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The state of IH in NA


RaKuRa

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I do not know if it is just me, but I find the current state of the IH games in NA incredibly frustrating and unfulfilling. The quality of the games have been watered down and the amount of "herp derping" is unbelievable. In my mind there is one big reason (and one small irritating one).

 

Major Reason. New(b) members of the mumble community that also do not have sufficient AoS experience for an IH game.

 

Minor Reason (but more annoying). Some players from Sotis that decide to reemerge in AoS just herp derp (unfortunately that is the proper term) like no other.

 

Let me elaborate on the Major point only. To summarize the wall of text that will follow I suggest that n00b players are destroying what needs to be and is designed to be a high level gaming experience, and that it will be better for them to train in Pubs for couple/several months before joining Mumble, whereas the Mumble community should proactively seek to attract (not just any) but the good Pub players they encounter in Pubs.

 

 

Wall of text:

 

Major Reason - New(b) Members. I understand that having more and engaged members is healthy for AoS (achieved through Forum and Mumble IH games). I understand that Mumble also is a way to attract and retain them in the community. Yet, I also believe that having high level IH experience is cruscial for AoS, and that sees to happen less and less in my experience.

 

In the old (SOTIS) forum there was a Mumble thread saying that it is highly recommended that palyers considering joining IH should have mastered at least 3 heroes (also implying playing a lot im pubs in the process). Yet, many of the new players that have joined recently seem to have either started from scratch or have minimal experience. So the game that they are in are of significantly lower quality. (And no, trying to balance with a n00b on each side does not negate the effecet, as balance =/= quality).

 

What adds even more insult to the injury (injury being frustratingly low quality of IH) is that some of that new(b) players (due to their particular personality) like to "take charge", give commands or advice in their ignorant confidence with an incredible amount of authority.

 

Couple of examples of the above (just from yesterday):

 

1. It wass suggested by a team member that as I Rancor I am a n00b for not going around cloaked trying to spy on the enemy Dustin and Drake that were in our lane (holy shap). Another teammember in the same game (our captain) was comfortably sitting buried as Bio under the enemy team (enemy Dustin sitting there too) thinking he is so clever and wanting to surprise them (and that was not even a new member of the IH community). [if you read this and do not understand what is wrong with those instances above ... please stop playing IH and practice with pubs and different heroes]

 

2. Another example with a player whose name I have seen in the Mumble community before (not new) that is still a n00b, but boy try to suggest to him that what he is doing does not make sense. For example, he would try to kill Thor creep in short lane beginning of game (with 600 HP Zera) than go back to base heal and tp to tower after first wave is gone (practically losing money and xp in the process) and did not understand what difference it makes to kill Firebath than Thor first. Or that would play Cyprus but avoid using his teleport (E) offensively (needless to say he is completely useless in games). But if you try to suggest it to him that he is not doing something correctly ... boy the attitude you gonna get...

 

So what I am suggesting is for the Mumble community to try to preserve the quality of highly competitive well organized IH games, and undedrstand that adding n00b players, and teach them over several months how to play 1 or 2 heroes, doesn't really add to IH community but potentially takes away, and those "high quality" games are reduced to whoever team happens to have one of the good IH players for a carry or just reduces them to a 5v5 pub quality games. I think mumble community should try to reach out to the more experience Pub players and encourage them more proactively to join Mumble than to babysit the development of completely new players and herp-derpers.

 

To the n00b players that I refer to I belive, given the state of their game, they should enjoy and find Pubs challenging enough, until they reach a point that if they play their 3 main heroes the enemy team is likely to rq. At that point I think they will be valuable members of the Mumble IH community. And playing Pubs is far more efficient at first to learn the game (as you dont have to wait 1-2 hours for an IH game) and you will experience many unique situtaions that you wont in an Ih (1v3, 1v4, 2v5, etc).

 

To summarize adding n00b players to Mumber is not beneficial to them or to the Mumble community and I believe it has the potential to destroy it. I think Mumble community should try to attract pro Pub players and not encourage just any n00b to join (think of your favorite professional sports team adding n00bs ... it defeats the purpose of the whole thing).

 

P.S. And no 2 n00b captains does not balance the picks (it just makes their efefctiveness random)

P.S.S. And yes I get particularly frustrated since I do not enjoy playing carries and prefer more weird heroes which are generally support. So when our carries are complete n00bs with an attitude of pros ... and suck ... I get particularly frustrated. (And no Darpa is not a carry just a strong AGI hero).

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heh There's a reason I was waiting after my return to starcraft to rejoin mumble... but then playing pubs I was getting reached out telling me I should join mumble despite the fact that my game is still nowhere near the standards I was used to playing at and seeing in IH, only to be told my current crappy lvl is far better than what they frequently see in IH.

 

Frankly its just disappointing to me at least and it seems from this thread I'm not the only one with such an opinion.

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The advent of "free pick" encourages people to be shap at most heroes. The tournament will show them just how wrong they are.

 

The advent of "free pick" came about, I believe, as the level of captians went down (as every n00b nowadays wants to captain to ensure he plays) also meaning that team comp is unfeasible due to lack of understanding anyway, and at that point many things start to follow (including "free pick") that bring down the level of the IH.

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Looks like a good thread to quote my post.

 

 

Ah I remember the days when Shab used to make in-houses for newbs. He was one of the less popular players back then (2.0 I think) and he was quite overwhelmed with the level of skill in a normal in-house so he decided to make his own in-house and invite new ppl who would like to play in an organized environment (no leavers) but not in a competitive one (you get raged at when u fail).

 

All I see nowadays is QQ and more QQ from ppl. Why don't u take the initiative and organize your own in-house with new players like yourself? I mean, you cry about being rejected by the in-house community but makes absolutely no effort to join it in any way. You know how I got into in-house games? I was playing in a pub and met Moos (super old school guy), he saw that I was above average and told me about in-house. At first, when I was invited to a game (I say this because most of the time I wasn't even invited when they have enough player but I was more than happy whenever they invited me and if I was in a pub game, I would leave instantly), I was always last pick and guess what, I failed and got raged at pretty bad. But that didn't deter me from playing in-house. I took the advice in the raging and improved myself as a player until I would be invited every time they make in-house. Even then, most of the time I would still be last pick but sometimes I would be second or third to last pick because one of the players who captain a lot in those days (IamCatz) liked me very much as a person/player. I kept on playing, learning from others, watching replays, spectating games, thinking about how I could have done better in some games until I was 8th pick, 7th pick, 6th pick, 5th pick, 4th pick, 3rd pick, 2nd pick and eventually the usual first pick. There were a lot of talented players in my era and I know that mechanically the top 5 players were probably of the same skill level. I know for a fact that I could never farm as good as John, deny as good as Brew/Soed, be creative in strategy as Shab, play Zeratul as good as Pumathenew user (so PumatheN00b got filtered to the new user lol @ this website's language filter =)) ) but I was good at everything. I suppose I became first pick because I win games. And ironically by raging at ppl. I can tell you that more than half the community hated me because I raged at them pretty bad in some games but I know that they respected me. Because deep inside they know that I was right and they played bad. Its just that raging is not the best way to give ppl advice. I know its not good but its hard to change who I am. I am a competitive person by nature and it baffles me when ppl just don't improve and make the same mistakes over and over again.

 

You see this is not the story about ZOMG IM THE BEST INHOUSER BOW B4 ME!!! but rather the story about the mentality with which you should approach in-house games. I realize that we are different ppl and thus have different personalities but rather than being a spoiled kid who whines at every shap life throws at u, be an adult and accept that life is not the pinky rainbow ppl tell u. If you fail ppl will get mad. If you fail and show that your willing to improve, ppl will give u advice and let you play with them (I know this is a shocker to some ppl but try it). If you fail and show your willing to improve but still fail eventually, just know your bad and do other things that your good at. Or u can just keep playing pubs.

 

 

Ikr, elitism at its best.

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I agree with EVERYTHING Rakura has to say about this. I Started pubbing for a while until people asked me to join the mumble community in terms of inhouses. Sure I found out playing pub style in inhouses is totally different in my first 2-3 games in mumble but I quickly adapted to the new standards and guidelines.

 

 

I hate to be captain but what is more annoying i top tier 1-2 people whom are avaialble to play, that dont captain up. When 15 minutes pass by where no one captains, I force myself to captian to get a game going. I think there should be a new rule where only top tiers can captain, and if none are available, all MUST agree to the 2 "n00bs" to captain inorder to get a game going.

 

 

Its simple, if you good players cant captain up, dont rage about how your team is imba. You could of fixed it earlier.

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Seriously all you ppl defending n00bs and pubstars need to get a grip. I mean I don't even play the game anymore but this shap happened in my era as well and I understand how they feel lol. Nothing is more frustrating than having a complete nub in ur team when ur playing to win

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Seriously all you ppl defending n00bs and pubstars need to get a grip. I mean I don't even play the game anymore but this shap happened in my era as well and I understand how they feel lol. Nothing is more frustrating than having a complete nub in ur team when ur playing to win

 

Theres a difference between getting a grip than also where there are NO games, because GOOD players cant catch some balls to captain up. I mean its so easy to prevent this issue. Two good people captain up so the n00bs dont. When they say they want to explain that the good players have to captain up.

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Seriously all you ppl defending n00bs and pubstars need to get a grip. I mean I don't even play the game anymore but this shap happened in my era as well and I understand how they feel lol. Nothing is more frustrating than having a complete nub in ur team when ur playing to win

 

What's wrong with pubstars? Pubstars aren't new users, and some are better than people who are considered "mumblers/inhousers." I believe there is a big differentiation between the two terms. Either way I agree with Gyro that some of the top tier players don't captain. I have the feeling that some of them enjoy the fact that they are picked first. It's some sort of self satisfactory way of feeling good about yourself as some sort of redeeming order to fulfill some void in your life. I think I'm decent but it's annoying when people don't captain as I have been captain the last couple of games I played because there are 15 people in a channel but not playing a game.

 

In any case I also agree with Rakura. I think some of the games I've played recently have been entirely one sided. There hasn't been a close game I have played or at least one I remember. But now that I can only play on the weekends and maybe 1 game per night on a week day, my perspective might not be entirely accurate. A rough approximation: about 1/4, 1/5 or 2/5 inhouse games I played on mumble were "quality games" that were close and competitive.

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Its really a matter of apathy more than anything else. The scene is not as competitively minded as it used to be, and the better players are often split up playing other MOBAs. Moreover, the game is constantly being tweaked and altered (often to undo or re-balance some retarded change that was ill-conceived: Hurray for the totally inefficient and ineffective balancing process championed by the one and only RedHydra), forcing inherently more casual beta test games.

 

While I think that it would be great if new/bad/learning players would organize their own games, they generally do not know others well enough or have the confidence to take such an initiative. Mumble vets could definitely take a more active roll in facilitating lower tier IH games I think.

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There are ways you guys can fix these problems to make IH more popular than ever, but you keep on avoiding the truths about why IH is becoming less and less popular (as if it was ever popular anyways) and then as a result come up with gimmicky reasons as to how to get more people to play IH.

 

Some of you have taken the initiative to actually have an objective ranking system which is of course a start, but how you actually use the ranking system in a useful way to increase the popularity of your IH games remains to be seen.

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I am a n00b. Ask anyone : P. I feel like Rakura is right in a lo of things, like how frustrating it is to be told what you're doing is wrong by other n00bs or even good players, but you have to realize: IH and Pubs or two completely different games. I like the idea of "N00b only" practice sessions and have done pub stomps like that.

 

I remember one time I was in a pubstomp with 3 other n00bs and Gyro. We lost because we were all derping around with new heroes (except gyro). He flipped shap. We were trying to get better, with a more experienced player to tell us what to fix, but instead he just raged at us called us retarded. That's not what this game is for. Yeah play competitively, but don't get in the way of possible freindships. Gyro apologized after the game, and helped me out with my Toxi build, which was what I wanted in the first place.

 

The arrogant n00bs are filth. We can all agree on that, but the ones actually trying to learn shouldn't be thrown to shap with them!

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Start hosting unranked and unrecorded IH matches so people don't rage when they have a new user team mate and everyone can learn and have fun. With all these rankings and screen shots always being sent in you pressure people into having to play amazingly and rage at people that arn't.

 

Just my 2 cents about people raging at team mates or new users.

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The point about top tier players not captaining doesn't need to be an issue, as I've added a team selection tool to the rankings. Some of the initial teams will be imbalanced, but that will quickly revert if people actually use the tool, as the rankings will adjust to compensate for players who are currently over- or underrated.

 

In response to the original post, I will say that I don't mind playing IH games with newer players who listen and adjust their gameplay accordingly. In my mind, the inclusion of those players adds a new dimension to IH games, as the veterans who are more effective in teaching their newer players will usually win (assuming teams are balanced with one newer player on each team). That said, I can completely sympathize with RaKuRa's frustration with the poor players who are arrogant (both new and old). Nobody likes to play with an arrogant n00b.

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ive been pubbing aos since beggining of sotis and now finnaly decided to join a week ago..ive only played 3 IH games and since im new (only to mumble) i dont often get picked which i completely understand and dont mind,but my teams did bad(including me because i beleive blaming ONE person is just absurd unless they are like 0-20) i have won one IH game and lost 2 so far,and since im new im praboly labeled as bad and less likely to be picked again,but guys that have been around for a while (adamntium,whaletits aellectrics,etc,etc can do horrible but still be picked easily just because they are friends with everyone,which i also understand) but one thing i dont understand is why a few IH games label a new guy as bad...i mean cmon pubs are wayyy diffrent than IH,and less games i get picked for IH the less practice i would get playing IH.thus not getting better,(just stating general knowledge)..no matter how many pubs you play it honestly wont help with playing better in IH(except maybe for set builds for heroes and practicing them) but other than that pubs dont use teamwork at all and are pretty ridicilous(which is why i started to IH)but IH uses faster communication,teamwork and overall better people which may take awhile for new IH people like me.

 

my overrall statement is that mumble is so intimidating for new players that feel pressured to go godlike to even be noticed in IH or picked most games and if you dont have alot of mumble friends than your most likely the problem no matter how bad or good you do, because its way easier to yell at a new guy that you dont even know than your friend

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ive been pubbing aos since beggining of sotis and now finnaly decided to join a week ago..ive only played 3 IH games and since im new (only to mumble) i dont often get picked which i completely understand and dont mind,but my teams did bad(including me because i beleive blaming ONE person is just absurd unless they are like 0-20) i have won one IH game and lost 2 so far,and since im new im praboly labeled as bad and less likely to be picked again,but guys that have been around for a while (adamntium,whaletits aellectrics,etc,etc can do horrible but still be picked easily just because they are friends with everyone,which i also understand) but one thing i dont understand is why a few IH games label a new guy as bad...i mean cmon pubs are wayyy diffrent than IH,and less games i get picked for IH the less practice i would get playing IH.thus not getting better,(just stating general knowledge)..no matter how many pubs you play it honestly wont help with playing better in IH(except maybe for set builds for heroes and practicing them) but other than that pubs dont use teamwork at all and are pretty ridicilous(which is why i started to IH)but IH uses faster communication,teamwork and overall better people which may take awhile for new IH people like me.

 

my overrall statement is that mumble is so intimidating for new players that feel pressured to go godlike to even be noticed in IH or picked most games and if you dont have alot of mumble friends than your most likely the problem no matter how bad or good you do, because its way easier to yell at a new guy that you dont even know than your friend

Because you are rated on consistency, if you're new, and you do bad in 5/6 games, people will remember that, and they will assume you're bad. If you however do very well in one game, good captains will recognize that, and try to pick you and recreate the scenario in which you did good in. I can only imagine how it is to be new to the scene (mumble) and get into the game now, back when I got into inhouse it was like an underground community, where players who got invited was only people who were spotted by other inhousers in pubs. If they were good, they would receive a pm (this was before chat channels) from someone in the community when there was inhouses going, asking if they wanted to join. Obviously being new to that community also meant that you were last pick, and I remember I felt pressured to do really well, but then again, I did fairly well in my first couple of games, so I got accepted immediately, but then I had some bad games and almost quit the game for being raged at, rofl. But the guy raging at me apologized, and I decided to give it a 2nd chance. But I guess it was easier getting into inhouses back then, because we picked from a lobby of 10 players, not on mumble, and if there weren't enough people, they would invite the worse players like myself, and I would be ensured a spot, I didn't really have to actively search for inhouse games, they would let me know when there was a spot for me.
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ive been pubbing aos since beggining of sotis and now finnaly decided to join a week ago..ive only played 3 IH games and since im new (only to mumble) i dont often get picked which i completely understand and dont mind,but my teams did bad(including me because i beleive blaming ONE person is just absurd unless they are like 0-20) i have won one IH game and lost 2 so far,and since im new im praboly labeled as bad and less likely to be picked again,but guys that have been around for a while (adamntium,whaletits aellectrics,etc,etc can do horrible but still be picked easily just because they are friends with everyone,which i also understand) but one thing i dont understand is why a few IH games label a new guy as bad...i mean cmon pubs are wayyy diffrent than IH,and less games i get picked for IH the less practice i would get playing IH.thus not getting better,(just stating general knowledge)..no matter how many pubs you play it honestly wont help with playing better in IH(except maybe for set builds for heroes and practicing them) but other than that pubs dont use teamwork at all and are pretty ridicilous(which is why i started to IH)but IH uses faster communication,teamwork and overall better people which may take awhile for new IH people like me.

 

my overrall statement is that mumble is so intimidating for new players that feel pressured to go godlike to even be noticed in IH or picked most games and if you dont have alot of mumble friends than your most likely the problem no matter how bad or good you do, because its way easier to yell at a new guy that you dont even know than your friend

 

 

I'll tell you my secret for inhouses and pubs.

I always join a pub game now. But I monitor Mumble so I can say I'm able to play an inhouse. If I don't get picked then oh well. If I do get picked then flob PUBS I"M GONNA PLAY IH.

 

This is only true if you can give a rat's ass about your rating lol

 

Anyways like Shab I played my best hero, Rory, I did well for the first 4-5 games I played using mostly Rory/Raynor. I surprisingly didn't die as much as I usually do hahaha and I play decent support heroes now :D

 

My story of succes although I still don't get picked every single game either. So no hard feelings :D I just go into pubs to learn more heroes and diversify the heroes I can use. I think I can at least play maybe half of heroes now. But always know that trying something in pubs isn't always going to work in inhouse. So another tip: play your best flobing hero so you can let everyone know at least you can play one hero

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Be nice if we could just institute some kind of matchmaking for IH(I remember someone posted a thread about streamlining the system for bans and team picking), could use the ranking system to to place the players once we had enough, wouldn't need captains, or to pick who plays, just the first 10 people who were in. But alas, we have to deal with SC2's arcade...

 

Would eventually get evenish teams and wouldn't have to worry about who gets picked or who never gets to play. I'd like it also because I hate playing a pub game listening to Mumble waiting for an IH to come up... So I usually just log off Mumble after the first 5 minutes I get on.

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Be nice if we could just institute some kind of matchmaking for IH(I remember someone posted a thread about streamlining the system for bans and team picking), could use the ranking system to to place the players once we had enough, wouldn't need captains, or to pick who plays, just the first 10 people who were in. But alas, we have to deal with SC2's arcade...

 

Would eventually get evenish teams and wouldn't have to worry about who gets picked or who never gets to play. I'd like it also because I hate playing a pub game listening to Mumble waiting for an IH to come up... So I usually just log off Mumble after the first 5 minutes I get on.

 

That is exactly what we are trying to do in NA. Tukey is leading the charge

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Few things I felt that I have to point it out after reading your post.

 

1. High quality In House game does exist; however, there are not going to be 10 experienced players online 24/7. On the off-peak time, for example, weekday after 3 AM EST, it is hard to even get enough of people to start an In House. You have to expect and play with people that's less experienced or else not to play.

 

2. When the situation that you described happened, what action you took? If it is a clearly wrong doing by other player, with proper reasoning, they will understand. This applies to both situations that you listed. If you tell your teammate that you're unable to scout as Ranor when enemies have Drake and Dustin, they should understand. However, I believe after the patch, it is possible to still scout while clocked cause Dustin's Rocket no longer hits target that's in Fog of War.

 

You already have the best communicate tool possible named Mumble and still not able to get your teammate on track? That surprised me a bit.

 

3. DARPA is always a carry since 4.0. (after the rework from his first generation AKA troll DARPA mines)

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