Jump to content

Current meta-pushing


Spooky
 Share

Recommended Posts

I realized recently that if u are able to out-push your opponents then u can easily win the game. Very simple tactic which even doesn't require good teamplay. Just push towers as fast as possible, earn money, make snowball roll and finish the game before it go into late game stage. Problem is there is no counter tactic other than same tactic. Pushers make many heroes totally useless, especially those which require close distance or squishy ones. They just have no space to do what they suppose to do. U can't do a shap if u are surrounded by thousands of minions. I know there are many heroes with lots of AoE but it would only gives u little bit more time. Eventually tower would go down. They are limited by its cooldowns and mana pool, they can't handle every creep/minions wave. So just get Bio, King, Unix in one team and its GG. Within first 20 minutes u can take all T2 towers, Aeon and Levi.

I think all pushers like Marine King, Bio and Unix need some tweaks. I don't know, maybe make their minions to do less damage to structures or give towers some kind of flat damage reduction? Reduce number of minions or their dps? Especially King need some further nerfs as he scale with other pushers extremely well. Bosses also needs some flat damage reduction or make Bio ulti able to work only on heroes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In like 90% of the game when i meet pushers i lose 1/2 t3 towers and then win by teamwiping. Don't think it's OP.

 

this only happens if you have a good team around you and you make it into the very late game, where money plays no role anymore.

 

I don't share the opinion that pushing towers is a too strong tactic, i have a problem with tower pushers themselves.

 

Take unix for example, he is a strong pusher, and can also 1vs1 many heroes with his ulti. take bio, he is a strong pusher, and can kill many heroes, or at least keep them away from the tower. take marine king, with his marines, he kills some heroes almost instantly. take tychus, also a good 1vs1 hero.

 

so our problem is not the pushing itself. the problem is that pushers are not only pushers, they are also good 1vs1 fighters. ofc, every of them has a counter, but this is not the sense. if you are a pusher hero, you may take down towers with ease, but you have to be the loser in a 1vs1 in at least 75% of the cases, and this is absolutely not the case.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Zero!

 

Remember we are talking about IH.. And a solo Unix, biotron, mk is food!!.. Also you can't play mirror.. So one team must have 2 of them.. And that's enough for push while te others are distracting the enemy team...

 

I totally agree with Spooky!! I think a good counter could be Erakul.. To kill all this minions.. Infestors.. :p

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Zero!

 

Remember we are talking about IH.. And a solo Unix, biotron, mk is food!!.. Also you can't play mirror.. So one team must have 2 of them.. And that's enough for push while te others are distracting the enemy team...

 

I totally agree with Spooky!! I think a good counter could be Erakul.. To kill all this minions.. Infestors.. :p

 

But erekul' range of casting is shorter than the range of MK and his marines. If he gets close enough he'll definitely get shot by marines and MK. It would be even more disastrous if MK was lvl 6 with a thor. And later when MK has FoE. Erekul has no escape... You need someone with AoE dmg that can target far away like rancor specifically to nuke wherever MK's marines pop up

Link to comment
Share on other sites

rancor, null, unix, rory, grav, drake, shadow, toxi, boros, cow, garamond, cypress, jakk the list goes on and on, but all perfectly capable of one hitting the entire mk, unix, pr bio spawns and thats no where near the entire list.

 

you know, with rancor level 3 nukes, you need 2-3 nukes for late game unix minions.

rory? are you serious? :D with molo or rebounder???

 

really, if you kill the minions, they are back in 3 seconds.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

rancor, null, unix, rory, grav, drake, shadow, toxi, boros, cow, garamond, cypress, jakk the list goes on and on, but all perfectly capable of one hitting the entire mk, unix, pr bio spawns and thats no where near the entire list.

lol, gl with that... I see shadow coming in middle of minions to shade them all... it would be pretty dead shadow. Anyway:

-rancor - nukes has very long cd and can't one shot anything

-null - easy to dodge

-unix - he is in opposite team

-rory - excuse me?

-grav - don't think so, long cd

-drake - and burn to death

-toxi - long cd

-boros - he would die very fast

-cow - long cd, high mana cost

-cypress - has to be very close, way to squishy

 

jakk, garamond - they would make some difference, maybe.

 

Besides most of your 'counters' requires minions to be not spread out - maybe may happen on low level pubs. Even if u are able to kill some group they would appear again in next few seconds while u would be on cooldown...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

-cypress - has to be very close, way to squishy

 

Besides most of your 'counters' requires minions to be not spread out - maybe may happen on low level pubs. Even if u are able to kill some group they would appear again in next few seconds while u would be on cooldown...

 

Wat? How is properly built Cyprus squishy?

Also on a proper cyp cd is almost non existant.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I never meet tanky Cyprus before 20 minute mark... his cd is very low but AoE is too small to make any difference.

 

To make it more clear. I'm not talking about random pubs or mirror matches. Finally I'm not talking about late game but about early-mid game. At that point pushers start to roll and get your towers one by one and u can nothing about it unless u have some good pushers in team as well. If u do then team with MK in their composition wins...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ahhahahahhaha ;) OMG!! Zero and energy you must fusion and make a team for the tourney.. I think boom, Yaldi are alone as well.. ;)

 

how do you come to this conclusion? :D

 

anyway, i would really like to take part in the tournament, but there are two reasons to not do it:

 

1. at the EU tournament, my team broke up after the first game, and i was teamless, and therefore out

 

2. i am writing some other important exams in the next weeks, so i will focus on these. next tourney we will do a team guz, you scrub :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

how do you come to this conclusion? :D

 

anyway, i would really like to take part in the tournament, but there are two reasons to not do it:

 

1. at the EU tournament, my team broke up after the first game, and i was teamless, and therefore out

 

2. i am writing some other important exams in the next weeks, so i will focus on these. next tourney we will do a team guz, you scrub :D

 

:((((((((((( But I will play as much as I can. If I'm on a team I won't leave meaning once the tourney starts that is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

you know, with rancor level 3 nukes, you need 2-3 nukes for late game unix minions.

rory? are you serious? :D with molo or rebounder???

 

really, if you kill the minions, they are back in 3 seconds.

 

 

One int item on rory will wipe the entire spawn with a rebounder.

Unix's marines have what 580 hp with 50% resist at lvl 18? An int built raynor will do that in 1-2 nukes and take the whole creep wave ontop of that.

As for being back in 3 seconds, If your consistently killing the marines from mk their not going to be back in 3 seconds, Unix has relatively low spamability until cdr works with skills with charges (unless I missed that int he update log)

 

lol, gl with that... I see shadow coming in middle of minions to shade them all... it would be pretty dead shadow. Anyway:

-rancor - nukes has very long cd and can't one shot anything

-null - easy to dodge

-unix - he is in opposite team

-rory - excuse me?

-grav - don't think so, long cd

-drake - and burn to death

-toxi - long cd

-boros - he would die very fast

-cow - long cd, high mana cost

-cypress - has to be very close, way to squishy

 

jakk, garamond - they would make some difference, maybe.

 

Besides most of your 'counters' requires minions to be not spread out - maybe may happen on low level pubs. Even if u are able to kill some group they would appear again in next few seconds while u would be on cooldown...

 

Shadow, pop shade minions dead, proceed to kill hero if you cant kill you can simply vortex and walk away.

 

If you cant kill minions with rancors nukes your clearly doing something wrong I suggest you not play rancor.

 

If your dodging nulls swords your not doing damage, and his stuns are more than capable of adding sufficient dmg.

 

I don't recall any rule saying you cant have the same hero as someone on the same team...

 

Rory, rebounder rapes spawns fairly easily

 

Grav you may have a point there I dont know its dmg off the top of my head, but coupled with anyone else doing anything buh bye wave

 

If your drake gets raped by minions I suggest you rebuild your drake, you should have thousands of health high resist and high armour in addition to putting out a hundred pluss dmg per second in a decent aoe

 

Toxis cd for his q is what 4 seconds higher than most of the spawn skills?

 

Indeed boros could die very fast in such a scenario, But then again invisibility is pretty useful on him these days isn't it?

 

Cow has 2 seperate skills which will destroy spawns, cd is hardly an issue.

 

Cypress has to be within about 5 range to kill the minions and can escape against any of the "super pushers" nearly instantly not exactly alot of danger there.

 

Then of course you can throw an explosive retrofit on any AA hero and go to town.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

nah i wasn't talkin about you leavin. and ofc you are welcome to the scrub team :D

 

Soooo who is on your team then? :D

 

One int item on rory will wipe the entire spawn with a rebounder.

Unix's marines have what 580 hp with 50% resist at lvl 18? An int built raynor will do that in 1-2 nukes and take the whole creep wave ontop of that.

As for being back in 3 seconds, If your consistently killing the marines from mk their not going to be back in 3 seconds, Unix has relatively low spamability until cdr works with skills with charges (unless I missed that int he update log)

 

 

 

Shadow, pop shade minions dead, proceed to kill hero if you cant kill you can simply vortex and walk away.

 

If you cant kill minions with rancors nukes your clearly doing something wrong I suggest you not play rancor.

 

If your dodging nulls swords your not doing damage, and his stuns are more than capable of adding sufficient dmg.

 

I don't recall any rule saying you cant have the same hero as someone on the same team...

 

Rory, rebounder rapes spawns fairly easily

 

Grav you may have a point there I dont know its dmg off the top of my head, but coupled with anyone else doing anything buh bye wave

 

If your drake gets raped by minions I suggest you rebuild your drake, you should have thousands of health high resist and high armour in addition to putting out a hundred pluss dmg per second in a decent aoe

 

Toxis cd for his q is what 4 seconds higher than most of the spawn skills?

 

Indeed boros could die very fast in such a scenario, But then again invisibility is pretty useful on him these days isn't it?

 

Cow has 2 seperate skills which will destroy spawns, cd is hardly an issue.

 

Cypress has to be within about 5 range to kill the minions and can escape against any of the "super pushers" nearly instantly not exactly alot of danger there.

 

Then of course you can throw an explosive retrofit on any AA hero and go to town.

 

I think the majority of the time most of these heroes' CD are too long to consistently affect the minions or get into danger trying to kill them. Rory, Rancor, maybe Grav's throw (more like a waste of a throw), cow can be safe. I would still think Cyprus has to get too close to comfort (his range of QW might be short enough that he takes dmg) he can blink away of course but once he uses his blink and gets intercepted GG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ive actually played against pusher, and ive played a pusher, and if youre playing against a pusher, i find dustin to be one of the best counter pusher since he can nuke at a safe distance, also the thing about pusher is that if you cant kill t3 the enemy can just farm, and pushers late game are not very good, especially MK, my advice is have 1-2 late game carry.

ps, just sac your lane if theyre pushing it very hard, you wont be able to get exp and money

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One int item on rory will wipe the entire spawn with a rebounder.

Unix's marines have what 580 hp with 50% resist at lvl 18? An int built raynor will do that in 1-2 nukes and take the whole creep wave ontop of that.

As for being back in 3 seconds, If your consistently killing the marines from mk their not going to be back in 3 seconds, Unix has relatively low spamability until cdr works with skills with charges (unless I missed that int he update log)

 

 

 

Shadow, pop shade minions dead, proceed to kill hero if you cant kill you can simply vortex and walk away.

 

If you cant kill minions with rancors nukes your clearly doing something wrong I suggest you not play rancor.

 

If your dodging nulls swords your not doing damage, and his stuns are more than capable of adding sufficient dmg.

 

I don't recall any rule saying you cant have the same hero as someone on the same team...

 

Rory, rebounder rapes spawns fairly easily

 

Grav you may have a point there I dont know its dmg off the top of my head, but coupled with anyone else doing anything buh bye wave

 

If your drake gets raped by minions I suggest you rebuild your drake, you should have thousands of health high resist and high armour in addition to putting out a hundred pluss dmg per second in a decent aoe

 

Toxis cd for his q is what 4 seconds higher than most of the spawn skills?

 

Indeed boros could die very fast in such a scenario, But then again invisibility is pretty useful on him these days isn't it?

 

Cow has 2 seperate skills which will destroy spawns, cd is hardly an issue.

 

Cypress has to be within about 5 range to kill the minions and can escape against any of the "super pushers" nearly instantly not exactly alot of danger there.

 

Then of course you can throw an explosive retrofit on any AA hero and go to town.

As I said in my previous post I'm not talking about pub games but about inhouses, so no, u can't have same heroes in both teams. Check out oncoming tournament rules to be more clear about that. Btw. Null is auto banned anyway. Most of your statements are just wrong because of 2 main issues with your 'strategy':

- u can't constantly wipe enemy minions because u will found yourself out of mana very quickly. We are talking about early-mid game when mana pool is low and AoE abilities isn't very strong

- u can't just go on close distance to minions and overexpose yourself like that because there wouldn't be minions only but entire enemy team. In other words u get focused and killed very quickly

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The current tournament belive it or not is not the end all or even the standard norm of what we play ih or pubs.

 

At the point where mana is low, the summoners have the exact same issue, their summons dmg output is lower their hp is lower, and they too have limited mana.

 

Your engaging near or at your own tower where the spawns are an issue. If your over extending by your own tower your team needs to pay attention a bit more, or you need to accept the team having decided that sacrificing a tower there was a viable decision for whatever reason ie levi a gank their own push ect.

 

Most of these skills I mentioned, which was merely an offhand list of abilities that utterly dominate summons can also be used at near maximum attack range for most heroes ie not close distance like you suggest.

 

If your engaging as a team which you should be in the tournament setting which you seem to be basing this off of, all standard tactics for disabling a caster apply perfectly well to summoners, either kill them or use CC.

 

Pushing is hardly overpowered without a team wipe at this point in AOS.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yesterday match between EU and NA:

 

NA Team: Cyprus, Rancor, Vergil, Drake, Kerrigan

EU Team: King, Bio, Tosh, Toxi, Erekul

 

So basically every hero from NA had some abilities to kill minions and stop enemy push. Check out at the stream http://no.twitch.tv/shablagooo/b/333360993 (maybe there is already replay posted on the forum) how it worked. Then u will find out that your theory crafting has nothing common with practice. Pushers are OP because only viable counter to them are other pushers. And please, don't even try to continue forcing your arguments because u have nothing to prove them besides pure theory...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yesterday match between EU and NA:

 

NA Team: Cyprus, Rancor, Vergil, Drake, Kerrigan

EU Team: King, Bio, Tosh, Toxi, Erekul

 

So basically every hero from NA had some abilities to kill minions and stop enemy push. Check out at the stream http://no.twitch.tv/...ooo/b/333360993 (maybe there is already replay posted on the forum) how it worked. Then u will find out that your theory crafting has nothing common with practice. Pushers are OP because only viable counter to them are other pushers. And please, don't even try to continue forcing your arguments because u have nothing to prove them besides pure theory...

 

I agree. Even though technically Cyprus and Rancor can kill the minions, in the end the minions will prevail

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...