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What you need more than anything else is an initiation item. Warp Shard/SHC is the best, Phase Cloak/Shinobi, Lockbox, or Impact Dial are second best. Take your pick of whatever you feel best with/is most relevant to the situation and opposition. Next thing you need is to decide what role you want to fill. Leo is very versatile and can go just about any which way. Durability is important, you'll want a decent supply of HP and some spell resist as well as Agi items which do double-duty as weapon damage and armor. Since Mirror Force returns damage pre-mitigation, having lots of armor/spell resist means you'll take relatively less damage compared to what you reflect back. For example, if you have 50% spell resist and 30% reflect and the enemy hits you with 100 spell damage, you'll take 50 because of the resist but you won't return 30% of the 50, you'll return 30% of the full 100. It's a nice help vs heroes like Drake or Boros because they'll keep tagging it with their constant AoE and the damage is True type so it will pierce their innate spell resist. Much harder (but also much more rewarding) is to use it intuitively to reflect back a nuke like Cyprus's ult. From this point, you can go for spell effects to spread around such as SHM + Nitrogen. Not only will you slow everyone near you, but your ult will help tag targets further away. Or go for straight up caster damage stacking Int and CDR to abuse your Ult. Or go for a DPS build and rely on your burst attack speed. I find lightning rod is a good starting item on him because it gives a nice buffer of HP as well as attack speed. But your biggest asset is mobility. Leo is all about mobility; get in, do your thing, get out. Keep dancing around and through the fight. The trick is to be aggressive without being reckless. Also, you MUST have a competent team. Leo will wreck their shap, but he has to have people backing him up. I'll say it again, you MUST have backup from your team... you'll get monster kills but not all on your own unless the other team are complete flobtards.

 

So, to sum it up, mobility, aggression without recklessness, and team support are your main weapons. Use them. Abuse them.

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What you need more than anything else is an initiation item. Warp Shard/SHC is the best, Phase Cloak/Shinobi, Lockbox, or Impact Dial are second best. Take your pick of whatever you feel best with/is most relevant to the situation and opposition. Next thing you need is to decide what role you want to fill. Leo is very versatile and can go just about any which way. Durability is important, you'll want a decent supply of HP and some spell resist as well as Agi items which do double-duty as weapon damage and armor. Since Mirror Force returns damage pre-mitigation, having lots of armor/spell resist means you'll take relatively less damage compared to what you reflect back. For example, if you have 50% spell resist and 30% reflect and the enemy hits you with 100 spell damage, you'll take 50 because of the resist but you won't return 30% of the 50, you'll return 30% of the full 100. It's a nice help vs heroes like Drake or Boros because they'll keep tagging it with their constant AoE and the damage is True type so it will pierce their innate spell resist. Much harder (but also much more rewarding) is to use it intuitively to reflect back a nuke like Cyprus's ult. From this point, you can go for spell effects to spread around such as SHM + Nitrogen. Not only will you slow everyone near you, but your ult will help tag targets further away. Or go for straight up caster damage stacking Int and CDR to abuse your Ult. Or go for a DPS build and rely on your burst attack speed. I find lightning rod is a good starting item on him because it gives a nice buffer of HP as well as attack speed. But your biggest asset is mobility. Leo is all about mobility; get in, do your thing, get out. Keep dancing around and through the fight. The trick is to be aggressive without being reckless. Also, you MUST have a competent team. Leo will wreck their shap, but he has to have people backing him up. I'll say it again, you MUST have backup from your team... you'll get monster kills but not all on your own unless the other team are complete flobtards.

 

So, to sum it up, mobility, aggression without recklessness, and team support are your main weapons. Use them. Abuse them.

Care to explain your choices/logic behind whatever you say? Mostly thinking about the first sentence.
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Yea, Tanky DPS has always been the way to go for Leo. Back when his E reflected 120%, it was fairly effective to just go hp and Barbed. Nowadays, I would go

 

FoE to slow enemies so you can continue to attack them and for the hp

SFG for the leech, the INT to compliment your Q and R as well as for mana, and the active is nice to get enemies below that 45% hp so your W speed boost kicks in

Timesplitter for the good weapon speed, Agil, and damage, and lowering their Timescale will slow them down as well to continue your attacks

Black HoleMagnum for the good Agility and other stats, as well as your Q is decently spammable to procure the effect

 

Other items could be

Pyre

Barbed and Electric Mantle if they have lots of AA and you can stack hp and E and R them

Nitrogen Retrofit for even more hp and INT scaling with R and Q, as well as extra slow if you have spell damage in your AA

Aggresor's Guise movement speed buff, health, agility, and I think SR?

 

I would also imagine a Crit build being very good on him with Cerebro, Khali, and Lethal Barb to spam Q and E and go rest Hp items

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No.

So it's just crazy ramblings then, very well.

I think cause most aa heroes have an initiation, bola, planar, vortex....

Doesn't mean it's right to do so on any AA hero ;)

 

I'd like to see a Drow Ranger with a blink dagger, would be fun :)

 

I suggest you all ignore the post of midknight, if he can't explain the logic behind his choices, it means that either it's bad. or non existent, in any case you don't want to follow his advice.

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So it's just crazy ramblings then, very well.

Doesn't mean it's right to do so on any AA hero ;)

 

I'd like to see a Drow Ranger with a blink dagger, would be fun :)

 

I suggest you all ignore the post of midknight, if he can't explain the logic behind his choices, it means that either it's bad. or non existent, in any case you don't want to follow his advice.

I'll take any, I'm clueless on how to play kitty, and when I do see a kitty in pub they're pretty bad (like me), so I wanna be the kitty role model!

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[Protip: Ignore this first part if you don't like off-topic-ness pertaining to Shab]

 

@Shab

 

Midknight has proved to be, time after time after time, good at the game and has proved that his strategies are very useful for playing a hero-- maybe as you get better, you find that there are better ways to build the hero-- but Midknight has always given stable points to start from as well as plenty of detailed advice in multiple ways. In here, he says to give Kitty an SHC as the SHC helps Leo start attacking-- something that he actually has a lot of trouble with-- and then the durability to stay there and keep attacking.

Meanwhile, all I see you do is respond to paragraphs with single sentences and quote the whole paragraph, and on top of that you don't ever back up any of your claims. To put a hat on that, you generally flame the other users for their opinions and what-have-you, or fail to read the posts of others with an eye of scrutiny. If you read Midknight's post more carefully, you could deduce his reasoning by having played a few games with Leo first [which is the sort of advice that the Original Post asked for, anyway], so I see no reason why you insist that he's bad at the game in the slightest as he can back up his claims using evidence from the requester's/your/everybody's games, and how the person asking for advice is the one that Midknight is talking to-- not you.

 

 

---

 

And back on topic; I feel that Leo is best build with a few essential core items-- as a strong, slightly tanky hero that has the ability to utterly wipe creep waves as well as heroes with his Ultimate:

Build 1: Support-based

Warp Shard -- This is so you just leap into the fray.

Super Heated Mantle -- For some minor bonus damage, but mainly to procure the effects of...

Nitrogen Retrofit -- Slowing the enemies so you can catch up and to help your team blast the enemies.

Shinobi Style -- It grants really good stats for Leo-- Health, Agility, and Weapon Damage-- and gives you a handy-dandy Cloak to get away or chase down enemies with.

Force of Entropy -- Yeah, not one of the best DPS items but it gives you some tankability and thus makes you rely on your Ulti for damage-- which is okay, as you can still be a menace with your other abilities more often as well.

Phantom Menace -- It is a really powerful item, it grants 50 Agility and movespeed when you aren't engaging enemy heroes, which'll help you farm.

 

Build 2: Critical Ultimate based

Small Hadron Collider -- Blinnnk innn aaannndd ssttunn.

Cerebro -- The core of the build, it gives INT for the Ulti and Crit Chance for its own Unique. [+22]

Khali Blade -- Goal here is ~100% Critical Chance and this item gives tons of Weapon Damage anyway. [+20]

 

Um, I don't remember the rest of the Critical Items, but basically you should be able to get the gist of it... Build Critical and Weapon Damage and get some Health where you can.

 

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I make an hybrid of dps and tank with darwins, foe, time splitter, pyre, hom and phantom menace. Spooky play a very good Leo so if he see your thread he can help you better than i could

I've tried Leo 3 times in pub and once in inhouse (reversed draft pick) since new version came out. So I can't say I'm good with this char.

 

Anyway I found him as great ganker, very similar to shadow with his play style. I don't agree with any initiation item on him like Warp Shard or Impact Dial. It is waste of item slot. He doesn't need it at all. He has one of the highest movement speed anyway. U wouldn't get this kind of item on shadow as well. During laning faze he may have a problems against many lane compositions. It isn't easy to farm this way with him. So much better is go jungle and after level 6 ganking every time he can kill someone. For items I would get:

- HoM - it is my first item after matchete or double matchete. Great synergy with Leo ulti, leech, movement speed and its quite cheap. U should have this item before lvl 11

- FoE - helps stick to target, 1k hp

- Pyre - it is the best dps item

- Parallax Generator - debuffs can make your ulti completely useless

- Yomato Reactor - activate it with HoM and ulti - and u become extremely fast with high weapon speed and increased spell damage output (from Pyre as well)

- last item depends on enemy composition. If u have problems with Caster u may get, for example, Galactic Defender. If u have problem with AA carries get Shrapnel Cloak. U can also provide yourself more sustainability with Darwin's Might or just focus on damage output (Khali Blade / BHM)

 

Good idea is also consider Olympics Torch after HoM for snowballing. Don't forget to get Ihan Crystal at some point (sell it after get all the stacks). I think Leo can be build in many ways. Have no idea which build could be the best. U need some sustainability for sure. And never engage in first lane. Let your team initiate then come from nowhere and finish low health heroes.

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I suggest you all ignore the post of midknight, if he can't explain the logic behind his choices, it means that either it's bad. or non existent, in any case you don't want to follow his advice.

 

What makes you think that because I don't care to, I'm unable to? You asked if I care to explain... I don't care to because the points are either already explained or painfully obvious. Now if you'd like me to explain anyway, you have to ask that.

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What makes you think that because I don't care to, I'm unable to? You asked if I care to explain... I don't care to because the points are either already explained or painfully obvious. Now if you'd like me to explain anyway, you have to ask that.

 

Lets just say leo shouldn't be initiating. His main downfall is that he is very susceptible to stuns and other CC so he should only be entering the fight after your team has initiated and he can chase down and dps down their heroes. It's kinda like initiating with kerrigan its just a bad idea

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[Protip: Ignore this first part if you don't like off-topic-ness pertaining to Shab]

 

@Shab

 

Midknight has proved to be, time after time after time, good at the game and has proved that his strategies are very useful for playing a hero-- maybe as you get better, you find that there are better ways to build the hero-- but Midknight has always given stable points to start from as well as plenty of detailed advice in multiple ways. In here, he says to give Kitty an SHC as the SHC helps Leo start attacking-- something that he actually has a lot of trouble with-- and then the durability to stay there and keep attacking.

Meanwhile, all I see you do is respond to paragraphs with single sentences and quote the whole paragraph, and on top of that you don't ever back up any of your claims. To put a hat on that, you generally flame the other users for their opinions and what-have-you, or fail to read the posts of others with an eye of scrutiny. If you read Midknight's post more carefully, you could deduce his reasoning by having played a few games with Leo first [which is the sort of advice that the Original Post asked for, anyway], so I see no reason why you insist that he's bad at the game in the slightest as he can back up his claims using evidence from the requester's/your/everybody's games, and how the person asking for advice is the one that Midknight is talking to-- not you.

 

The reason I quoted the entire paragraph was that I was in a time rush, I apologize for that. Me never backing up any of my claims is a lie, I ~always back up my claims if needed, and if you were a part of the old forums (which I know you were) you have probably read both my guide on Micro, and my guide on positioning, which is the most backed up guides that was ever written on that forum. That you managed to say that I never back up my claims is... baffling really. I have no clue how you got that idea.

 

I never claimed he was bad at the game for your information, you're accusing me for not reading posts "with an eye of scrutiny" while you just fail to read a post.

 

If you ever want to get good at the game, you need to stop asking how stuff works, and instead ask WHY it works. Because all builds are always situational, and if you don't know why something is good, you won't be able to mix it up when it's needed.

 

You're welcome.

 

PS: I never claimed SHC was bad on Kitty, I claimed that if you build an item on a hero, but you don't know why, then how can you know if it's good or not?

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[Protip: Ignore this first part if you don't like off-topic-ness pertaining to Shab]

 

@Sheb

 

Meedknight hes prufed tu be-a, teeme-a effter teeme-a effter teeme-a, guud et zee geme-a und hes prufed thet hees stretegeees ere-a fery useffool fur pleyeeng a heru-- meybe-a es yuoo get better, yuoo feend thet zeere-a ere-a better veys tu booeeld zee heru-- boot Meedknight hes elveys geefee steble-a pueents tu stert frum es vell es plenty ooff deteeeled edfeece-a in moolteeple-a veys. Um gesh dee bork, bork! In here-a, he-a seys tu geefe-a Keetty un SHC es zee SHC helps Leu stert etteckeeng-- sumetheeng thet he-a ectooelly hes a lut ooff truooble-a veet-- und zeen zee doorebeelity tu stey zeere-a und keep etteckeeng.

Meunvheele-a, ell I see-a yuoo du is respund tu peregrephs veet seengle-a sentences und qooute-a zee vhule-a peregreph, und oon tup ooff thet yuoo dun't ifer beck up uny ooff yuoor cleeems. Um gesh dee bork, bork! Tu poot a het oon thet, yuoo generelly fleme-a zee oozeer users fur zeeur oopeeniuns und vhet-hefe-a-yuoo, oor feeel tu reed zee pusts ooff oozeers veet un iye-a ooff scrooteeny. Bork bork bork! Iff yuoo reed Meedknight's pust mure-a cereffoolly, yuoo cuoold dedooce-a hees reesuneeng by hefeeng pleyed a foo gemes veet Leu furst [vheech is zee surt ooff edfeece-a thet zee Ooreeginel Pust esked fur, unyvey], su I see-a nu reesun vhy yuoo inseest thet he-a's bed et zee geme-a in zee sleeghtest es he-a cun beck up hees cleeems useeng ifeedence-a frum zee reqooester's/yuoor/iferybudy's gemes, und hoo zee persun eskeeng fur edfeece-a is zee oone-a thet Meedknight is telkeeng tu-- nut yuu. Hurty flurty schnipp schnipp!

 

 

I don't think he fully understood... so I fixed it for you.

 

Lets just say leo shouldn't be initiating. His main downfall is that he is very susceptible to stuns and other CC so he should only be entering the fight after your team has initiated and he can chase down and dps down their heroes. It's kinda like initiating with kerrigan its just a bad idea

 

He needs to be able to get into melee range with relative safety. He is vulnerable to stuns, cc, etc. so when they see him coming, they'll unload those on him. I listed the most viable that came to mind; Warp/SCH, etc. etc. but it wasn't an exhaustive list... it was, however, appropriate for someone who wants a basic build from which to work from and make his own design changes to. Yes, you could use HoM or Parallax for getting in close, but those are more advanced strategies for him to work on after he's mastered Leo 101.

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He needs to be able to get into melee range with relative safety. He is vulnerable to stuns, cc, etc. so when they see him coming, they'll unload those on him. I listed the most viable that came to mind; Warp/SCH, etc. etc. but it wasn't an exhaustive list... it was, however, appropriate for someone who wants a basic build from which to work from and make his own design changes to. Yes, you could use HoM or Parallax for getting in close, but those are more advanced strategies for him to work on after he's mastered Leo 101.

Still I don't think so Leo needs SHC. When your team initiate then enemies use theirs stuns, slows, debuffs on your teammates and after it Leo comes in. Opponents are almost defend-less at that point and u can do a lot of damage with your ulti. Leo has really fast movement speed with his heroic and his passive. Especially with HoM and YR activated which gives him also killing power.

 

Btw. As I remember BHM has no internal cooldown anymore (used to be 3 sec). So with Cerebro, Khali Blade and BHM Leo can spam his Q and BHM effect like there is no tomorrow.

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If you're on a pub team with no coordination then I think SHC would be good to initiate. In an IH, a tank or Jackson would be the best approach and have Leo sneak in like a Shadow. However, I don't think a SHC would hurt, useful for 1v1 initiation, aids in chasing and escaping, and the extra hp and Timescale helps. It's really a good item on any hero, especially if you have an enemy micro, Boros, LZ etc that you need to escape from after being thrown or trapped.

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If you're on a pub team with no coordination then I think SHC would be good to initiate. In an IH, a tank or Jackson would be the best approach and have Leo sneak in like a Shadow. However, I don't think a SHC would hurt, useful for 1v1 initiation, aids in chasing and escaping, and the extra hp and Timescale helps. It's really a good item on any hero, especially if you have an enemy micro, Boros, LZ etc that you need to escape from after being thrown or trapped.

If I could have any item on any hero I would take it. Problem is that there's better items, and that items have a cost.
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If I could have any item on any hero I would take it. Problem is that there's better items, and that items have a cost.

 

Maybe so, but I would never yell or complain at a team mate for getting a SMC. Not that I'm saying you are, I just find the item quite useful, and the AoE stun can be quite useful if your whole team goes SMC, then you're all like Tosh's Spectres ;D perma stun ftw. But really, all items are situational(to a degree) so the best thing to do is give players a run down of the useful items on a hero and the situations they would be good in. Obviously there is not 6 items every Leo player must have to be the best.

 

Sorry, I just find SMC is a very good all around item.

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