strong heroes, because there’s a lot of strong heroes in the pool, but I’ll come back to that later.

An example of a situation where a team pick a hero that both teams really wanted, but probably shouldn’t have picked that early is in the game between Dark Samurais and AFKBRBPP in the three way tiebreaker in the European log of the tournament (which I actually happened to cast with Marche, thanks to him for letting me on, it was fun). Both teams wanted Erekul, and in the group stage game between the two teams, AFKBRBPP had picked Erekul as the 4th pick in the draft, I know that Dark Samurais wanted to pick the hero, but didn’t expect them to pick it that early, which made them first pick it in the tiebreaker match. Leaving open Vorpal and Jax, which AFKBRBPP took in the 2nd and 3rd pick. There’s a psychology aspect here too, if you know that the opponent will pick a hero, or hero combination really early on, you might want to leave in stronger heroes, so that they get what they want, but you get a really good trade for it. I’ll come back to that later.

 

When banning with 1st pick:

The first banning phase is a lot about setting yourself up for a good 1st picking phase. If you have 1st pick, you generally want to leave in either only 1 strong hero, or a lot of strong heroes, so that you can get 2/3 strong heroes in your first 3 picks. However, since you don’t have the last ban of the draft, it’s really hard to leave in only 1 strong hero, and thus you usually want to leave in as many as possible. This means that your first two bans can be used on pretty much everything. The first ban of the draft is always free, meaning that you can do whatever you want with it, so you spend it as a hate ban, or a ban on a hero you really don’t want to play against, and that you don’t plan on picking yourself.

An example from the tournament would be when we (John+4) played against team Godlike, we played them twice, in the upper bracket semifinal, and in the lower bracket finals. In both games we decided to use our first ban on Garamond, it was a hero we hadn’t played a lot, we had no plans to pick it, and we knew that the NA teams liked to play it. Therefore we banned it, since we didn’t have enough experience playing against it.

The 2nd ban is always going to be situational; you will never know what to use your 2nd ban on before you see their first ban. When you see their first ban, you’ll have a better idea what to ban, since this is always situational, it’s hard to say “if they do this, ban this”, and easier to give an example, and explain the thoughts behind it, so let’s jump into another example:

The 2nd game in the finals, between our team, and team Fairly Balanced is a good example. Our first ban was Egon, the reason we banned that was simply that we were not going to first pick it, and we considered the hero extremely strong, and a hero we really didn’t want to play against. So that goes back to the “ban a hero you really don’t want to play against, and that you don’t plan on picking yourself.” Then they banned Micro. Now in the pool that was left there were heroes like Drake, Bio, Jackson, Vorpal, Vergil, all of which we considered really strong. However, now that we banned Egon, we didn’t really want to first pick drake, and we knew they had a really strong Drake player, so we decided to ban Drake. While this gives them the opportunity to ban one of the other strong heroes, leaving three strong heroes in the pool, so that they get two, and we get one, we still thought it was the best decision. They ended up banning Bio. The game can be found here (there are also replays on the forums, it’s linked at the bottom).

The 2nd ban phase is always going to be situational, and there are so many factors to take into consideration that I can only really give examples of 2nd ban phases and reasoning behind them. But I’ll go through an entire draft later, and do it then.

 

When banning with 2nd pick:

When you have 2nd pick, it means that the opposition has 1 pick, then you have 2. The advantages of having 2nd pick are obviously the fact that you have the 2nd and 3rd pick. You also have the last ban in both banning phases, meaning that ultimately, you’re the one deciding which heroes stay in the picking pool, and which does not. You also have the last pick before the 2nd ban phase, meaning that you can pick up a hero that can be easily countered by 1 hero, but that you can then ban, first pick does not have this luxury (however they do have the last pick of the draft). All bans/picks are always situational, but if there’s a really strong hero in the pool, then you have to make up your mind. You can give them that hero, but is the trade you get for it worth it? You always have to weight up what you give, to what you get. There is always a trade. Sometimes it makes more sense to ban the strong hero, and sometimes you want to leave it in, I’ll give an example.

In the first game in the finals of the tournament, we had 2nd pick, and we had already decided the night before to leave biotron in the pool. Biotron was by many teams considered the best first pick out there, and a crazy overpowered hero. We agreed that he was really strong, but decided that if we managed to leave in Drake, Egon and Biotron, we could get either Drake, Egon, Bio, Egon, or Drake Bio as our 2nd pick. Thus when they didn’t ban any of the heroes (they banned Vergil) we banned Mule, a hero we knew they also liked to play, that we didn’t want to face up against. They 2nd banned Micro, we decided to ban Jackson, because that would leave the pool with: Egon, Drake, Biotron, Vorpal. We knew they were going to pick up either Drake or Biotron, because we knew they liked Drake a lot. Which then meant that we were going to pick up Egon and Bio, there was no way around picking these 2 heroes for us in this scenario, meaning that Jackson would be left for them to pick up with their 2nd pick, which we didn’t want them to have. Drake plus Jackson sounded way to frightening to us. They ended up picking Drake, and we got Biotron and Egon, which we were really happy with.

So the trade in this scenario was that we gave them Drake, but got Bio and Egon in return, they also got Vorpal. It’s important to note that when you’re looking at a trade, something that looks like a good trade to you, might look like a bad trade to someone else, the most important thing is that you (and your team) feel confident with the trade you’ve done, every team out there plays better if you feel like you’ve done a good draft. And in the end, hero rating will always be subjective anyways.

 

Psychology and Drafting:

This is more advanced stuff, and a very small part of the drafting in AoS. In DotA 2 this kind of stuff is more relevant than in AoS. However, it isn’t nonexistent, and to ignore it would be stupid, so let’s talk a little bit about it. Psychology in drafting is all about getting into your opponents head, if you can predict what he’s going to do, or force him to do something, then you can make a plan to counter that, already before he has done it. The more information you have, the more abusive you can be in your drafting. For instance if you know for a fact that the opposition can’t play a hero at all, you can force them to use a ban on it, and if they don’t, you can pick it up really late, meaning you can pick up other heroes that they might have wanted. If you know that the opposition has a player capable of playing only two heroes, which is also two heroes they always expect to be able to pick later on in the draft, you can catch them really off guard with banning one of them, and picking the other one up early on. A similar scenario happened in game 2 of the finals in the tournament:

The first part of the draft was over, and we had picked Jackson, Vergil and Rancor. We knew the other team had a player who played a good Erekul and a good Raynor, but we also knew that his other heroes were all way worse than those two heroes. So in the 2nd ban phase, we had first ban, and we also had the first pick after the 2nd ban phase. Nor Erekul or Raynor was picked yet, we decided to ban out Erekul, both as a hateban, and because we didn’t want to play the hero, we also didn’t want to play against the hero, so it was an easy ban. Then when it got back to us again, they had obviously not banned Raynor, as it was the only hero left in the pool that the player we’re talking about could play really well. We hadn’t picked Raynor a single time in the tournament, so they probably expected in the first phase of the draft, that they would easily be able to pick up either Raynor or Erekul later on, but when they picked their 3rd hero, we had the opportunity to deny them both, seeing as we had first pick, and ban. We decided to go with Raynor, which really threw them off. It wasn’t necessarily a great pick up, but it surprised them, and threw them off nevertheless. We won that game with several of the heroes they had ran throughout the entire tournament, we thought this would trigger them to pick those heroes really early on in the draft next game. Since we didn’t really rate them as high as they did, we decided to let them in the pool in the next draft, and decided that if they took those heroes early on, that would mean that we got a really good trade for them. They did pick up Raynor&Rancor as the 2nd and 3rd hero in the next draft, which we really didn’t mind. We ended up winning that game, and the tournament.

 

Drafting as Protoss:

Now I’ve pretty much gone through everything I wanted to go through, but I want to put it all together, and go through one draft from each side in the end now, so let’s start with Protoss.

The game we will be looking at is the game between our team and team Godlike, I’m sorry I’ve been using so much of our own drafts, but it really is much easier to explain my own thoughts, than to try to go into someone else’s.

 

First banning phase:

So with our very first ban, we could ban pretty much anything, or we could ban out something that would be a really good second pick (a hero that we didn’t want to play ourselves, but didn’t want to face). We knew they liked Mule, we hadn’t played a lot against Mule, so we decided to ban Mule. They proceeded to ban Vergil with their first ban, a hero we had beat them with before. Now the rest of the draft was pretty obvious to us. Every team that had 2nd pick had banned Bio this far, because nobody wanted to let him through the draft as he was so strong. So we expected them to ban Bio 100% of the time here. With a hero pool consisting of heroes like Micro, Jackson, Drake, Biotron (which we expected them to ban) and Egon. We decided that when they banned Bio, we wanted to pick up Drake first, leaving them a Micro+1 pick. We didn’t expect them to pick Egon with anything other than Drake, as they hadn’t played it earlier in the tournament, and it hadn’t been picked with unless it was with a Drake, at least not by other teams than us. We also expected them to pick up Micro+Drake or Drake+Egon if we left in Jackson, and took him first, both of which were really strong 2nd picks for them, so we decided to ban Jackson. However, they didn’t ban Biotron, they banned Micro, now we were really surprised, and needed to think.

 

First picking phase:

In the hero pool we had Biotron, Egon, Drake, Vorpal as the four strongest heroes. We knew that if we took Biotron, that would open up for Egon Drake, a combo we didn’t want to give them, but in any case, they would get a really strong 2nd pick. Seeing as the strongest hero on its own right was biotron, we decided that we needed to pick that. We already had a really bad feeling, and felt that to this point we had gotten outdrafted. However, to our surprise, they ended up taking Vorpal Drake, a mistake from them, that they also admitted afterwards, maybe whoever said it (nobody knows who called the Vorpal Drake pick for them) didn’t expect us to pick Egon when we didn’t have drake. But our next two picks were anyways pretty obvious for us. We needed to take Egon, he was both a great combo hero with biotron, a great hero on his own, and it also denied them the possibility of picking Egon which would’ve been great with both their heroes so far. Now that we already had Biotron, we knew that there’s about one hero that goes alright against him in the middle lane, that’s Erekul, Erekul was our pick, to deny them, and also if we can have massive healing with Erekul and Egon, it will be very hard for them to ever kill us. They ended up finishing the first picking phase with a Kerrigan.

 

Second banning phase:

Now since we had a lot of sustain, and it would be hard for them to ever kill us, we figured out that what would be most devastating for us, is if we had to tank a Drake+Rory ultimate, since we couldn’t heal if we were stunned from Drake, thus we banned Rory. We also knew they liked running Shadow Rory lanes, and that they were pretty good with it, so there’s another good reason for banning Rory. They banned Tosh.

 

Second picking phase:

Left in the hero pool we had heroes like Toxi, Nova, Rancor, Raynor, Shadow, Grunty etc. A lot of situational heroes. We didn’t like to play Shadow, we needed some kind of DPS, and we decided that with our two last picks, we wanted to pick up a Grunty and a Toxi. We only had one pick however, so we needed to figure out what hero they would want to pick. We had seen them play Toxi three or four times before, so we decided to pick up that first. We also knew they liked to play with huge AoE ultimate heroes, so Toxi was an easy pick up, to deny them that. They picked up Dustin and Boros, that didn’t really change our plans, so we went with the Grunty. Obviously we had to think about good lanes before we picked our heroes, but that was already sorted. We would put Biotron mid, Egon and Grunty would go in the safe lane, Grunty with infinite mana is so strong in lane. Our last lane consisted of Toxi and Erekul, a pretty bad lane, but we decided that this was the strongest way to set up our lanes.

 

Conclusion of the draft:

In the first banning phase, we felt like we got outpicked, since they set themselves up for the Egon Drake pick, however, they failed hard with their first two picks, which allowed us for the stronger draft in the end. The strategy of leaving in Drake, Egon and Biotron was something we adopted and used in the finals, the next draft we’re going to look at.

 

Drafting as Zerg:

The next draft we’re going to look at, is our first game in the finals vs team Fairly Balanced. Sadly this game wasn’t streamed. Let’s jump right into it.

 

First banning phase:

They obviously started with banning, as we were Zerg. Their first ban was Vergil, a hero we had been running before. Our teams turn to ban, we had already decided to leave in Bio, Drake and Egon. We knew they liked Drake a lot, and that one of their players played a good Drake, so it would be possible that they left Bio+Egon, which was what we really wanted. So since we wanted to leave in those 3 heroes, we could ban pretty much anything. We decided to ban Mule, the reasoning has been mentioned heaps of time earlier in the guide. Their next ban was Micro, and now we needed to think. There were 4-5 really strong heroes in the pool, Drake, Bio, Jackson, Vorpal, Egon. We decided that regardless what they first picked, we would need to leave Jackson to their 2nd pick. We didn’t want to do that, so we banned it.

 

First picking phase:

They decided to first pick Drake, we got Egon and Biotron, a trade we were really happy with. Their 2nd and 3rd pick ended up being Rancor and Darpa, leaving us with Erekul. We picked Erekul to deny it for them, since it’s really strong against Bio, and since it’s really good with Egon, given the crazy amount of sustain and healing you have.

 

Second banning phase:

They banned Tosh, a hero we actually really wanted this game, they had done their research. We decided to ban Rory again, for the same reason as we did vs team Godlike, it’s hard to outheal the tower of doom from Rory, combine it with a Drake ultimate, and game is hard.

 

Second picking phase:

They first picked either Raynor or Boros, it doesn’t really matter which one of them it was, as we already had a plan of what we were going to pick. We wanted to pick Tosh, but since it was banned we decided to pick Grunty as our carry. We had already had a lot of success with Grunty, and our other hero was unix, since unix+biotron could push the long lane so hard VS a possible Rancor Raynor combo. Egon Erekul was also a great combo That can’t ever lose a lane.

 

Conclusion of the draft:

We felt like we outdrafted them really hard. We have Egon for sick sustain, Erekul for more sustain, Grunty as our dps, getting healed by both Egon and Grunty, Unix and Biotron winning us the early game singlehandedly. Easy Aeons and Leviathans through Bio, Egon and Unix.

 

Links:

Most replays should be here: http://www.aeonofsto...-replay-thread/

 

Conclusion:

Drafting is mostly about knowing your opponents, but there's also some basic stuff that you need to know, this guide is pretty basic, since it's hard, if not impossible to write an in-depth guide about drafting, I hope it will help someone at least, and open some eyes, maybe give some other ideas than the ones you already had. Regardless I think most people will benefit from reading it, even though it's very basic. Once I put in the hero tier list, it might be easier to get everything, as I can put a lot of information about where to pick/ban certain heroes from a theory craft point of view (where we don't take into consideration who we're playing against).

 

Tl;dr: Read the flobing guide.

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A Guide To Drafting, by Shablagoo   I wanted to write a guide after the tournament had ended, but didn't really have time till now. I wanted to write something that could stay relevant

Must be one of your shorter guides, thanks for sharing though :)   and no zero shab got it right, unless I'm also wrong

"balrog doesnt need an escape mechanic. he escapes by being the last one left alive" -Marche   i think micro tanks better against scrubs than he does against people that know that they are doing. bu

great guide shab, maybe now people will understand how to draft and it won't take for ages every time :D

 

 

2 things i want to mention:

 

1. after the 2 bans in the middle of picking, you continued like this:

 

P: 1st pick.

Z: 2nd and 3rd pick.

P: 4th and 5th pick.

Z: 6th pick.

 

P: 5th ban.

Z: 6th ban.

 

P: 7th pick.

Z: 8th and 9th pick.

P: 10th pick.

 

I am not sure, but shouldn't it look like this?

 

P: 1st pick.

Z: 2nd and 3rd pick.

P: 4th and 5th pick.

Z: 6th pick.

 

P: 5th ban.

Z: 6th ban.

 

Z: 7th pick.

P: 8th and 9th pick.

Z: 10th pick.

 

I think the last pick goes to the team that did not have the first pick, but i am not sure, so correct me if i'm wrong.

 

2. You should mention that Protoss team is the team that won at s/p/r, so there is no confusion about who is allowed to pick/ban first.

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I think the last pick goes to the team that did not have the first pick, but i am not sure, so correct me if i'm wrong.

 

2. You should mention that Protoss team is the team that won at s/p/r, so there is no confusion about who is allowed to pick/ban first.

 

Shab is right.... please dont make the new draft system, it is already confusing most of the people on the B.net

 

By the way, why bio and egon are auto ban now !!

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Must be one of your shorter guides, thanks for sharing though :)

 

and no zero shab got it right, unless I'm also wrong

 

nah i think you are right. i only remember we once did it this way. but tbh i did not play any inh since 4 or 5 weeks, dunno what happened :D hope there will be some guys online this evening

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great guide shab, maybe now people will understand how to draft and it won't take for ages every time :D

 

 

2 things i want to mention:

 

1. after the 2 bans in the middle of picking, you continued like this:

 

 

 

I am not sure, but shouldn't it look like this?

 

P: 1st pick.

Z: 2nd and 3rd pick.

P: 4th and 5th pick.

Z: 6th pick.

 

P: 5th ban.

Z: 6th ban.

 

Z: 7th pick.

P: 8th and 9th pick.

Z: 10th pick.

 

I think the last pick goes to the team that did not have the first pick, but i am not sure, so correct me if i'm wrong.

 

2. You should mention that Protoss team is the team that won at s/p/r, so there is no confusion about who is allowed to pick/ban first.

I don't say I agree with the order of picking, but that was the way the picking was done in the tournament, and there was no spr for protoss side in the tournament.
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Shab is right.... please dont make the new draft system, it is already confusing most of the people on the B.net

 

By the way, why bio and egon are auto ban now !!

Not sure why egon and bio are autoed to be honest, I think there are ways to pick around those heroes, seeing as bio wasn't first pick in the finals, neither was egon. Egon is a great 2nd pick, thus a great first ban. Don't really agree with autobanning any of them to be honest.
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In my opinion, strong heroes are : Jax, micro, drake, vorpoal, toxic, rory, tosh. These heroes are either banned or first around pick for both teams

(bio egon are autoban now )

2nd tier heroes are: Vergil, unix, kerrigan, rancor,

 

 

Good tank: micro, drake, erekul, lz, balrog, vorpal, toxic (semi tank)

Good dps: Kerrigan, tosh, nova, shadow, darpa,

Good caster: jax, rory, vergil, unix, rancor, raynor, cyprus

Good pusher: unix, queen, mule ..

 

A good team hero combination should include 1 pure tank, 1 semi tank (semi dps or semi caster ), 1-2dps, 1-2 caster.

Now you have to think about the team synergy: the ideal combination is: one initiator, one pusher, 2-3 stunner, slow or silence ( at least 1 massive stun (jax), 1 single point stun (rancor) ), 2-3 good AOE (kerrigan, toxic, vergil, rancor etc).

 

If you have all these elements in your team, with players who can actually play the heroes you pick, your team won't lose the game.

 

If both teams are nicely picked and consist with all skilled players, then the matte will be which team has better understanding of the game, and who initiate the battle better. Good example is the final matches of the tournament.

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i agree that ss tychus and null, maybe MK are autoban. this is the rules from the tour. but i don't want more heroes to be auto banned .. we gotta have some heroes to play with for god damn sake.. now ..6 auto + 6 ban... 12 heroes are banned.. .this is just stupid..

 

I guess some people who don't play bio or egon, just decide not to have them in the game. because these two heroes counter the heroes they play very well... for example rory, micro. nova, rancor .. and so on.

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In my opinion, strong heroes are : Jax, micro, drake, vorpoal, toxic, rory, tosh. These heroes are either banned or first around pick for both teams

(bio egon are autoban now )

2nd tier heroes are: Vergil, unix, kerrigan, rancor,

 

 

Good tank: micro, drake, erekul, lz, balrog, vorpal, toxic (semi tank)

Good dps: Kerrigan, tosh, nova, shadow, darpa,

Good caster: jax, rory, vergil, unix, rancor, raynor, cyprus

Good pusher: unix, queen, mule ..

 

A good team hero combination should include 1 pure tank, 1 semi tank (semi dps or semi caster ), 1-2dps, 1-2 caster.

Now you have to think about the team synergy: the ideal combination is: one initiator, one pusher, 2-3 stunner, slow or silence ( at least 1 massive stun (jax), 1 single point stun (rancor) ), 2-3 good AOE (kerrigan, toxic, vergil, rancor etc).

 

If you have all these elements in your team, with players who can actually play the heroes you pick, your team won't lose the game.

 

If both teams are nicely picked and consist with all skilled players, then the matte will be which team has better understanding of the game, and who initiate the battle better. Good example is the final matches of the tournament.

 

John +4 won 2 games, 1 game with classic combo, jax vorpal vergil .... ( how can NA players let you pick this combination, it is impossible to counter, unless egon is survived and gives the team instantly massive heal, or tosh stuns them before the combo is executed . )

2nd game, thanks to damn egon. His massive healing skill with eternal drive is just op in 5v5 group battle. LOOK at that toxic, bolaed, thrown, silenced .. and still managed to survive at the end ... (toxic is good .. but i think mvp would be egon in that game.)

I disagree with you. Toxi is not a tier 1 hero, neither is tosh, bot of them is high tier, but not among the strongest. Rory is pretty bad at the moment.

 

Also, the only hero in the game that can go under the definition tank, is balrog, since he's the only str hero that gains hp, and isn't a decent initiator, like drake and micro are. You don't need tanks in your team, you need initiation, just look at game 2 in the finals of the tournament, we had no str heroes, and still won it convincingly.

 

I don't think we ran vorpal vergil jackson a single time, pretty sure we didn't manage to get that vs any NA team. I know we ran Jackson+Vergil twice. And I think we ran Vorpal Vergil once in the groupstage, but not a single time did we get all three of the heroes.

 

The 2nd game from the finals that you're talking about was actually the third, the first one wasn't streamed.

i agree that ss tychus and null, maybe MK are autoban. this is the rules from the tour. but i don't want more heroes to be auto banned .. we gotta have some heroes to play with for god damn sake.. now ..6 auto + 6 ban... 12 heroes are banned.. .this is just stupid..

 

I guess some people who don't play bio or egon, just decide not to have them in the game. because these two heroes counter the heroes they play very well... for example rory, micro. nova, rancor .. and so on.

 

 

PS: updated with hero tier list.

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all right, i will not comment on the final in details .. miss some points for myself.. anyway, the team did great job on team synergy and hero picking.

 

toxic is maybe overrated, but it is still one of the most popular hero in the inhouse game, a strong tanky toxic with right items is always a big problem for the other team, especially in the late game, when toxic has all the items. it is tanky and dps! The problem of using toxic is that some people don't know how to farm effectively, and get the right building order. Look at African's tanky toxic build. Personally i think it is the best way of playing toxic at the moment, it requires some micro skill and farming skill. You have to get the items fast, before you lost all tier 2 towers ..

 

Tosh is damn strong, if a right player play it. no more comment on him, because we have a top tosh player in the clan, and the opponent team always ban tosh because of him (maybe). I have seen how powerful and useful tosh can contribute to the team.

 

Rory ... still .. depends on the player, he needs farm in the early game, get the book fast. He needs protectors in the mid game, which means some players will scarify themselves for rory. It is like a baby sitter for rory. In the late game, rory is a good initiator and a 5v5 fighter.

 

Balrog is for special use...

 

I still insist at least one tank in the team.. the game shab mentioned had actually two semi tank, toxic and vorpal, ... and an egon who did excellent job. the opponents didnt have enough dps.. they had too many initiators ..

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all right, i will not comment on the final in details .. miss some points for myself.. anyway, the team did great job on team synergy and hero picking.

 

toxic is maybe overrated, but it is still one of the most popular hero in the inhouse game, a strong tanky toxic with right items is always a big problem for the other team, especially in the late game, when toxic has all the items. it is tanky and dps! The problem of using toxic is that some people don't know how to farm effectively, and get the right building order. Look at African's tanky toxic build. Personally i think it is the best way of playing toxic at the moment, it requires some micro skill and farming skill. You have to get the items fast, before you lost all tier 2 towers ..

 

Tosh is damn strong, if a right player play it. no more comment on him, because we have a top tosh player in the clan, and the opponent team always ban tosh because of him (maybe). I have seen how powerful and useful tosh can contribute to the team.

 

Rory ... still .. depends on the player, he needs farm in the early game, get the book fast. He needs protectors in the mid game, which means some players will scarify themselves for rory. It is like a baby sitter for rory. In the late game, rory is a good initiator and a 5v5 fighter.

 

Balrog is for special use...

 

I still insist at least one tank in the team.. the game shab mentioned had actually two semi tank, toxic and vorpal, ... and an egon who did excellent job. the opponents didnt have enough dps.. they had too many initiators ..

Rory should never get lockbox, he should go blink instead. There is no need for lockbox anyways. The game I'm talking about we had Jackson, Vergil, Rancor, Raynor and Grunty. No tanks. The game you are talking about was game 3 of the finals.
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Also, the only hero in the game that can go under the definition tank, is balrog, since he's the only str hero that gains hp, and isn't a decent initiator, like drake and micro are.

In my opinion natural damage resistance is also an attribute of tank and Drake or Tychus are better tanks than Balrog, at least late game. So not sure why only Balrog can go under definition of 'tank'. Micro gaining hp as well. Drake with hero kills.

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