Jump to content

Taking Rancor from Burst to Support


NoWaterJustIce
 Share

Recommended Posts

Right now Rancor is a beast of a hero that is borderline op with his snipe. at max items (which arent hard to get considering u will have a ridicules number of kills and a minimal number of deaths if u are even a half decent rancor) his snipe will do slightly over 2k dmg every 8ish seconds and 35% of that dmg being true dmg. not only does it do that much dmg on a short cd it also stuns which makes the skill almost as good as a system ulti but on a much much shorter cd. some people are considering just lowering the int scaling on his cloak snipe to 125 or 100% but i have a slightly more radical idea :D

 

presenting support rancor(note this is basically reworking rancor)

 

Primary attribute- make him an int hero

 

HP- leave it alone. as a support hero he will need to buy lots of wards for his team and at half price nobody is a better choice to buy them and with his perma cloak hes the best chioce to have place them behind enemy lines.

 

Snipe- Change 50% weapon dmg scaling to 50% int scaling

 

Scan- lower the cd on scan to something like 30/22/14/6 seconds as to increase his team support utility

 

Cloak- remove the extra dmg to snipe while cloaked and instead make snipe cloaking do 1 of 3 things.

1-add stun duration to snipe(1-2 seconds)

2-when sniping while cloaked rancor will uncloak but snipe cd will be refreshed allowing him to snipe twice in a row.(may need to reduce int scaling on snipe to 30-40% if this part were to be done)

3-bring back aoe cloak but increase cost/make it cost energy per second per hero being cloaked.

 

nukes-reduce cd on charges to 15 seconds and reduce dmg one nuke to something like 100/140/180(+25-40%int). the increase dmg radius by like 1 and add spell amplification to all enemies hit by nuke, say 15/25/35% spell amp for 5-10 seconds

 

Making these changes would take rancor from being a burst caster to being a true support hero which aos is severely lacking at the moment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

nukes with 25-40% int scaling? we dont want useless nukes ~_~ if you reduce the int scaling, then buff the dmg significantly

 

pls read before u post. the nukes will amplify spell dmg on all targets meaning that if u hit say 2 nukes on most of the team its 30/50/70& spell amp on all of them for 5-10 seconds. and thats only if u hit with two. the point of this suggesting, if u actually read it, is to make rancor a support hero and not a burst caster. so if u can get off 1-3 before a team fight ur team will have a significant advantage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

pls read before u post. the nukes will amplify spell dmg on all targets meaning that if u hit say 2 nukes on most of the team its 30/50/70& spell amp on all of them for 5-10 seconds. and thats only if u hit with two. the point of this suggesting, if u actually read it, is to make rancor a support hero and not a burst caster. so if u can get off 1-3 before a team fight ur team will have a significant advantage.

 

even with the spell amp, not always you have the 3 nukes rdy, I mean, sometimes you can 1 or maybe 2 nukes and even with the spell amp, they would deal minor damage, specially in the late game, I know the spell amp can help, but when even AA heros can reach 3k hp with 2 items your support rancor (imo) will support nothing.

 

personally i dont want rancor changed to support, he can support pretty well right now, warding and nuking in teamfights with his nukes who scale with 75% int, he can also push lanes without being there, so as i see it i think actual rancor would support better than the rancor you suggest

Link to comment
Share on other sites

even with the spell amp, not always you have the 3 nukes rdy, I mean, sometimes you can 1 or maybe 2 nukes and even with the spell amp, they would deal minor damage, specially in the late game, I know the spell amp can help, but when even AA heros can reach 3k hp with 2 items your support rancor (imo) will support nothing.

 

personally i dont want rancor changed to support, he can support pretty well right now, warding and nuking in teamfights with his nukes who scale with 75% int, he can also push lanes without being there, so as i see it i think actual rancor would support better than the rancor you suggest

 

i also suggested lowering the cd on the nukes pls read. and rancor isnt adding spell amp for himself its so that other casters and aa heros can do way more dmg. think of the 5% of pyre dmg doing 70%more (8.5%) every attack or a shadow shade that already does 6-700 dmg doing 70% more... the point is not that the nukes do dmg the point is that he makes everyone else do way more dmg than they usually would.

 

the problem is that rancor is no longer supporting teams but carrying them. as it stands rancor needs a slight nerf but i personally dont want him to be just another burst caster which if u nerf his q dmg he would still fill that role well but rather change him so that he is pure support. (the only real support right now is egon and maybe maar)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i also suggested lowering the cd on the nukes pls read. and rancor isnt adding spell amp for himself its so that other casters and aa heros can do way more dmg. think of the 5% of pyre dmg doing 70%more (8.5%) every attack or a shadow shade that already does 6-700 dmg doing 70% more... the point is not that the nukes do dmg the point is that he makes everyone else do way more dmg than they usually would.

 

the problem is that rancor is no longer supporting teams but carrying them. as it stands rancor needs a slight nerf but i personally dont want him to be just another burst caster which if u nerf his q dmg he would still fill that role well but rather change him so that he is pure support. (the only real support right now is egon and maybe maar)

 

I ask you please to stop say read the post, I did it several times.

 

marine king is support, brine is support, balrog is tank support, jackson is support, If you count as support someone who heal or smth like that you are missing tons of points,

marine king support with AS buff and push power, brine support with plucks, balrog support with passive leech and debuff removal, jackson support with global silences etc.

 

Rancor as carry is not a problem, he is so far from op, if the other team is retard he will be fed and he will have massive INT, that's what happend with every carry, you are accustomed to AA carries but caster carries can exist too. If rancor is nerfed because he scale well with new items we should consider look every hero because EVERY hero is better now with items, tanks are more tanky, carries are more painful and casters have stronger nukes

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I ask you please to stop say read the post, I did it several times.

 

marine king is support, brine is support, balrog is tank support, jackson is support, If you count as support someone who heal or smth like that you are missing tons of points,

marine king support with AS buff and push power, brine support with plucks, balrog support with passive leech and debuff removal, jackson support with silences etc.

 

Rancor as carry is not a problem, he is so far from op, if the other team is retard he will be fed and he will have massive INT, that's what happend with every carry, you are accustomed to AA carries but caster carries can exist too. If rancor is nerfed because he scale well with new items we should consider look every hero because EVERY hero is better now with items, tanks are more tanky, carries are more painful and casters have stronger nukes

 

im sorry i just thought u hadnt read my op based off of your posts. Personally i feel that there is a difference between a support and a tank, initiators, pushers, and burst casters. just because ur not a carry doesnt make u a support. in my experience supports are often there to help feed the carry(or other person in their lane). usually supports dont really need items to be useful partly because they wont be getting many last hits or farming much as this money is needed for the carry, and much of their money they do get is spent on wards. there really arent any heros in sotis that fit that role(though there are a few that have support skills like the ones u mentioned but they are not support heros). its all about building dmg and as much as u can or building tanky dmg and if u half to build a support item its taking away from the rest of your build.

 

the difference between rancor and other heros is that none of them have a move that has 150%int scaling that can fire off every 10 seconds. meaning he benefits from stacking int more than any other hero. it is plain that rancor is slightly to strong and so he needs a SLIGHT nerf. i am just suggesting that he be changed into a support hero which would be easy to do as his skills are already supporty instead of nerfing him

Link to comment
Share on other sites

im sorry i just thought u hadnt read my op based off of your posts. Personally i feel that there is a difference between a support and a tank, initiators, pushers, and burst casters. just because ur not a carry doesnt make u a support. in my experience supports are often there to help feed the carry(or other person in their lane). usually supports dont really need items to be useful partly because they wont be getting many last hits or farming much as this money is needed for the carry, and much of their money they do get is spent on wards. there really arent any heros in sotis that fit that role(though there are a few that have support skills like the ones u mentioned but they are not support heros). its all about building dmg and as much as u can or building tanky dmg and if u half to build a support item its taking away from the rest of your build.

 

the difference between rancor and other heros is that none of them have a move that has 150%int scaling that can fire off every 10 seconds. meaning he benefits from stacking int more than any other hero. it is plain that rancor is slightly to strong and so he needs a SLIGHT nerf. i am just suggesting that he be changed into a support hero which would be easy to do as his skills are already supporty instead of nerfing him

 

You are too nice quistmann. Residente made two posts that failed to take into account things you mentioned in the OP. So if he actually did read your post, as he claims, then he clearly does not have the mental capacity to handle more than small bits of information.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are too nice quistmann. Residente made two posts that failed to take into account things you mentioned in the OP. So if he actually did read your post, as he claims, then he clearly does not have the mental capacity to handle more than small bits of information.

 

I'm not sure if you are an adult, the way you support your arguments are insults and more insults, you just have 0 respect to others, and you have 0 education. I don't know if you think you are funny or if you are better than anyone.

 

 

Keep crying about Rancor, have a nice day

Link to comment
Share on other sites

im sorry i just thought u hadnt read my op based off of your posts. Personally i feel that there is a difference between a support and a tank, initiators, pushers, and burst casters. just because ur not a carry doesnt make u a support. in my experience supports are often there to help feed the carry(or other person in their lane). usually supports dont really need items to be useful partly because they wont be getting many last hits or farming much as this money is needed for the carry, and much of their money they do get is spent on wards. there really arent any heros in sotis that fit that role(though there are a few that have support skills like the ones u mentioned but they are not support heros). its all about building dmg and as much as u can or building tanky dmg and if u half to build a support item its taking away from the rest of your build.

 

the difference between rancor and other heros is that none of them have a move that has 150%int scaling that can fire off every 10 seconds. meaning he benefits from stacking int more than any other hero. it is plain that rancor is slightly to strong and so he needs a SLIGHT nerf. i am just suggesting that he be changed into a support hero which would be easy to do as his skills are already supporty instead of nerfing him

 

I agree that supports don't need have items to make his role, but idk, for example I see a support when in teamfight, rancor spawn nukes dealing a nice amount of damage, that help the team to win that teamfight, ok maybe my support concept is wrong, i talk about offensive support not defensive. rancor's stun is also very helpful, specially agains heros like unix, rory, jackson, etc when you can make them stop using their spells. I think rancor dont need items to help in teamfights with nukes, and stop other heros with snipe.

 

I also want lower scans cd, scan is very powerful and helpful but i think the cooldown is so high right now.

 

The only hero who have more scale than rancor is Maar with his sap, he can sap more often than rancor, but he dont stun i know. A slight nerf could be reduce the int scale to 100% but no less, because if he scale less, I think he will loose a lot of things in this game.

 

 

 

To finish this, I want to thank your manners against me, is nice have someone to talk without being insulted just because we have different opinions, but there are ppl who didn't have a decent education during their childhood

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not sure if you are an adult, the way you support your arguments are insults and more insults, you just have 0 respect to others, and you have 0 education. I don't know if you think you are funny or if you are better than anyone.

 

 

Keep crying about Rancor, have a nice day

 

The irony...oh god the irony. I cant even begin to digest the amount of irony in this post.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree that supports don't need have items to make his role, but idk, for example I see a support when in teamfight, rancor spawn nukes dealing a nice amount of damage, that help the team to win that teamfight, ok maybe my support concept is wrong, i talk about offensive support not defensive. rancor's stun is also very helpful, specially agains heros like unix, rory, jackson, etc when you can make them stop using their spells. I think rancor dont need items to help in teamfights with nukes, and stop other heros with snipe.

 

I also want lower scans cd, scan is very powerful and helpful but i think the cooldown is so high right now.

 

The only hero who have more scale than rancor is Maar with his sap, he can sap more often than rancor, but he dont stun i know. A slight nerf could be reduce the int scale to 100% but no less, because if he scale less, I think he will loose a lot of things in this game.

 

 

 

To finish this, I want to thank your manners against me, is nice have someone to talk without being insulted just because we have different opinions, but there are ppl who didn't have a decent education during their childhood

 

with your definition of offensive support aa carries are support because they help your team kill the other team ;) personally i think they should give maar back his ability that cloaks the target unit instead of sap but thats prolly just me ^_^

 

if rancor had no items his nukes wouldnt do enough dmg and people could ignore them wheras the stun from his snipe would be effective the dmg would be non existant. its why i said that his skills are already supporty but with the ridicules scaling on his claok snipe and his good scaling on his nukes there is no reason to not go bonkers on everyone in sight. and u are right that by nerfing his snipe dmg to 125-100%int it would fix him i just think there should be more supports in the game and rancor would be an easy hero to change into one.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

with your definition of offensive support aa carries are support because they help your team kill the other team ;) personally i think they should give maar back his ability that cloaks the target unit instead of sap but thats prolly just me ^_^

 

if rancor had no items his nukes wouldnt do enough dmg and people could ignore them wheras the stun from his snipe would be effective the dmg would be non existant. its why i said that his skills are already supporty but with the ridicules scaling on his claok snipe and his good scaling on his nukes there is no reason to not go bonkers on everyone in sight. and u are right that by nerfing his snipe dmg to 125-100%int it would fix him i just think there should be more supports in the game and rancor would be an easy hero to change into one.

 

I liked to much the cloak spell of maar, it was so nice using on jackson to make him a ninja and kill anyone.

 

With offensive support i just meant that AoE spells, it's like jackson (not the same but an example) he deal nice amounts of damage with his ult, and it also give him the posibility of silence all the team that skill is offensive support for me, and his magnetic pressence is deffensive. I dont know, it's just the way i see the game :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Few things that popped into my head after reading OP:

 

1: Scan's new proposed cooldown is insane. With it, you can have uncounterable map vision, and just stack cooldown reduction, sit in pool, and spam scan. The other team would not be able to split up, due to ganks, which would lead to easy tower pushes by teams that split up. If you have a good AoE hero, say queen, nuking all the waves that the entire team sends at you, while Bio, Unix, and MK push down towers in other lanes, nothing would be done to stop it. Splitting up = getting ganked, pushing one lane = getting outpushed, taking neutrals = getting ganked, etc. Knowledge is power, and rancor would have too much of it.

 

2: Your cloak suggestions, the extra stun would be insane, rancor would become the best 1v1 hero after Zeratul, which goes far from making him support. Double Snipe is even worse, you could shut down multiple heroes, dealing more overall damage then he does now. AoE cloak would only be effective early on, midgame onwards, clumping up close to Rancor would make Ludicris Kills for Vorpal, Vergil, Mandrake, Dustin, Rory beyond easy. Right now, Truesight makes this skill too bad of a scaler.

 

3: Nuke suggestion is questionable, but it could work after tweaking numbers a bit. I would also suggest increasing int scaling per level as opposed to base damage, this lets him carry out better into the very late game.

 

4: The change to int would make him too strong. Right now, he is trading off DPS for Burst by going int builds. Even with your lower % Int scaling, he would be doing too much DPS + Burst Damage, especially with Star Fury.

 

5: Rancor may be incredibly strong with the new items, but a change of roles for him is not an idea I like. Ever since MartY created the masterpiece guide "Rancor, Solo Operative" and probably well before that, Rancor was a lone wolf sniper. Whatever you played him as, Timescale, Agility, or Int, or whether you remember killing of the greatest tanks from full hp with a nuke-snipe at level 6 during v2-3, he was THAT hero. He has endured the entire history of this game, from its inception as SotIS, outlasting every hero that briefly (and sometimes not so briefly) held the "most op" crown. Here he is now, still essentially what he was before, a perfect design, an ultimate assassin, kdr champion, solo pub destroyer, funnest, most versatile, and epic hero in the history of this game. Changing him is just a bad idea, period.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Few things that popped into my head after reading OP:

 

-most of these are just suggestions and numbers are not exact just pointing it in a direction that would make rancor not a burst caster

 

1: Scan's new proposed cooldown is insane. With it, you can have uncounterable map vision, and just stack cooldown reduction, sit in pool, and spam scan. The other team would not be able to split up, due to ganks, which would lead to easy tower pushes by teams that split up. If you have a good AoE hero, say queen, nuking all the waves that the entire team sends at you, while Bio, Unix, and MK push down towers in other lanes, nothing would be done to stop it. Splitting up = getting ganked, pushing one lane = getting outpushed, taking neutrals = getting ganked, etc. Knowledge is power, and rancor would have too much of it.

 

- 6 seconds is probably too short but most i was think of just lowering the cd on it especially at lower levels because it has a very very long cd. and support makes other heros op

 

2: Your cloak suggestions, the extra stun would be insane, rancor would become the best 1v1 hero after Zeratul, which goes far from making him support. Double Snipe is even worse, you could shut down multiple heroes, dealing more overall damage then he does now. AoE cloak would only be effective early on, midgame onwards, clumping up close to Rancor would make Ludicris Kills for Vorpal, Vergil, Mandrake, Dustin, Rory beyond easy. Right now, Truesight makes this skill too bad of a scaler.

 

-though he can stun longer he would have no dmg to back it up so he would not be great at 1v1 as he would be at ganking in a 2v1 or 2v3 situation. sniping twice does not shut down multiple heros. i said doing this u would have to farther lower the int scaling (along from removing the 150%int scaling from cloak snipe) so it would be so he could split is cc or cc one person for longer. ur right about the last part but again im just throwing things out there.

 

3: Nuke suggestion is questionable, but it could work after tweaking numbers a bit. I would also suggest increasing int scaling per level as opposed to base damage, this lets him carry out better into the very late game.

 

-increasing int scaling is pointless when he isnt supposed to be doing any dmg anyways. if u read the nukes amp dmg so that they rest of his team would do significantly more dmg with each nuke hit

 

4: The change to int would make him too strong. Right now, he is trading off DPS for Burst by going int builds. Even with your lower % Int scaling, he would be doing too much DPS + Burst Damage, especially with Star Fury.

 

-if u leave him agi i feel like it would make it too tempting to go aa rancor whereas with int if u take away the increadible scaling it is harder for him to do so. (i may be wrong here)

 

5: Rancor may be incredibly strong with the new items, but a change of roles for him is not an idea I like. Ever since MartY created the masterpiece guide "Rancor, Solo Operative" and probably well before that, Rancor was a lone wolf sniper. Whatever you played him as, Timescale, Agility, or Int, or whether you remember killing of the greatest tanks from full hp with a nuke-snipe at level 6 during v2-3, he was THAT hero. He has endured the entire history of this game, from its inception as SotIS, outlasting every hero that briefly (and sometimes not so briefly) held the "most op" crown. Here he is now, still essentially what he was before, a perfect design, an ultimate assassin, kdr champion, solo pub destroyer, funnest, most versatile, and epic hero in the history of this game. Changing him is just a bad idea, period.

 

-i will say that Rancor is my main hero and i love him as he is right now. but the matter of fact is that he is getting a nerf in the near future and i dont want to see him nerfed into nothing. this is just an idea to make him not another burst kill everying hero(like just about every hero, that isnt a tank, is) besides all his skills while making him a wonderful assasin hero are all also very supporty :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...