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Discussion: Best way to balance Null. Disruptor


Jaysi
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So, currently Null is auto banned in NA IH.

 

I also just got wrecked in a pub by a guy using him, despite me playing Vorpal, with 4k hp, with 20%, 18%, 25%, and 15% Spell Resist, Null still owned me. He would taser me, stun me, Sunflare gun me, wrap me up in FF, and Arcane Sword me for all I was worth. Sure I could taser back, but I feel like silencing an opponent should be an option, not a requirement. The guy playing him was good, he was very fast with all of his skills and items, one of the only times I've been extremely annoyed by Null's Force Fields.

 

Now essentially I'm starting this thread to get feedback and ideas on what would balance him out so he's not auto-banned or debatably OP.

 

Here's some ideas.

-Lower damage on spells

-Decrease range on his stun(the shot distance)

-Change his Ultimate to something else(so he's not doing double stuns or double arcane swords or double force fields, despite it being a creative and occasionally skillful ability)

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Hes really not that hard to counter in pubs..... In a team oriented IH it could be more difficult, but pubs is no problem unless hes fed to hell, in which case almost every hero is a monster.

How would you counter him then without using Taser as Vorpal?

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For starters with vorpal id laugh and watch him kill himself on my dmg return then move on, unless he built a tanky null, then I'd laugh absorb the dmg and kill him anyway once tazer wore off. All assuming he jumps you, but if you initiate you go in with a stun blow your skills just like always in one big ulti warp burst and finish off with any necessary auto attacks.

 

The counter to being tazered no matter who your vsing unless you've got an extreme AA hero such as nova or shadow is to gank them, or make them spend their tazer and break off then reengage after its over, Or pop protect/paralax.

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I suggested yesterday on Mumble that his forcefields should have hitpoints. This is similar to the Oracle's abilities to cast the little forcefields on minerals. Maybe 1000 or 2000 hitpoints per forcefields used. This would force your team to help you avoid being trapped for too long. Or maybe even less hit points. Because this would substantially weaken it, I would say that forcefields DO NOT have priority when you're autoattacking. The forcefields need to be individually focus fired when clicked on. I think this would stop the forcefields from doing too much, but not make it completely useless. But this applies only to team fights not a 1v1

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I suggested yesterday on Mumble that his forcefields should have hitpoints. This is similar to the Oracle's abilities to cast the little forcefields on minerals. Maybe 1000 or 2000 hitpoints per forcefields used. This would force your team to help you avoid being trapped for too long. Or maybe even less hit points. Because this would substantially weaken it, I would say that forcefields DO NOT have priority when you're autoattacking. The forcefields need to be individually focus fired when clicked on. I think this would stop the forcefields from doing too much, but not make it completely useless. But this applies only to team fights not a 1v1

If this were to be implemented, I think a better idea would be a set amount of hits per forcefield, not a set amount of HP.
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If this were to be implemented, I think a better idea would be a set amount of hits per forcefield, not a set amount of HP.

 

That's a good idea, it would give casters an opportunity to remove ff's without burning a spell. Forcefields are naturally more effective against melee heroes, but most melee heroes are AA heroes (except drake and micro, but micro doesn't care and drake can use the opportunity to pull null into the forcefield bubble. ^^

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Sure I could taser back, but I feel like silencing an opponent should be an option, not a requirement.

 

It is optional... your options are silence him or die. That being said, if you have the choice of having a stack of 5 pancakes and a single pancake... why would you ever go for the lesser option? Moreover, why would you acknowledge the better option, then complain because you didn't take it? You essentially answered your own question; use the goddamn tazer. Also, keep in mind how spell resist stacks; your 20%, 18%, 25%, and 15% add up to 58% resist, not 78% So expect to be taking 42% damage rather than 22%. Another thing to keep in mind is that Dark Matter reflects the pre-mitigation damage but the amount drops off outside of a range of 3.3; get up in his grill. Parallax is a good option as is SHC.

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It is optional... your options are silence him or die. That being said, if you have the choice of having a stack of 5 pancakes and a single pancake... why would you ever go for the lesser option? Moreover, why would you acknowledge the better option, then complain because you didn't take it? You essentially answered your own question; use the goddamn tazer. Also, keep in mind how spell resist stacks; your 20%, 18%, 25%, and 15% add up to 58% resist, not 78% So expect to be taking 42% damage rather than 22%. Another thing to keep in mind is that Dark Matter reflects the pre-mitigation damage but the amount drops off outside of a range of 3.3; get up in his grill. Parallax is a good option as is SHC.

 

Yes, I realize the spell resist doesn't stack, which is why I listed it out individually ;D but that's a lot lower than I believed it to be... I still think the being required to taser is silly... I tried to get close for Dark Matter but then that just makes it easier for him to stun and taser and SFG. Also I had a Parallax and SHC could've have been useful but no monies... and I didnt have any DPS items yet at the time... As well as him constantly having creep wave advantage so I couldn't javelin and not much for team mate help. So I was set up to fail...

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My personal take, a null gets too big of an advantage in the laning phase. Before lvl 6 he can easily clear an entire wave himself. And unless you can successfully harass him (which is tough cause he has soo much CC and very strong early AA), he farms much faster than most. I think if you tone down his laning abilities (say 50% ability damage versus creeps) he would be much more balanced.

 

Another thought, not sure why his Q shoots 3 missles with aoe damage. This is quite powerful for last hitting creep waves. Seems like it should be one or the other. Make it aoe damage or 3 shots.

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Sure taser and warp shards are good against null. They are good against every hero. That is not a viable argument to deal with the balance of null.

 

But isn't that how you fight against AA heroes? Like against nova you get Shrapnel Cloak

 

Then against shadow and zeratul and boros you get mantle. barbed and chilling or dst?

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The fact that there are counters, does not mean that something is balanced. For an outrageous example, a new hero comes out that does 9999 damage with his ultiimate to every hero. Taser counters him, so that means he is balanced? Null is a strong hero for multiple reasons some aspect probably has to be toned down.

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  • 3 weeks later...

The Reason why null is so strong is because his final. Notice that at Lv1 final, he basicly deals +100% Spell damage, but at Lv11 and 16, it doesnt really do anything except increase the duration (and most times enemy escapes or is dead in 15 seconds).

Null's final Lv1 deals same damage as Lv2.

Good way to tone him down is keep him nearly the same Except make his final - The Mirror image deal a fraction of the damage.- Lv1 = 60% Spell damage on Mirror, Lv2 = 80% and lv3 = 100%. (Lower or higher on lv 1 and 2 depending on testings).

Null is nearly the same in my opinion in late game battles, its just his early game thats strong. Heros with a strong early game tend to get items, and higher level making them strong Mid game and Semi-Late game.

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I like justenergys and itsthatguys ideas

 

Personally I think that nulls ffs should be smaller, that way it takes more skill to trap ppl, and nulls can't just random spam and still get a trap. Null is still strong, but requires more skill.

 

Also I think q and e range reduced by 1, although small nerf, will force null to get closer for his double swords, making him sort of high risk high return that new users will have trouble with. Q nerf because I compare it to rancors stun thing so they should be aprox same usefulness ( don't quote me on this).

 

I don't know about ih but I think this would be enough to balance pubs

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